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MorningStar

Recording Conversations in Your Own Home

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I was just visiting a friend and after we had a heart to heart, I went outside to get my daughter from the backyard and my friend said, "Oh. I forgot my husband has a security camera out here with audio. He listens to my conversations later." He has them by the front door and out back, but no signs are posted and we live in Washington State. I thought audio recordings weren't allowed without notifying people, but besides that, that just seems really abusive and controlling. Why would he need audio? We were talking mostly inside, but my voice could have carried through the open back door and we were talking about personal stuff!  😠 

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Are you kidding me?   Maybe for security a camera...but listening to conversations where his wife and family/friends are involved?  Tell me I am mistaken or have misunderstood.  This is way too much control.

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It may be breaking the law as well.

http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/washington/washington-recording-law

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Washington's wiretapping law is a "two-party consent" law. Washington makes it a crime to intercept or record a private telephone call, in-person conversation, or electronic communication unless all parties to the communication consent. See Wash. Rev. Code § 9.73.030(1). Whether a conversation or other communications is "private" depends on a number of case-specific factors, such as the subjective intention of the parties, the reasonableness of their expectation that the conversation would be private, the location of the conversation, and whether third parties were present. State v. Townsend, 57 P.3d 255, 259 (Wash. 2002). You should always get the consent of all parties before recording any conversation that common sense tells you is private.

In Washington, you can satisfy the consent requirement by "announc[ing] to all other parties engaged in the communication or conversation, in any reasonably effective manner, that such communication or conversation is about to be recorded or transmitted," so long as this announcement is also recorded. Wash. Rev. Code § 9.73.030(3). In addition, an employee of a "regularly published newspaper, magazine, wire service, radio station, or television station acting in the course of bona fide news gathering duties on a full-time or contractual or part-time basis" can establish the consent of the party recorded even without an announcement if he or she uses a recording or transmitting device that is "readily apparent or obvious to the speakers." Wash. Rev. Code § 9.73.030(4).

 

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16 minutes ago, Calm said:

That is creepy.

I could see having it for security reasons, but listening to normal conversation?

Utah is a state in which one-party recording without the knowledge of the other(s) is legal, for now:  https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/02/06/mormon-church-interested-in-bill-that-could-prevent-recording-bishop-interviews/ .

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That is legit Screwy Mclouie

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The man also tells her what/how much she can eat and takes food out of her hands! 😠 

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13 minutes ago, MorningStar said:

The man also tells her what/how much she can eat and takes food out of her hands! 😠 

Bas#!%*!! Oops sorry, that's the first thing I thought. 

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8 hours ago, Calm said:

Or it may not be.  

There are exceptions in the law for certain situations (see RCW 9.73.030😞

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(2) Notwithstanding subsection (1) of this section, wire communications or conversations (a) of an emergency nature, such as the reporting of a fire, medical emergency, crime, or disaster, or (b) which convey threats of extortion, blackmail, bodily harm, or other unlawful requests or demands, or (c) which occur anonymously or repeatedly or at an extremely inconvenient hour, or (d) which relate to communications by a hostage holder or barricaded person as defined in RCW 70.85.100, whether or not conversation ensues, may be recorded with the consent of one party to the conversation.

As I've mentioned in other threads, I'm from Washington state.  One of my adult sons still living at home was making occasional threats of possible harm from time to time (he seems to have paranoid personality disorder), in which he would come to me while I was alone, and express "concerns" of his about one of his brothers, and would make threats such as burning down the house and hunting family members down.  No witnesses except me, and how would I get something done about it by law enforcement?  So I installed a voice recording app on my smartphone, and whenever he would come into my room when I was otherwise alone, I would make a show as if I were checking my messages, while starting the voice recorder.  I would keep these on file on my computer in case he had been making threats.  Finally, after one particular scary interaction I decided I had had enough, and called 911. The police came, took him into custody upon my bare accusation, but asked if I could substantiate my claim.  I got out the phone and navigated to the conversation that night and played it for the officer.  And he took him away.  I did not get in trouble for recording without my son's consent because the law made an exception.

BUT what the person in the OP is experiencing is absolutely NOT permitted, at least as far as I can tell.  This also sounds like an abusive relationship.  And creepy as hell.

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7 hours ago, MorningStar said:

The man also tells her what/how much she can eat and takes food out of her hands! 😠 

Wow!  That she even allows such action is stunning... Needless to say, I wouldn't stand for this for one second...

GG

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Mental cruelty is a kind of meanness where a woman would rather be hit....than full of fear like this.   Keep an eye out!!

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32 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Mental cruelty is a kind of meanness where a woman would rather be hit....than full of fear like this.   Keep an eye out!!

He's playing all sorts of head games with her and she just puts on a smile and says she's given up. :( For instance, he goes out and plays a sport with friends frequently and when she supports him in doing that (although she wishes he would play less), he calls her and says she needs her to ask him to not play. I said, "Is he trying to get out of playing with them?" No, his feelings are hurt that she's letting him play so much. She's danged if she does, danged if she doesn't. He's been doing a project on the computer every night and so she does her own thing. He then snaps at her that all she does is watch TV and she never spends any time with him. What the heck! 

When she told me we were being recorded, I wanted to turn to the camera and tell him to kiss my butt! I can't think of a reason why you would need audio for security cameras. So you can hear the burglar grunting when he's trying to break in? Obviously he wants to know what his wife is doing at all times. 😠 Guess we'll have to have private conversations at the park. 

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1 hour ago, MorningStar said:

He's playing all sorts of head games with her and she just puts on a smile and says she's given up. :( For instance, he goes out and plays a sport with friends frequently and when she supports him in doing that (although she wishes he would play less), he calls her and says she needs her to ask him to not play. I said, "Is he trying to get out of playing with them?" No, his feelings are hurt that she's letting him play so much. She's danged if she does, danged if she doesn't. He's been doing a project on the computer every night and so she does her own thing. He then snaps at her that all she does is watch TV and she never spends any time with him. What the heck! 

When she told me we were being recorded, I wanted to turn to the camera and tell him to kiss my butt! I can't think of a reason why you would need audio for security cameras. So you can hear the burglar grunting when he's trying to break in? Obviously he wants to know what his wife is doing at all times. 😠 Guess we'll have to have private conversations at the park. 

Bring up the Susan Powell case. Maybe they can work things out if he understood how foolish he's been. Creating such a sick or unhealthy relationship.

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It is their home, and if all parties in their home know, then the question is whether they can do it without posting a sign. Did you ask the person where the recording was so you could retrieve it?    Yup, it is controlling (and if the others in the family don't agree), then possibly abusive too.   I do not know of any case that discussed recording in one's own home that tangentially recorded people who came to it.  .   Can you have a reasonable expectation of privacy in someone else's home?

IInterestingly, this sounds more like a wiretapping case: the person recording isn't there.  That may be unlawful (apart from whether a recording consent law can be enforced inside someone's home against the homeowners).    You can find out if you make a police report.

 

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On 5/22/2019 at 4:21 PM, MorningStar said:

I was just visiting a friend and after we had a heart to heart, I went outside to get my daughter from the backyard and my friend said, "Oh. I forgot my husband has a security camera out here with audio. He listens to my conversations later." He has them by the front door and out back, but no signs are posted and we live in Washington State. I thought audio recordings weren't allowed without notifying people, but besides that, that just seems really abusive and controlling. Why would he need audio? We were talking mostly inside, but my voice could have carried through the open back door and we were talking about personal stuff!  😠 

That's messed up.

19 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Bas#!%*!! Oops sorry, that's the first thing I thought. 

Nicer than I would have been....

6 hours ago, MorningStar said:

He's playing all sorts of head games with her and she just puts on a smile and says she's given up. :( For instance, he goes out and plays a sport with friends frequently and when she supports him in doing that (although she wishes he would play less), he calls her and says she needs her to ask him to not play. I said, "Is he trying to get out of playing with them?" No, his feelings are hurt that she's letting him play so much. She's danged if she does, danged if she doesn't. He's been doing a project on the computer every night and so she does her own thing. He then snaps at her that all she does is watch TV and she never spends any time with him. What the heck! 

When she told me we were being recorded, I wanted to turn to the camera and tell him to kiss my butt! I can't think of a reason why you would need audio for security cameras. So you can hear the burglar grunting when he's trying to break in? Obviously he wants to know what his wife is doing at all times. 😠 Guess we'll have to have private conversations at the park. 

Mind if I ask, what sport?  I do one competitively, know for many that's literally part of their lives, they quit and it's like you've taken a vital organ away. 

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On 5/22/2019 at 6:21 PM, MorningStar said:

I was just visiting a friend and after we had a heart to heart, I went outside to get my daughter from the backyard and my friend said, "Oh. I forgot my husband has a security camera out here with audio. He listens to my conversations later." He has them by the front door and out back, but no signs are posted and we live in Washington State. I thought audio recordings weren't allowed without notifying people, but besides that, that just seems really abusive and controlling. Why would he need audio? We were talking mostly inside, but my voice could have carried through the open back door and we were talking about personal stuff!  😠 

Well, I am officially creeped out by this. Did she tell you why he is doing this? People can record anything in their home, the question is why would they want too? I can understand you being upset finding out after you guys were sharing, “personal stuff”. Personally, I would make sure if you ever want to speak with her in the future, do it at Church, or in your home or car. 

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36 minutes ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

Well, I am officially creeped out by this. Did she tell you why he is doing this? People can record anything in their home, the question is why would they want too? I can understand you being upset finding out after you guys were sharing, “personal stuff”. Personally, I would make sure if you ever want to speak with her in the future, do it at Church, or in your home or car. 

In our state, for phone conversations it's a two party consent law - so both parties have to consent to being recorded and it's illegal for a third party to record. I've never heard of people using audio for security cameras. 

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18 hours ago, MorningStar said:

In our state, for phone conversations it's a two party consent law - so both parties have to consent to being recorded and it's illegal for a third party to record. I've never heard of people using audio for security cameras. 

It is odd, since “security cameras” are used to record the presence of someone for safety purposes, not audio. I understand your point, it is certainly a grey area, and I can see no reason to record someone in your “their” own home. 

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1 hour ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

It is odd, since “security cameras” are used to record the presence of someone for safety purposes, not audio. I understand your point, it is certainly a grey area, and I can see no reason to record someone in your “their” own home. 

With the cameras being outside, I think that's even more problematic, because it could pick up conversations of neighbors without their knowledge. 

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5 hours ago, MorningStar said:

With the cameras being outside, I think that's even more problematic, because it could pick up conversations of neighbors without their knowledge. 

There are companies like “RING”, who use their doorbells and lights as both cameras, lights, and speakers. These are used to aid someone to answer the door if one is not at home, and they activated with motion detectors. I will soon be putting a system on my home. This way when I am alone, I can answer from my chair, and not have to hurriedly get to my door with a walker, in tow. Also, if I am not home, my wife and I can see who it is, and speak with them, this way they know they are being watched. However, using cameras, for video, and listening devices all the time, sounds too much like a KGB operation in Russia or China, or maybe a wife or husband, who have serious trust issues. But, to each their own I guess, I would find in so painstaking and tedious to monitor the daily mundane interactions, between family and friends.  

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People paranoid like that are also usually cheaters. That he is so paranoid about her saw a lot about him.

He is one of those people who would make the world a better place by falling into a wood chipper.

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