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Oakland Temple - No More Endowment Rooms

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7 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

In the scriptural sense, “peculiar” does not mean strange or weird. It means treasured. 

But I’m guessing you knew that already. 

That and a tad not like everyone else. 😊

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6 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

That and a tad not like everyone else. 😊

If being peculiar means that I try to follow God, I’ll gladly accept that as a descriptor.

Edited by Scott Lloyd
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5 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

If being peculiar means that I try to follow God, I’ll gladly accept that as a descriptor.

This is the first time I remember hearing it used in reference to members....

”When we join the Church and receive the priesthood, we are expected to forsake many of the ways of the world and live as becometh saints. We are no longer to dress or speak or act or even think as others too often do. Many in the world use tea, coffee, tobacco, and liquor, and are involved in the use of drugs. Many profane and are vulgar and indecent, immoral and unclean in their lives, but all these things should be foreign to us. We are the saints of the Most High. We hold the holy priesthood.
To ancient Israel, by the mouth of Moses, the Lord said: “… if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
“And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.” (Ex. 19:5–6.)
This promise is ours also. If we will walk in paths of virtue and holiness, the Lord will pour out his blessings upon us to a degree we have never supposed possible. We shall be in very deed, as Peter expressed it, “a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people.” (1 Pet. 2:9.) And we will be peculiar because we will not be like other people who do not live up to these standards.
To the extent we have overcome the world we are already a holy nation and a peculiar people. But unfortunately there are those among us who have not as yet put first in their lives the things of God’s kingdom and who do not live in harmony with the standards of the Church.

I call upon the Church and all its members to forsake the evils of the world. We must shun unchastity and every form of immorality as we would a plague. We must not dam up the wellsprings of life by preventing childbirth. We must not be guilty of unrighteous and evil acts of abortion.
No member of the Church can be accepted as in good standing whose way of life is one of rebellion against the established order of decency and obedience to law. We cannot be in rebellion against the law and be in harmony with the Lord, for he has commanded us to “be subject to the powers that be, until he reigns whose right it is to reign. …” (D&C 58:22.) And one of these days he is going to come.
As servants of the Lord, our purpose is to walk in the path he has charted for us. We not only desire to do and say what will please him, but we seek so to live that our lives will be like his.”

JF Smith April 1971

Edited by Bernard Gui

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At the Philly temple open house the tour guide also called it the "instruction" room.  I guess they are using the same script?

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19 hours ago, Calm said:

I think it is useful to move away from words that have different meanings for Saints as they do most others.  Not that there is anything wrong with jargon, it can just get in the way of communication if we are all assuming the other means something they don't actually mean.

This. Girlfriend and I fed the missionaries the other day. They showed us a Church-produced video on inviting people to church activities, talks, etc. One thing I noticed was their use of common parlace.

Examples:

”Hey! I’m giving a sermon in my church next week and wanted to invite you.”

Or

”Yeah, we have Bible study every two weeks.”

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9 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

This is the first time I remember hearing it used in reference to members....

”When we join the Church and receive the priesthood, we are expected to forsake many of the ways of the world and live as becometh saints. We are no longer to dress or speak or act or even think as others too often do. Many in the world use tea, coffee, tobacco, and liquor, and are involved in the use of drugs. Many profane and are vulgar and indecent, immoral and unclean in their lives, but all these things should be foreign to us. We are the saints of the Most High. We hold the holy priesthood.
To ancient Israel, by the mouth of Moses, the Lord said: “… if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
“And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.” (Ex. 19:5–6.)
This promise is ours also. If we will walk in paths of virtue and holiness, the Lord will pour out his blessings upon us to a degree we have never supposed possible. We shall be in very deed, as Peter expressed it, “a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people.” (1 Pet. 2:9.) And we will be peculiar because we will not be like other people who do not live up to these standards.
To the extent we have overcome the world we are already a holy nation and a peculiar people. But unfortunately there are those among us who have not as yet put first in their lives the things of God’s kingdom and who do not live in harmony with the standards of the Church.

I call upon the Church and all its members to forsake the evils of the world. We must shun unchastity and every form of immorality as we would a plague. We must not dam up the wellsprings of life by preventing childbirth. We must not be guilty of unrighteous and evil acts of abortion.
No member of the Church can be accepted as in good standing whose way of life is one of rebellion against the established order of decency and obedience to law. We cannot be in rebellion against the law and be in harmony with the Lord, for he has commanded us to “be subject to the powers that be, until he reigns whose right it is to reign. …” (D&C 58:22.) And one of these days he is going to come.
As servants of the Lord, our purpose is to walk in the path he has charted for us. We not only desire to do and say what will please him, but we seek so to live that our lives will be like his.”

JF Smith April 1972

Words that bear repeating. Thank you for repeating them!

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10 hours ago, RevTestament said:

I know you are speaking in a light-hearted vein, but I have to say that IMHO, the English use of the word God is very confused. It gets used for several Hebrew words, and their plural forms: El, Eloah, Elohim.... It seems trinitarians can't really stomach the plural of El, which is Elim, so usually translate that as "the Mighty" instead of gods or Gods.... even Jews try to say it means "palms"....

Be that as it may, there are genuinely a number of different ways to interpret the word "God" when using the Hebrew scriptures. I find the word very inadequate to describe the nature of God.... ;) 

1) Google ¨trinity¨ with ¨elim¨ or ¨elohim¨ or ¨plural names of God¨ and you will see that trinitarians stomach it just fine.
2) How is this statement even necessary, let alone appropriate? MiserereNobis´ comment simply indicated difference, there was no indication of judgment or derision.

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19 hours ago, SettingDogStar said:

Instruction rooms honestly makes more sense. Saying endowment doesn’t mean much to people outside of the faith.

 

19 hours ago, Calm said:

I think it is useful to move away from words that have different meanings for Saints as they do most others.

Why permanently name a part of the temple a public friendly version when the public only get to see it for a week or so? The whole point is to expose people to an LDS Temple, so why water down the LDS-ness? Next to that is the missionary opportunity? Curiosity is generally welcome.

Just not following you guys here. So I thought I´d ask.

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30 minutes ago, halconero said:

This. Girlfriend and I fed the missionaries the other day. They showed us a Church-produced video on inviting people to church activities, talks, etc. One thing I noticed was their use of common parlace.

Examples:

”Hey! I’m giving a sermon in my church next week and wanted to invite you.”

Or

”Yeah, we have Bible study every two weeks.”

These also seem strange. I understand, here and with the room names, wanting to communicate effectively.

But why not ¨scripture study¨ instead of ¨Bible study¨ which claims too much/too little. Why ¨sermon¨ when ¨talk¨ will do?

If the goal is simply effective communication, then, at least for this dialogue, general seems better than loaded specifics.

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25 minutes ago, Joshua Valentine said:

 

Why permanently name a part of the temple a public friendly version when the public only get to see it for a week or so? The whole point is to expose people to an LDS Temple, so why water down the LDS-ness? Next to that is the missionary opportunity? Curiosity is generally welcome.

Just not following you guys here. So I thought I´d ask.

Well I think it's because it really doesn't matter much what we call it. The endowment, at least temple wise, consists of initiatories to at least passing through the veil (or depending on what you think, sealings.) So calling one room the "endowment room" doesn't really make sense anyways because only a portion of the blessings/knowledge is bestowed there. We really only receive instruction in those rooms anyways and only use that knowledge at the very end. 

On another note, and this is pure opinion, not much of an actually endowment of power (which is where the name given to the "Endowment" rooms actually came from) actually occurs in the temple during the session. If each session had frequent outward expressions of Gods presence, like the cloud of glory, fire from heaven, angels, visions, dreams, tongues, or the opening of the heavens then that room would perhaps warrant the name. However these gifts are usually given in private much later. 

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1 hour ago, halconero said:

This. Girlfriend and I fed the missionaries the other day. They showed us a Church-produced video on inviting people to church activities, talks, etc. One thing I noticed was their use of common parlace.

Examples:

”Hey! I’m giving a sermon in my church next week and wanted to invite you.”

Or

”Yeah, we have Bible study every two weeks.”

Not sure how successful we will be pulling people from other Christian churches using commonly used Christian vocabulary, like saved by grace, sermons, 'our pastor' is awesome, bible study every 2 weeks, etc.  We need to embrace our quirkiness as polytheists, non-trinitarian, non sola-fideist synergists, semi-pelagian, arian heresy embracing, non sola scriptura, living oracles, gethsemane believing, cross-banning, evolutionary God/Goddess embracing, exotic marriage founded, like LDS chaplains do when grouped with the wiccans, scientologists, and JW's.  

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13 minutes ago, blueglass said:

polytheists, non-trinitarian, non sola-fideist synergists, semi-pelagian, arian heresy embracing, non sola scriptura, living oracles, gethsemane believing, cross-banning, evolutionary God/Goddess embracing, exotic marriage founded

I mean you aren't technically wrong 😂

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3 hours ago, Joshua Valentine said:

1) Google ¨trinity¨ with ¨elim¨ or ¨elohim¨ or ¨plural names of God¨ and you will see that trinitarians stomach it just fine.
2) How is this statement even necessary, let alone appropriate? MiserereNobis´ comment simply indicated difference, there was no indication of judgment or derision.

I know he was teasing, but the reason he did it is because more orthodox Christians such as yourself like to say that we believe in a "different God" than them - a different Jesus, etc. I'm just turning the table back on Miserere. 

1) And no, I disagree with you. If trinitarians were at large OK with Elim, they wouldn't translate it as "the Mighty" in the KJV. It is the plural of El, and appears in the Hebrew scriptures several times. I believe it shows a difference between El Elyon and El Shaddai, which "orthodoxy" missed, but now I am getting way off the track of this thread. I just thought I would return the poke "orthodoxy" likes to poke at us. ;) I will now allow you to return to the regularly scheduled programming...

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3 hours ago, Joshua Valentine said:

These also seem strange. I understand, here and with the room names, wanting to communicate effectively.

But why not ¨scripture study¨ instead of ¨Bible study¨ which claims too much/too little. Why ¨sermon¨ when ¨talk¨ will do?

If the goal is simply effective communication, then, at least for this dialogue, general seems better than loaded specifics.

I’ve encountered at least 5 instances in the past couple years where people w/o a religious background didn’t know what “scripture” was, and thought a talk was like a TED talk.

Bible is still specific, yet general enough. Jews refer to their scripture as the Bible (or Jewish Bible) in colloquial language. I’ve hear a Sikh man refer to the Guru Granth Sahib as the Sikh Bible.

I think Bible Study and Sermon to strike right balance between being specific enough that people know what you’re talking about, while being general enough that both people with both religious and non-religious backgrounds can understand.

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8 hours ago, Joshua Valentine said:

 

Why permanently name a part of the temple a public friendly version when the public only get to see it for a week or so? The whole point is to expose people to an LDS Temple, so why water down the LDS-ness? Next to that is the missionary opportunity? Curiosity is generally welcome.

Just not following you guys here. So I thought I´d ask.

Like Scott and Hamba, I am also a temple worker (London Temple) and those rooms are referred to as "ordinance rooms".  I can't remember ever hearing the term "endowment room", unless it was a long time ago.  And as has been pointed out, the endowment is not a "single room" ordinance in any case, except possibly at times in the past when temples were not yet available.  In the Salt Lake and Manti temples, where the live actor format is still used, there remain separate rooms for the different stages of instruction and the receiving of ordinances: Creation Room, Garden Room, World Room, Terrestrial Room, and Celestial Room.  Add to that the preparatory ordinances, and the number of rooms comes to seven. In all the other temples the number of rooms is four.  This counts the Celestial Room as one of them, although of course no instruction or ordinances are given there. It's just the culmination.

So there is no such thing as "endowment room".  And really never has been.  There was an "Endowment House" in SLC, however.

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13 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Pre-Hippie and post-Beatnik.  In June 1967 I was fully armed and on the front line in the Arab-Israeli Six Day War.  No flower power.

Really?  Wow!

I read Leon Uris's books "Mila 18" and "Exodus" in my early teens and as a result I was a huge fan of Israel.  Still am.  In 1966, when I was 14, I recall telling my friend who brought me into the church that I was thinking of immigrating to Israel when I was 18 to help defend it.  He suggested I get baptized first! Which actually happened in July 1966. In the event, my family moved to Toronto, Canada because of my father's employment and in June 1967 I witnessed the 6-Day War from there.  I put a map of the region on my wall and marked the apparent progress of the war on it, as I heard news reports.  I was "all in"!  Or as "all in" as I could be. 

Later though, I served a full-time mission in Germany instead of immigrating to Israel.  I was on my mission when the Munich Olympics attack took place, in 1972.  On that day in the afternoon we were tracting, but oddly enough nobody even came to their doors. Or a few did, but even more quickly than usual just shooed us off.  We were puzzled by this, since Germans were really good at answering the doorbells even if they weren't interested. Finally a man came to the door and with a degree of exasperation asked us what we could possibly want!  Well, we said, we here to teach the Gospel.  He replied that he wasn't interested, but we were wasting our time doorbelling in any case -- didn't we know what was happening?  Of course we didn't, so he invited us to come in and see what was on the TV.  We did and after a few minutes we thanked our host and left.  We decided he was right, and so went back to our apartment to study.  

So what brought you to the Six Day War?

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20 hours ago, bluebell said:

The church's new 'come and see, some and serve, come and stay' program is emphasising using language that nonmembers understand.  It has examples of someone calling up a friend to ask them to come listen to her speak in church, only instead of telling the friend that she is going to give a talk, the girl tells the friend that she is going to give a sermon.  We went over these videos in our last stake conference leadership training meeting and the visiting 70 specifically pointed out the change in terms and how important it is.

I'm guessing the use of the term 'instruction room' instead of 'endowment room' during an open house is a similar thing.  

In regard to this room, it literally does have the name "Instruction Room".

 

 

As to making things understandable in general: I've always living in places where LDS Christians are a small minority.   As a teenager, I could

1) say "I'm going to Mutual" and have my friends go "huh?" and spend the entire short conversation defining terms, or

2) say "I'm going to Youth Group" and have my friends go "Cool, what you doing there tonight?"

Having good communication with terms people understand is just a good thing in general.  It's more important to have the meaning of something understood & convey the important stuff, rather than focus on learning Mormon-ese when we don't have to.  When the term is LDS-Christian-specific and there isn't a mainstream equivalent, then I'll explain things.  But when a simple analogous term does exist, why not use it to facilitate better communication?

 

Edited by Jane_Doe
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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, cinepro said:

We did, but the only missionary I spoke with was a sister from the Philippines.  It was really crowded.

The oddest thing at the open house was that they set up a big picture of the Temple in the visitor's center that you could stand in front of to take a picture.  I couldn't understand why someone would want a picture of themselves standing in front of a big picture of the Temple when the real thing was just outside.

Answering as somebody who's always seems to attend open houses when it's raining...

Edited by Jane_Doe
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Back when the Rome Temple was finished, the Church put out a video where Elder Bednar and Elder Rasband walk us through the Rome temple.

 

Starting around the 5:30 mark, Elder Rasband calls it an "ordinance session" and Elder Bednar calls the room an "instruction room".

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4 hours ago, Stargazer said:

....................................

So what brought you to the Six Day War?

I just happened to be there when it broke out.  One doesn't plan that sort of thing.

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1 hour ago, webbles said:

Back when the Rome Temple was finished, the Church put out a video where Elder Bednar and Elder Rasband walk us through the Rome temple.

 

Starting around the 5:30 mark, Elder Rasband calls it an "ordinance session" and Elder Bednar calls the room an "instruction room".

Weirdly enough Rasband and Bednar didn't introduce themselves as Elder or with their initials. I wonder if they're trying to get away from that?

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5 hours ago, Stargazer said:

So there is no such thing as "endowment room".  And really never has been.  There was an "Endowment House" in SLC, however.

It might have just been a cultural term, but it's definitely been used over the years, even by the Church:

Quote

The above architectural rendering portrays a new standard exterior design for the Church’s next generation of small temples, which will have two endowment rooms seating 40 people each.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1998/12/news-of-the-church/new-small-temple-design?lang=eng

Quote

I once saw a mother and daughter, a bride, waiting to go into the endowment room. They looked so radiant and peaceful that a sister worker said to the mother, “You both look so ready for the temple.”

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1983/10/four-blessings-of-the-temple?lang=eng

Quote

We dedicate the new baptismal font, the new sealing room, the added endowment room and other rooms and facilities which have been completed to facilitate and make possible and convenient the greater use of this structure by Thy faithful people.o

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/temples/details/chicago-illinois-temple/prayer/1989-10-08

Quote

“For several years, under a Federal grant with my staff of workers we had gathered thousands of data in the field of soil moisture; but I could not extract any general law running through them. I gave up at last. My wife and I went to the temple that day to forget the failure. In the third endowment room, out of the unseen, came the solution, which has long since gone into print.”

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1981/04/building-bridges-to-faith?lang=eng

Quote
Quote

Entering the endowment room, I took a seat near the back.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1988/02/tender-embraces?lang=eng

 

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On another note of language change, we are no longer being redirected from churchofjesuschrist.org to lds,org (though the reverse works)

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3 hours ago, cinepro said:

 

It might have just been a cultural term, but it's definitely been used over the years, even by the Church:

 

I don't doubt that it has, but I don't seem to have encountered it much.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, webbles said:

Back when the Rome Temple was finished, the Church put out a video where Elder Bednar and Elder Rasband walk us through the Rome temple.

 

Starting around the 5:30 mark, Elder Rasband calls it an "ordinance session" and Elder Bednar calls the room an "instruction room".

Yes, but at 5:49 Elder Bednar specifies that this is where the endowment begins.  He then gives a general explanation of what it is.  Why is it so important that the room is called "endowment room"?  Earlier I was responding in ignorance, since I hadn't watched this video previously, but now I have, and like in some other temples, the endowment is broken up into two parts, with the first taking place in the one room (here in a room decorated with murals representing the creation) and then participants move on to another room (without murals). From there they move to the Celestial Room.  So there is no single "endowment room" in this temple.  There are ordinance rooms in which the elements of the endowment are presented.

Edited by Stargazer

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