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Julie Rowe rumor

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4 hours ago, clarkgoble said:

I don't think there's a way to know how common it was in absolute terms. However the Church's The First Fifty Years of the Relief Society they discuss it and that no limits were placed on it until Heber J. Grant and that under Joseph it was discussed. It's not until after WWII that we get Joseph F. Smith setting the current policy.

"While the Authorities of the Church have ruled that it is permissible, under certain conditions and with the approval of the Priesthood, for sisters to wash and anoint other sisters, yet they feel that it is far better for us to follow the plan the Lord has given us and send for the Elders of the Church to come and administer to the sick and afflicted" 

You have official statements from the First Presidency in the early decades of the 20th century permitting and even encouraging the practice. (See the 1914 First Presidency Circular -- also quoted from in the lds.org entry.) See Jonathan Stapley's "Female Ritual Healing" for more references. Joseph F. Smith was prior to WWII a big proponent of female healing. 

I can't speak to your grandparents or how normative their practices were, but there's plenty of literature from before WWII promoting the practice.

Parents, not grandparents. 

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2 hours ago, Calm said:

One of my great grandmothers was set apart  ( "ordained"by someone from Salt Lake City, iirc) to do exactly that in the late 1800's.  I have the certificate of this somewhere.  Agewise, she could easily have still been doing this in the 20's.

I don’t question that it happened, just that it was common. My mom was a missionary by the late ‘20s, so I would think she had enough awareness and exposure to have encountered it if it were common, especially if it lasted up through the end of World War II. It’s possible, I suppose, that she knew of it but never bothered mentioning it to me. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd

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11 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I don’t question that it happened, just that it was common. My mom was a missionary by the late ‘20s, so I would think she had enough awareness and exposure to have encountered it if it were common, especially if it lasted up through the end of World War II. It’s possible, I suppose, that she knew of it but never bothered mentioning it to me. 

I think they never bothered to mention it to you, because by that time, it was still common for women going into labor and for women's health issues and maybe you being a young boy, wouldn't have been privy to discussions.  The practice of women giving blessings was common in the church up till the Leaders started discouraging it and asking members to call the Elders.  The practice died down with more hospital births that would have been the 1920's to 30's, but I think that with the reemergence of midwifery the past couple of decades and also alternative healing practices, some women in the church are going back to these old practices.  The sisters often didn't just lay hands on head, but would also anoint the affected parts of the body.  A Book that gives information on the history of  women giving blessings is 'Sisters in Spirit'.  So, yes, the practice was more common than you'd think among church members up until about the 1930's.

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20 hours ago, Jake Starkey said:

I don't really understand the essential oils thing other than a faddish female (?) - oriented marketing scheme as a part of faith and energy healing.

I get the idea of aromatherapy, but is it done as an 'anointing' to particular parts of the body and then sealed with a blessing for faith, health, and healing?

I have no knowledge if some church members involved in essential oils and alternative healing practices are using consecrated oil mixed with essential oils, or anointing the body parts.  Years ago, I worked with several women who were into essential oils and I know some women who use them, but never discussed it with them.  Some of them used midwives and alternative doctors, but that's all I know.  I'm like Calm, I use essential oils that I like the smell, in a diffuser to make my room smell nice, they sell them all over now so I think they've gone mainstream as far as aromatherapy goes.

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Just now, alter idem said:

I have no knowledge if some church members involved in essential oils and alternative healing practices are using consecrated oil mixed with essential oils, or anointing the body parts.  Years ago, I worked with several women who were into essential oils and I know some women who use them, but never discussed it with them.  Some of them used midwives and alternative doctors, but that's all I know.  I'm like Calm, I use essential oils that I like the smell, in a diffuser to make my room smell nice, they sell them all over now so I think they've gone mainstream as far as aromatherapy goes.

Yes, I use them for aromatherapy/in place of candles because I think they smell nice.  I know that there are a lot of women who swear by them (that they will fix everything from cradle cap to some kinds of cancer) but I don't run in those circles so it doesn't effect me.

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18 hours ago, clarkgoble said:

A lot of the claims you hear from oil advocates are nonsense, but there are a fair number of scientific studies on many particularly in animal husbandry. Things like oregano, thyme or peppermint oils as antibiotics. I personally find for an upset stomach that peppermint works better the pepto-bismal. The problem is that the business model most of these companies favor tend to incentivize outrageous claims that the companies can say they didn't advocate.

The main problem is doing peer reviewed double blind studies with reasonable sample sizes. (A lot of stuff you see referenced by oil proponents has very small sample sizes and is thus not terribly meaningful) Legitimate studies that actually tell us things cost a lot of money and few are willing to do them.

Energy stuff is popular. If I understand correctly the issue with Rowe was mixing religious language and quasi-priesthood actions with the energy healing. I suspect it'd get dismissed as just an other alternative medicine claims ranging from chiropractory through other such stuff were it not from that emulation of priesthood. As far as I know that's primarily Rowe and a few others with most other energy workers distancing themselves from that and outright upset at her. It's also worth noting that most energy workers don't use quasi-religious overtones. That said I think it clear that some, particularly in a few locations like parts of American Fork, have embraced it in a disturbing way. I'd hope people don't label everyone because of what Rowe and a few others are doing.

There's a few you see retweeted on Twitter occasionally. I suspect were one to closely go through The Exponent or Feminist Mormon Housewives you'd find examples of people doing it. Here's one example and another I found with a quick google. My guess is that there's overlap between feminists wanting more eccesiastic influence and those using energy alternative medicine in a quasi-priesthood way. To me the issue isn't energy claims but these larger feminist issues. However it seems clear some are conflating them.

Julie Rowe learned her craft (paid money to become a healing coach) from the Emotion Code founder, Bradley Nelson.  He's LDS and it's likely she learned the whole mixing religion and priesthood from other LDS healers. It's not just the healing practices of praying etc, but it involves freeing the patient from troubled ancestors' spirits (this is my understanding of it) that they claim are causing the problems to their health and well-being.  But, it needs sessions to do this and they cost money for the sessions, though some Energy healers insist they do it for free.  They don't have to touch the person, as noted, Julie Rowe does telephone sessions which cost a lot of money as well.  I think it is placebo and takes advantage of desperate people trying to feel better.  I was really glad when Elder Ballard spoke up to caution members against this practice.  Some energy healers listened and quit, but not Julie Rowe.  She and others ignored or rationalized his warnings.

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What Nelson and Rowe etc are doing is similar to 'generational sin/trauma' healing, which has some followers among right evangelical and charismatic church groups in the south.  I have not been around them since the mid nineties, so I would not be surprised in the slightest if that has not evolved into a practice using essential oils.  The movement was heavily used by women,  most whom were no kind of feminist.  That may well have changed.  They did use a prayer channel of two or three individuals, with the 'healer' as a voice and at least one intermediate person (at times a male) who laid her or his hands on the afflicted individual's arm or should and "channeled" the prayer of the healer.

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3 hours ago, alter idem said:

I think they never bothered to mention it to you, because by that time, it was still common for women going into labor and for women's health issues and maybe you being a young boy, wouldn't have been privy to discussions.  The practice of women giving blessings was common in the church up till the Leaders started discouraging it and asking members to call the Elders.  The practice died down with more hospital births that would have been the 1920's to 30's, but I think that with the reemergence of midwifery the past couple of decades and also alternative healing practices, some women in the church are going back to these old practices.  The sisters often didn't just lay hands on head, but would also anoint the affected parts of the body.  A Book that gives information on the history of  women giving blessings is 'Sisters in Spirit'.  So, yes, the practice was more common than you'd think among church members up until about the 1930's.

I was a fully grown adult, returned missionary, having a college degree and having started life on my own by the time they both died in the 1990s. The Church was a huge part of our family life, and we had numerous and candid gospel discussions, formal and informal. There would have been ample opportunity for this to come up in any of those. I learned, for example, that enforcement of the Word of Wisdom had been lax until the presidency of Heber J. Grant, who told the Saints they would be loved and fellowshipped but could no longer hold Church callings until they agreed to abide by it. My parents spoke openly about the pre-Manifesto practice of polygamy, both in our family line and outside it. They talked about the rise of schismatic or apostate groups flourishing in our area, including the Jeffs group and another one that involved people who had been active in our ward. They talked about the Relief Society operating maternity hospitals (I was born in one of them, as were my brothers).

But for some reason, the subject of women giving blessings never came up. You said the practice “died down” in the ‘30s, but the earlier claim was that it persisted through the end of World War II. That’s not very long before I was born in the mid-‘50s. 

I’ve acknowledged the possibility my parents knew about it but for whatever reason never bothered to bring it up. Perhaps it just wasn’t on their radar. Then again, if it was so common. ...

Edited by Scott Lloyd

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26 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Last year a friend of mind told me about an event he was invited to attend by family members.  The event was a "conference" put on by an organization called "Preparing a People," which maintains a website here: https://www.preparingapeople.com/ ("PAP").  The proprietors of the website are Michael and Nancy James (see here).

My friend described the event in fairly strange terms, as follows:

  • He said there was a lot of emphasis on "end-times" scenarios, mixed together with "doomsday prepper"-style rhetoric and products for sale.
  • He said that the event seemed to be attempting to parallel General Conference.  The presenters and attendees called the event a "conference" broken up into "sessions."  They began each session with a hymn and an opening prayer.
  • He said there were many references to Julie Rowe, a member of the Church who has claimed to have received visions and revelations.
  • He was fairly concerned about the tone and content of many of the presentations at this event, as most of them consist of descriptions of visions and prophecies the presenters have claim to have received.
  • One of the presenters was someone named Hector Sosa.  He was listed in the program as a "Visionary and Author," and that he has "foreseen" events (listed in his bio on the PAP website), such as "earthquakes in Utah," "concentration camps on U.S. soil," "an invasion from foreign troops," etc.   He and other presenters told the audience about visions and dreams they have had.  He presented himself as having heard God's voice and the Savior's voice, and seen them.  He presented this as intending to bolster the legitimacy of his statements.
  • Other presenters included Marilyn Light, Shawn Littlebear and Chad Daybell:
    • Ms. Light's bio (see previous link) includes her speaking of each person having a "unique time clock," and of her being an expert in herbalism and "in spiritual understanding of astral patterns."  On her personal website (a link to which is provided on the PAP website) she claims that she has "a gift to uncover the seemingly endless HIDDEN wisdom observed in our Universe, Solar System and Earth School."  She offers courses on "Heaven's Time Clock" which cost $50 per session.
    • Mr. Littlebear's bio states that he has "visionary gifts" inherited from his ancestors, and that he "has been commissioned to preserve sacred artifacts and teachings which will bless the world."  On his personal website (a link to which is provided on the above website) he presents himself as an "an LDS Cheyenne Medicine Man."  In this flyer for an upcoming event in Arizona, he is described as an "LDS traditional leader."
    • Mr. Daybell's personal website (linked to on the PAP website) includes video "episodes" for viewers to purchase ($50 each).  These videos have titles such as "A Tour Through the Spirit World," "The Reality of Ghosts," "Messages from Prominent People on the Other Side," and "Angelic Warnings About America's Future."
  • The event was a for-profit endeavor.  Attendees had to pay to get in (around $30 per ticket).  There were also vendors at the event selling all sorts of things.
Overall my friend was fairly concerned and disturbed by the proceedings of this event, as he felt that some of the personal experiences shared may have been embellished or even fabricated, and that even those legitimate experiences should not be the subject of public discussion, nor should the re-telling of them be sold for money.  He is also concerned about the effect these presenters and their materials and claims are having on his family members.
 
In later speaking of this issue with another friend, he reminded me of Elder Ballard's October 2017 General Conference talk which included the following counsel:
We must be careful where our footsteps in life take us. We must be watchful and heed the counsel of Jesus to His disciples as He answered these questions: “Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
 
“And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man [and I add woman] deceive you.”9
 
Today I repeat earlier counsel from Church leaders.
  • Brothers and sisters, keep the doctrine of Christ pure and never be deceived by those who tamper with the doctrine. The gospel of the Father and the Son was restored through Joseph Smith, the prophet for this last dispensation.
  • Do not listen to those who have not been ordained and/or set apart to their Church calling and are not acknowledged by common consent of the members of the Church.10
  • Be aware of organizations, groups, or individuals claiming secret answers to doctrinal questions that they say today’s apostles and prophets do not have or understand.
  • Do not listen to those who entice you with get-rich schemes. Our members have lost far too much money, so be careful.
In some places, too many of our people are looking beyond the mark and seeking secret knowledge in expensive and questionable practices to provide healing and support.
 
An official Church statement, issued one year ago, states: “We urge Church members to be cautious about participating in any group that promises—in exchange for money—miraculous healings or that claims to have special methods for accessing healing power outside of properly ordained priesthood holders.”11
 
The Church Handbook counsels: “Members should not use medical or health practices that are ethically or legally questionable. Local leaders should advise members who have health problems to consult with competent professional practitioners who are licensed in the countries where they practice.”12
 
Brothers and sisters, be wise and aware that such practices may be emotionally appealing but may ultimately prove to be spiritually and physically harmful.
___________
9. Matthew 24:3–4.
10. See Doctrine and Covenants 26:2; 28:13; 43:6–7.
11. Church spokesman Eric Hawkins, Sept. 2016.
12. Handbook 2, 21.3.6.
As this is all publicly-available information, I have no qualms with sharing it (as a precaution and warning against participating in this sort of thing).
 
Thanks,
 
-Smecer

Thank you for this warning, Smac. And thank you for reprising the counsel from President Ballard. If our people would heed it, I can’t see how they could be taken in by the conference you describe. 

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There is absolutely nothing wrong with faith healing. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using essential oils for the health of you, your family, and friends. I have faith and I also am well educated in the use of herbs and essential oils. I have never heard of "anointing" with essential oils in the sense of giving a blessing and that could be coming from an outsider who doesn't understand how essential oils work. Just like once, when my children were in school, another child's mother, who was very against Latter-day Saints, called CPS and told them we were forcing our children to have seances...we were inviting spirits in our home??? i.e Family Prayer--"Let thy spirit dwell in our home". Knowledge is wonderful and the spirit can direct you by your faith with the use of that knowledge.  However, there is much wrong when you take those gifts and blessings that come from the Lord and begin to set yourself up as a "healer" . That particular problem falls into the same types of groups of visionaries and end of timers who exploit others for money.

If there are sisters here that feel that blessing their child is wrong, I feel very sorry for them. Faith is a power that we have access to. The miracles don't come if we don't use that faith.

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1 hour ago, smac97 said:

As this is all publicly-available information, I have no qualms with sharing it (as a precaution and warning against participating in this sort of thing).

Thanks for the info.  I had looked this up in the past, probably one of my searches on what Rowe was up to lately.  I couldn't find much info on it at the time, so this is interesting.

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On 5/27/2019 at 12:08 AM, MorningStar said:

Hope she's correctly diagnosed and treated soon. 

One person's crazy is another person's prophet.  Nothing new here.

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1 hour ago, Kate said:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with faith healing. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using essential oils for the health of you, your family, and friends. 

I think the concern is about priestcraft. 

From the EOM:

Quote

Inherent in this definition is the concern that Church leaders must labor to build Zion into the hearts of the people, and not for their personal aggrandizement or reward. When leaders "make merchandise" of men's souls (2 Pet. 2:3), they turn religion into a business, and pride, materialism, and unrighteous dominion follow.

Both in scripture and in literature priestcraft is condemned. Peter cursed Simon the sorcerer, who wanted to purchase the priesthood for money (Acts 8:14-24). Dante's Peter castigates several popes and priests for not serving freely and for making a sewer of the sepulcher of Peter by selling priesthood appointment (Paradiso 27:22-57). Chaucer observed that greed for personal gain and glory often replaced genuine priesthood service ("General Prologue" and "Introduction to the Pardoner's Tale," Canterbury Tales ). Milton's lines from Lycidas condemning a clergy who "for their bellies' sake, / Creep and intrude, and climb into the fold" (ll. 114-15) sum up the evil of priestcraft: "The hungry sheep look up, and are not fed, / But swoln with wind and the rank mist they draw, / Rot inwardly, and foul contagion spread" (ll. 125-27). 

"For, behold, priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion.  ... But the laborer in Zion shall labor for Zion; for if they labor for money they shall perish."  (2 Nephi 26:29, 31)

"The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant."  (Isaiah 24:5)

"For they have strayed from mine ordinances, and have broken mine everlasting covenant."  (D&C 1:15)

1 hour ago, Kate said:

I have faith and I also am well educated in the use of herbs and essential oils.

I also have faith.  And I use essential oils, though not for healing.  And not in connection with the priesthood or priesthood blessings.  And I don't use the priesthood or claimed spiritual gifts to make money from other people.

Priestcraft.  Yeesh.  I wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole.

Thanks,

-Smac

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57 minutes ago, Calm said:

Thanks for the info.  I had looked this up in the past, probably one of my searches on what Rowe was up to lately.  I couldn't find much info on it at the time, so this is interesting.

For what it's worth, I have quite enjoyed getting into emergency preparedness.  I have spent a fair amount of time and money and effort in building up food storage, water storage, water filtration, off-grid cooking/heating solutions, financial preparedness, and so on.  I have a family of eight, and would feel rather badly if an emergency came along and I hadn't made any efforts to provide for their safety and well-being in such a situation.

However, I have not done these things based on fear, or on the doom-n-gloom stuff being peddled by Rowe and her compatriots.  I just feel that the Church's guidelines for emergency prep are quite sensible.  I also would like to travel a bit as I get older.  However, I felt that in order to do so I first needed to prioritize time/money/effort in organizing my emergency prep efforts.  Then I could feel comfortable in spending money on traveling and such.

The stuff my friend reported seemed to be pretty priestcraft-ish.  I'm going to stay well clear of such things.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited by smac97
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13 hours ago, bluebell said:

Yes, I use them for aromatherapy/in place of candles because I think they smell nice.  I know that there are a lot of women who swear by them (that they will fix everything from cradle cap to some kinds of cancer) but I don't run in those circles so it doesn't effect me.

I also use essential oils for aromatherapy.  I have a diffuser for them in both my home office and my work office. 

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16 hours ago, smac97 said:

I think the concern is about priestcraft. 

From the EOM:

"For, behold, priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion.  ... But the laborer in Zion shall labor for Zion; for if they labor for money they shall perish."  (2 Nephi 26:29, 31)

"The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant."  (Isaiah 24:5)

"For they have strayed from mine ordinances, and have broken mine everlasting covenant."  (D&C 1:15)

I also have faith.  And I use essential oils, though not for healing.  And not in connection with the priesthood or priesthood blessings.  And I don't use the priesthood or claimed spiritual gifts to make money from other people.

Priestcraft.  Yeesh.  I wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole.

Thanks,

-Smac

Yep, that was my point.

 

18 hours ago, Kate said:

However, there is much wrong when you take those gifts and blessings that come from the Lord and begin to set yourself up as a "healer" . That particular problem falls into the same types of groups of visionaries and end of timers who exploit others for money.

 I'm not sure whether some of the concern here that the essential oils are being used in connection with the priesthood is just an assumption. Oils are placed on various parts of the body for absorption. If placed on the scalp, there is better absorption. 

 

22 hours ago, alter idem said:

I get the idea of aromatherapy, but is it done as an 'anointing' to particular parts of the body and then sealed with a blessing for faith, health, and healing?

The quote above is actually "Jake". People jump to conclusions sometimes just as in the example I gave about my own family and family prayer. So my concern is that though the whole Julie Rowe thing and energy healing is wrong, bringing up women who heal their family with faith, and also use essential oils for their family's health and assuming they use the two together as a priesthood blessing can just be jumping to the wrong conclusion.

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I am asking if we know women  "who heal their family with faith, and also use essential oils for their family's health and assuming they use the two together as a priesthood blessing"?

I do know women who wash, anoint, lay hands on another woman bless her in the name of Jesus Christ for faith, health, and healing.  I know that happens today in CA, UT, and CO.  I wish the women in my family would do that.

My ???? is, "do some women use essential oils as part of the blessing ritual?"  If so, do essential oils add any 'sacredness' to the ritual, or does it add comfort as part of the ritual?

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9 minutes ago, Jake Starkey said:

My ???? is, "do some women use essential oils as part of the blessing ritual?"  If so, do essential oils add any 'sacredness' to the ritual, or does it add comfort as part of the ritual?

My understanding is that there is very deep symbolism in the use of olive oil.  The Church is quite clear that priesthood blessings should use consecrated "pure olive oil."

See also here:

Quote

The reason for using olive oil rather than any other kind of oil is never clearly stated in the scriptures. To say that olive oil is preferred because it is the oil indigenous to the Holy Land would be simplistic. A more likely explanation results from examining the wide range of meanings symbolized by the olive tree and the oil derived from the olive fruit, the only major culinary oil that is derived from a fruit. The olive branch has long been a token of peace. The olive tree is used in scripture as a symbol for the house of Israel (Hosea 14:6; Rom. 11:17; Jacob 5; D&C 101:43-62). 

Thanks,

-Smac

 

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56 minutes ago, Jake Starkey said:

I am asking if we know women  "who heal their family with faith, and also use essential oils for their family's health and assuming they use the two together as a priesthood blessing"?

I do know women who wash, anoint, lay hands on another woman bless her in the name of Jesus Christ for faith, health, and healing.  I know that happens today in CA, UT, and CO.  I wish the women in my family would do that.

My ???? is, "do some women use essential oils as part of the blessing ritual?"  If so, do essential oils add any 'sacredness' to the ritual, or does it add comfort as part of the ritual?

I know of no one who uses essential oils as part of a blessing ritual. 

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56 minutes ago, Jake Starkey said:

I am asking if we know women  "who heal their family with faith, and also use essential oils for their family's health and assuming they use the two together as a priesthood blessing"?

I do know women who wash, anoint, lay hands on another woman bless her in the name of Jesus Christ for faith, health, and healing.  I know that happens today in CA, UT, and CO.  I wish the women in my family would do that.

My ???? is, "do some women use essential oils as part of the blessing ritual?"  If so, do essential oils add any 'sacredness' to the ritual, or does it add comfort as part of the ritual?

Let me ask again, smac, because you are mischaracterizing the question.  I am not asking what the Brethren think; we all understand their thinking.

I am asking women the questions above because I am curious as to what they are doing and why they are doing it.

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