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41 minutes ago, SouthernMo said:

If for whatever reason there were no COJCOLDS, but you knew what you know today, would you join another faith?  If so which one?  Why?

The thing is when I joined the Church I became a non-trinitarian. I have been to many churches. None have all the truths of this Church. None. There are other non-trinitarian sects, but essentially all of them do not view Christ as God. I believe scripturally, Yeshua is definitely God. He is YHVH Elohim with the Father. I won't go through all the scriptures which show this, but it is evident from the beginning of the word in Genesis 3. So, although I am non-trinitarian, my beliefs just don't align with those of other non-trinitarians, who always seem to be trying to show Yeshua is not God. So, there is no other sect in which I fit. I have considerable respect for the eastern orthodox churches, but some of the truths of the Church of Yeshua were lost early on, and they don't have them either. While my beliefs may not entirely align with even the modern restored Church, I live with that knowing that it is the Lord's authorized Church, and it is His will that the truth will be known.  In this way i feel you are somewhat like me. Patience grasshopper. Now is not the time to leave His Church. Your translation may depend upon it. :) 

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1 hour ago, SouthernMo said:

If for whatever reason there were no COJCOLDS, but you knew what you know today, would you join another faith?  If so which one?  Why?

I have absolutely loved attending the Catholic Mass a few times.  I loved the feeling there and REALLY loved the music.  Also, the Catholic cathedrals I've been in are absolutely some of the most beautiful buildings I've ever been in.

Also, many of their standards and beliefs mirror ours (or ours theirs....whichever way you want to look at it :) )

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Short answer, no.

Numerous Christian groups have nice teachings and a good morality.  And Buddhism and Zen have some appeal as a code to live by.

But as a truth (belief) system only Mormonism ever made any sense to me.

Edited by JLHPROF
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If the LDS Church just didn´t exist yet people ¨knew what they know today¨? How does this work? Are you asking if the LDS Church just didn´t exist but you happened to believe all of the beliefs that you gained through the LDS Church what would you do? The answer is simple for those who believe what the LDS Church has taught them - pray for the restoration of the one true Church of Jesus Christ. Maybe you might pray to know what ¨faith¨ to join in the meantime, but as long as you believe that the authority of God´s church is missing why would you join another faith?  In fact, getting back to the strangeness of this scenario - if you ¨knew what you know today¨ then wouldn´t you already have an LDS faith (without the LDS Church) and so wouldn´t it be impossible to ¨Join another faith¨ in any real way?  Just visiting and enjoying what you can all the while believing:

-missing plain and precious truths
-corrupted scriptures
-leaders fooled by the machinations of Satan
-no authority
-no true baptism
-no eternal marriage
-no prophet
-no ¨new¨ scriptures
-no temples
-non-trinitarian
-no gracers
-etc, etc, etc.

Is not ¨joining another faith¨.

In other words, if you already have a faith that excludes all other faiths then you don´t have another faith to join, or else you would no long have the faith you had, you would no longer ¨know what you know now¨.

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5 minutes ago, Joshua Valentine said:

If the LDS Church just didn´t exist yet people knew what they know today? How does this work? Are you asking if the LDS Church just didn´t exist but you happened to believe all of the beliefs that you gained through the LDS Church what would you do?

Kind of got a point here.

The truths we know from Mormonism don't exist elsewhere.  That's sort of the whole point.

We'd have to return to ignorance, not know what we know today.

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2 hours ago, SouthernMo said:

If for whatever reason there were no COJCOLDS, but you knew what you know today, would you join another faith?  If so which one?  Why?

No. I guess I would have to start my own church, based on everything I know today.

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1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

Short answer, no.

Numerous Christian groups have nice teachings and a good morality.  And Buddhism and Zen have some appeal as a code to live by.

But as a truth (belief) system only Mormonism ever made any sense to me.

So just to confirm: in this weird hypothetical situation in which the first presidency, 12, and the seventy (just for good measure) all dropped dead tomorrow, and the authority and with it God’s church were gone from the earth, you would chose not to participate in any congregation?

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59 minutes ago, Joshua Valentine said:

If the LDS Church just didn´t exist yet people ¨knew what they know today¨? How does this work? Are you asking if the LDS Church just didn´t exist but you happened to believe all of the beliefs that you gained through the LDS Church what would you do? The answer is simple for those who believe what the LDS Church has taught them - pray for the restoration of the one true Church of Jesus Christ. Maybe you might pray to know what ¨faith¨ to join in the meantime, but as long as you believe that the authority of God´s church is missing why would you join another faith?  In fact, getting back to the strangeness of this scenario - if you ¨knew what you know today¨ then wouldn´t you already have an LDS faith (without the LDS Church) and so wouldn´t it be impossible to ¨Join another faith¨ in any real way?  Just visiting and enjoying what you can all the while believing:

-missing plain and precious truths
-corrupted scriptures
-leaders fooled by the machinations of Satan
-no authority
-no true baptism
-no eternal marriage
-no prophet
-no ¨new¨ scriptures
-no temples
-non-trinitarian
-no gracers
-etc, etc, etc.

Is not ¨joining another faith¨.

In other words, if you already have a faith that excludes all other faiths then you don´t have another faith to join, or else you would no long have the faith you had, you would no longer ¨know what you know now¨.

Yes - it is a very odd hypothetical situation I am putting forward here. My question I’m trying to ask is that in the absence of (if one believes it) Jesus’ authorized vehicle with the authority and ordinances and truth, is there a faith you think would fit second best?  Or do you have more the belief of John Taylor - “The Kingdom of God or nothing...”?

You’d forgo worship or group worship all together if this COJCOLDS left the earth tomorrow?

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13 minutes ago, JAHS said:

No. I guess I would have to start my own church, based on everything I know today.

That’s cool!  You’d do your best to put together the ordinances, structure, practices and teachings of this church despite not having the authority?

Not a bad answer.

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22 minutes ago, SouthernMo said:

So just to confirm: in this weird hypothetical situation in which the first presidency, 12, and the seventy (just for good measure) all dropped dead tomorrow, and the authority and with it God’s church were gone from the earth, you would chose not to participate in any congregation?

In that improbable variation on the o/p scenario personally as a priesthood holder I would continue to build up God's kingdom myself.  I might attend the best option remaining to be a leaven in the loaf.  But I'd still be Mormon.

The Church as an organization isn't everything.  Priesthood existed before the Church was organized and will exist after its temporal structure becomes replaced with something more eternal.

 

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2 hours ago, SouthernMo said:

If for whatever reason there were no COJCOLDS, but you knew what you know today, would you join another faith?  If so which one?  Why?

Perhaps.

First choice would be no, I'd be a free agent learning from and synthesizing from all the traditions out there.  Kind of like I do now, only WITH the foundation of covenant.

Second, I am partial to Islam.  If I took that name to myself, I would do so for the purpose of showing true Islam, The Way, The Peace, The Surrender, the Mercy instead of the poisoned hack versions that are out there (according to me).  And, again, I kind of already do this, as I consider myself to be muslim in the broad sense (I did not make this up; there is tradition and precedent for it) and to be showing islam in the broad sense.

 

1 hour ago, Joshua Valentine said:

what the LDS Church has taught them - pray for the restoration of the one true Church of Jesus Christ.

For what it's worth, this is not my takeaway from my lifetime membership in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  This is your takeaway from your study thus far.  My takeaway is that I am a daughter of God and that I have worth and a destiny of joy in time and in eternity.   This is founded on eternal relationship of family and friends (Zion)--one heart, one mind.


 if you already have a faith that excludes all other faiths

OR brings them all into one where they no longer have to exclude each other; there are aspects of all traditions in the Church; the best (one may argue, but?) has been gleaned. 

Brigham Young: " “Mormonism,” so-called, embraces every principle pertaining to life and salvation, for time and eternity. No matter who has it. If the infidel has got truth it belongs to “Mormonism.” The truth and sound doctrine possessed by the sectarian world, and they have a great deal, all belong to this Church. As for their morality, many of them are, morally, just as good as we are. All that is good, lovely, and praiseworthy belongs to this Church and Kingdom. “Mormonism” includes all truth. There is no truth but what belongs to the Gospel. It is life, eternal life; it is bliss; it is the fulness of all things in the gods and in the eternities of the gods."

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1 hour ago, Joshua Valentine said:

.................................................... The answer is simple for those who believe what the LDS Church has taught them - pray for the restoration of the one true Church of Jesus Christ. Maybe you might pray to know what ¨faith¨ to join in the meantime, .............................

So, you would be in the position of the many restorationists who existed back in Joseph's day, looking for the true Church or faith.  You might well end up doing what Joseph did, praying for information in accordance with James 1:5, a reprise of Joseph's own action.  That might lead you back to Manchester, New York, and that small drumline hill with the plates in it.  And Moroni might appear to you and go through the whole rigamarole that he did with Joseph in that other dimension of space-time.

What if ....?

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John 6:68 always comes to mind when this question comes up.

 

Unto whom shall I go?  I believe and am sure where I can find the words of eternal life.

It isn't in the policies or structure of 'The Church'.  It is in the God, Jesus Christ, The Holy Ghost, and the Grace, Mercy, Atonement, and Plan that redeems mankind and exalts us, including me.   We have been given Commandments, scripture, prophets, ordinances, covenants, and limited authorities from God to bring us unto Him. 

The rest and ancillary to that

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14 minutes ago, The Mean Farmer said:

John 6:68 always comes to mind when this question comes up.

 

Unto whom shall I go?  I believe and am sure where I can find the words of eternal life.

It isn't in the policies or structure of 'The Church'.  It is in the God, Jesus Christ, The Holy Ghost, and the Grace, Mercy, Atonement, and Plan that redeems mankind and exalts us, including me.   We have been given Commandments, scripture, prophets, ordinances, covenants, and limited authorities from God to bring us unto Him. 

The rest and ancillary to that

So... Mormonism or nothing?  Join another Christian church?

Edited by SouthernMo
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5 hours ago, SouthernMo said:

If for whatever reason there were no COJCOLDS, but you knew what you know today, would you join another faith?  If so which one?  Why?

I'm assuming you mean that with no Church, I would not know those things peculiar to the Church (Book of Mormon, need for a Restoration, etc.), and I would not know them as a result of prayer and witness by the Holy Ghost (which process I learned only from the Book of Mormon). Not one who is religiously inclined, and having made my decision to join the Church in college, I don't know what life would have otherwise dealt me to motivate me sufficiently to choose a denomination. I dated Catholic girls, Jewish girls, Protestant girls, Bahai girls and Non-religious girls before I joined the Church. That they were girls was my highest priority, not their church. So who knows?

Assuming I was equally as sensitive to the light of Christ all along, the intersection of spirit and hormones probably would have landed me in whatever church the woman I would marry belonged to.

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8 hours ago, SouthernMo said:

If for whatever reason there were no COJCOLDS, but you knew what you know today, would you join another faith?  If so which one?  Why?

If one wants to be a Christian, the only other plausible option is to be a Catholic. 

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6 hours ago, SouthernMo said:

That’s cool!  You’d do your best to put together the ordinances, structure, practices and teachings of this church despite not having the authority?

Not a bad answer.

This depends on how I learned everything I know today. If everything I know today I learned from the church and it suddenly somehow disappeared along with all the church leaders and other members then with the priesthood authority I still have I would rebuild the church as much as possible. But if the church never existed how could I have learned everything I know today since most of it was given to us by revelation from latter day prophets in the church?

Edited by JAHS
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