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Bernard Gui

Norton Publicly Denounces Ms Denson?

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Posted (edited)

 Am I behind the times, hearing unfounded rumors, or just misunderstanding and out to lunch? Fake news?

Is it true that Mike Norton has thrown Ms Denson under the bus? Warning......strong language.

https://www.plonialmonimormon.com/2019/05/laffaire-denson-and-the-ex-mormon-dilemma.html

  Quote

In [a recently released video], Norton publicly denounces Denson as “a pathological liar” and “possibly the worst human being I have ever met.” He claims Denson (whose real name is June Hughes, he reveals) herself is the one responsible for the alleged attacks in May 2019. Among other things, Norton alleges that Denson has made multiple false or unsubstantiated rape accusations (including accusations of rape by black men), has harmed herself in an attempt to bring spurious lawsuits against various companies, has gotten money “under false pretenses” for cancer treatment, and has been tried and/or convicted for various crimes (including identity theft, DUI, and shoplifting). This, Norton says, is all made perfectly clear in police records going back decades. Norton openly encourages anyone watching to contact him to verify the accuracy of the reports he is reading. “I would not want to be anywhere near her,” he says, “because if you get alone with McKenna Denson she could very well make some sort of allegation that you sexually assaulted her.” He concludes the video with wishing Denson “rots in hell” and warning her that he will be “her worst nightmare” if she tries to bring legal action against him for the video.

(Norton also explains in the video that he has taken down his video of him and Denson crashing the September 2, 2018 sacrament meeting and apologizes to Joseph Bishop for “being slightly complicit in McKenna Denson’s current public meltdown,” although he still believes Bishop is “probably a man of questionable moral integrity.”)....

In this video, Denson confirms she has been diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder by a doctor in Colorado Springs, Colorado. She also discusses working with a therapist helping her with issues involving Dissociative Identity Disorder and talks about “owning” any mistakes she may have made (even if that includes losing friends).

For his part, Norton unleashes a stream of profanity against Denson for “lying to him” and “countless people for literally 40 years.” He again calls her “a pathological liar,” as well as “a professional con artist,” “a grifter,” “a [expletive] monster,” and “a worthless piece of [expletive]” while reiterating his disbelief in her claims. “I can’t wait to see you go down in a ball of flames.” 

Speaking of the pending lawsuit against the Church, Norton informs Denson that he has been “cooperating” with the Church’s legal counsel David Jordan, has recorded “every conversation” the two have had “for weeks,” and is “going to burn [Denson] at the [expletive] stake.” (He later reveals that he has turned his findings over to the police and to Jordan, and is willing to testify against her in court.)....

Edited by Bernard Gui
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9 minutes ago, pogi said:

It turns out that the enemy of your enemy may not be your friend after all.

I just feel so bad for Mike - all he really wanted to do was slap the church in the face, and all this does is put him in the position of cooperating with the church legal counsel...so sad. 

What a world we live in! 

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Ok then.  Well, I am commanded to love my neighbor, and Denson is my neighbor, so here goes.   Just watched the whole video (and spent the last few days reviewing the various leaks and police reports and accounts).  I am sad for Denson.   Borderline Personality Disorder is not fun.  It's not fun to have it, not fun to be in the life of someone who has it.  One of the reason lies are a bad thing, is they cause damage in lots of directions, including back at the person lying.  It's hard to live around people who has lost trust in you, which I'm sure is happening here in great amounts.  Most of all, I'm sad because I believe the balance of the evidence, even including this 40 minute summary of her past crap, still indicates she had some traumatic thing (probably a series of them across her early life), where she was abused by various people in various ways.  She started out like any of us - an innocent little kid.  I think it's a reasonable guess that a significant portion of her brokenness is because of crap that happened to her when she was innocent and trying.  Trauma and abuse screw you up.  Not everybody gets to emerge on the other end of such a trial fully healthy and happy.  I know that there are folks who just are about as healthy as they'll ever be, no matter how much additional help or counseling or healing they get, and I believe it's possible Denson might be about as healthy as she'll ever be.  I can have love, sympathy, pity, and perhaps a tiny tad of empathy for her.  None of this excuses or justifies her behavior, but I do find it possible to love her as my neighbor.

I live in Colorado Springs.  I've eaten at that PF Changs where she supposedly ingested razor blades.  The more I read, the more I keep expecting to see a name I recognize. 

Well said!

I cringed at reading how badly Mike Norton unleashed profanity at her and demeans her lower than I have ever heard someone being demeaned, even after acknowledging that she has been diagnosed with these disorders.  This just makes him look even worse than he did before.  While I should try to love him too, it is hard for me to have sympathy for him as he reveals his character and deep hate for things he doesn't understand.

Edited by pogi
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4 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Ok then.  Well, I am commanded to love my neighbor, and Denson is my neighbor, so here goes.   Just watched the whole video (and spent the last few days reviewing the various leaks and police reports and accounts).  I am sad for Denson.   Borderline Personality Disorder is not fun.  It's not fun to have it, not fun to be in the life of someone who has it.  One of the reason lies are a bad thing, is they cause damage in lots of directions, including back at the person lying.  It's hard to live around people who has lost trust in you, which I'm sure is happening here in great amounts.  Most of all, I'm sad because I believe the balance of the evidence, even including this 40 minute summary of her past crap, still indicates she had some traumatic thing (probably a series of them across her early life), where she was abused by various people in various ways.  She started out like any of us - an innocent little kid.  I think it's a reasonable guess that a significant portion of her brokenness is because of crap that happened to her when she was innocent and trying.  Trauma and abuse screw you up.  Not everybody gets to emerge on the other end of such a trial fully healthy and happy.  I know that there are folks who just are about as healthy as they'll ever be, no matter how much additional help or counseling or healing they get, and I believe it's possible Denson might be about as healthy as she'll ever be.  I can have love, sympathy, pity, and perhaps a tiny tad of empathy for her.  None of this excuses or justifies her behavior, but I do find it possible to love her as my neighbor.

I live in Colorado Springs.  I've eaten at that PF Changs where she supposedly ingested razor blades.  The more I read, the more I keep expecting to see a name I recognize. 

It's such a sad situation for everyone. Jesus taught us to forgiven others and have charity, yet exploitation abounds.

 A close loved one suffered trauma with a person with BPD. No one wins with that. 

Part of the problem is the immediate rush to judgement that happens today with instant "information" and social media fueling the fire. 

We all should be careful when we choose to jump on a band wagon. Who's steering the wagon?

 

 

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Remember that Joseph Bishop admitted in the tape that he behaved inappropriately with Ms. Denson (without admitting rape).   Whatever else Ms. Denson has or hasn't done, including lately with Mike Norton as a full and willing participant and enabler,  it is Norton who should be accepting his own ownership for helping to create and encourage whatever happened that started him off on the tirade.

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33 minutes ago, pogi said:

I just feel so bad for Mike - all he really wanted to do was slap the church in the face, and all this does is put him in the position of cooperating with the church legal counsel...so sad. 

This made me laugh out loud.  Thanks!

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Ok then.  Well, I am commanded to love my neighbor, and Denson is my neighbor, so here goes.   Just watched the whole video (and spent the last few days reviewing the various leaks and police reports and accounts).  I am sad for Denson.   Borderline Personality Disorder is not fun.  It's not fun to have it, not fun to be in the life of someone who has it.  One of the reason lies are a bad thing, is they cause damage in lots of directions, including back at the person lying.  It's hard to live around people who has lost trust in you, which I'm sure is happening here in great amounts.  Most of all, I'm sad because I believe the balance of the evidence, even including this 40 minute summary of her past crap, still indicates she had some traumatic thing (probably a series of them across her early life), where she was abused by various people in various ways.  She started out like any of us - an innocent little kid.  I think it's a reasonable guess that a significant portion of her brokenness is because of crap that happened to her when she was innocent and trying.  Trauma and abuse screw you up.  Not everybody gets to emerge on the other end of such a trial fully healthy and happy.  I know that there are folks who just are about as healthy as they'll ever be, no matter how much additional help or counseling or healing they get, and I believe it's possible Denson might be about as healthy as she'll ever be.  I can have love, sympathy, pity, and perhaps a tiny tad of empathy for her.  None of this excuses or justifies her behavior, but I do find it possible to love her as my neighbor.

I live in Colorado Springs.  I've eaten at that PF Changs where she supposedly ingested razor blades.  The more I read, the more I keep expecting to see a name I recognize. 

DITTO, all the way!! Except for PF Changs in CO, never been! Thanks for putting in words what I've been thinking.

Edited by Tacenda

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She turned on him, huh? Guess that backfired. 

 

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4 hours ago, pogi said:

It turns out that the enemy of your enemy may not be your friend after all.

I just feel so bad for Mike - all he really wanted to do was slap the church in the face, and all this does is put him in the position of cooperating with the church legal counsel...so sad. 

Sounds like a case for Dr Phil.

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Seems like Norton is protesting a wee bit too much....

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Posted (edited)

Bernard, I sent a PM.

Edited by Calm

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, juliann said:

Where is the diagnosis of BPD? Or is it something she is throwing out there. Again. 

Of course we need to behave in a Christian manner towards evil doers. But geeze louise do we not also have an obligation to STOP accepting anything she says at face value now?

TripleN has posted a phone call with Denson (she didn't know he was taping her until further into the call), where she claims a Dr. in Colorado Springs diagnosed her with BPD.  Not sure on the name, sounds like "Will Borin", but a quick google doesn't show anything.  She also says she discovered working with a different counselor a few months ago, that she has Dissociative Identity Disorder.  (please think twice before you seek out this audio, it's horrible to listen to)

Honestly, someone admitting to BPD or DID, is the same thing as admitting that they lie and say and do horrible things.   It's analogous to admitting you're a compulsive liar and can't be trusted, and people should think twice before being in a relationship with you.   

Edited by LoudmouthMormon

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4 hours ago, rpn said:

Remember that Joseph Bishop admitted in the tape that he behaved inappropriately with Ms. Denson (without admitting rape).   Whatever else Ms. Denson has or hasn't done, including lately with Mike Norton as a full and willing participant and enabler,  it is Norton who should be accepting his own ownership for helping to create and encourage whatever happened that started him off on the tirade.

I'm not sure Mr. Bishop was in control of all his faculties at that time. So many questions.

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3 hours ago, Calm said:

I have never understood why people were so dismissive of the dossier, taking Denson's word that the multiple criminal activities were in the past or false claims even as she was charged once again with committing identity fraud while the whole thing was going on.

Without regard to this case, people have every right to be outraged when an entity's first response to a sexual assault claim is to attack the person who makes the allegations, and, and everyone should be horrified at the idea that distributing the dossier was honorable ----- you'll recall that it was NOT the church/church attys who leaked it, they shared it with bishop's attorney who was also bishop's son, who did what attorneys generally would not do: publish it.   Even if Denson had a record of fraud, that doesn't mean the assault didn't happen.  Indeed Bishop admitted to inappropriate behavior.   (It is reasonable that prior bad acts suggest a kind of caution.   But that caution has to include knowledge that many sexual assault perps choose broken victims because they are broken and perps can avoid accountability by doing so.)

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Posted (edited)

I don't have the least problem with outrage at the leaking of the dossier or the inclusion of her biodaughter's name in it.

My problem is the fact that most critics ignored it or they wouldn't have been surprised by the latest info.

Norton states "I trusted her implicitly", but now he knows the truth from reading the reports he could have gotten much earlier he sees her as possibly the worst person he has ever met, even worse than a couple who locked up their five year old and massively neglected the child.

Why would anyone implicitly trust someone with a long and current record of being charged with criminal fraud?  At least not without verifying first?

Edited by Calm
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3 hours ago, Calm said:

This and the details shared by Norton is being discussed in detail in the discovery status thread in case anyone hasn't read it.

Since the theme of the thread is somewhat being compassionate to others (or so I read it), a theory floated elsewhere is Norton is so vicious because he is trying to protect his own family as it is possible he is concerned with Denson coming after him and his loved ones.  So over the top to scare her off of trying anything.

Otoh, treating someone you consider mentally disturbed this way...I think he could have warned her off in a less vicious way.

As I mention in the other thread sort of, imagine the benefit to all concerned if instead of simply trashing the Church/Church lawyer David Jordan for composing the dossier and trying to victim shame, someone closely involved with her in the activist activities or the news media had taken the information given publicly and followed up with Denson asking for a place and time associated with the claims.  Then they could have requested the police reports and known all of this before more damage was done...or get red flagged when she refused.

I have never understood why people were so dismissive of the dossier, taking Denson's word that the multiple criminal activities were in the past or false claims even as she was charged once again with committing identity fraud while the whole thing was going on.  If Bishop had said the same thing, would the lawsuit to get the complete file from BYU Police have been dropped?  No way and rightly so.

Norton (whether he got them from Jordan or independently) makes public the details of Jordan's work and even those unhappy with the way he did it see it as important to expose the reality.  Why didn't they see the same back when the whole thing started?

That's the problem with our current practice of gleefully shouting unverified news from the rooftops, promptly rolling out the social media thunder, and roundly condemning before patiently confirming. 

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5 minutes ago, Calm said:

I don't have the least problem with outrage at the leaking of the dossier or the inclusion of her biodaughter's name in it.

My problem is the fact that most critics ignored it or they wouldn't have been surprised by the latest info.

Norton states "I trusted her implicitly", but now he knows the truth from reading the reports he could have gotten much earlier he sees her as possibly the worst person he has ever met, even worse than a couple who locked up their five year old and massively neglected the child.

Why would anyone implicitly trust someone with a long and current record of being charged with criminal fraud?  At least not without verifying first?

As R.Reagan used to say, "trust but verify." Unfortunately, I have become skeptical of just about everything that comes down the pike now. 

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33 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

TripleN has posted a phone call with Denson (she didn't know he was taping her until further into the call), where she claims a Dr. in Colorado Springs diagnosed her with BPD.  Not sure on the name, sounds like "Will Borin", but a quick google doesn't show anything.  She also says she discovered working with a different counselor a few months ago, that she has Dissociative Identity Disorder.  (please think twice before you seek out this audio, it's horrible to listen to)

Honestly, someone admitting to BPD or DID, is the same thing as admitting that they lie and say and do horrible things.   It's analogous to admitting you're a compulsive liar and can't be trusted, and people should think twice before being in a relationship with you.   

Yes, it is best to be cautious when dealing with such unfortunate people. The sad thing is, Mr. Bishop may have done what she says he did, but how can it ever be proven and resolved?

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, juliann said:

Where is the diagnosis of BPD? Or is it something she is throwing out there. Again. 

Of course we need to behave in a Christian manner towards evil doers. But geeze louise do we not also have an obligation to STOP accepting anything she says at face value now?

That’s a fair point, and I’m no psychologist, but based on her history of behavior, I’d venture to say that it is reasonably safe to trust her on this one.

Edited by pogi
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Posted (edited)

 

In another board, not so far away, is a thread discussing "fighting for Jesus".  

 

When someone accuses the church of something, should the church turn the other cheek?  If someone slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also; 40 if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well; 41 and if someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two.

 

WWJD?

 

How should the church handle cases like this?

Edited by changed

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