Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
lostindc

Sad Fast and Testimony Meeting in Virginia

Recommended Posts

5 minutes ago, ALarson said:

I would try to speak out in more productive ways.  Maybe travel around and volunteer to speak to schools, church groups, etc., and tell my story.  Let them know what you wish you'd known.  Talk about preventative measures and warning signs.   Just a few ideas.....

There are so many things that a Mother of a victim of sexual abuse could do that would be more beneficial (to her and to others) than what was done here, IMO. 

Do you think she did any good?  (Honest question)

I don’t see immediate good. Maybe there was. Maybe some parents will be more cautious. Maybe someone at LDSHQ will view this video and decide that something needs to happen.

But, I stand by my position that there is no LDS structure in place (that I’m aware of) to acceptably address challenges beyond the local level.

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, 3DOP said:

You mean that they won't be ready to escort the kook to the psycho ward next time? How can someone possibly think that they are helping people by interrupting their public religious exercises? Even if she wasn't lying, it was inappropriate, and she better not try it any of the churches I have ever attended. In a way, I was edified, by the gentle patience of the apparent leaders and the congregation. It was handled with dignity this time, but repetition surely could not be tolerable to your Sunday worship could it? That could happen again and again?

Lol.  This is why...when members continue to attack the messenger and ignore the message, the church continues to unravel.  

Edited by lostindc
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, provoman said:

A staged event to highjack testimony meeting....I think the singing was appropriate.

And did you know McKenna Denson was literally front row and center filming the whole thing. Now what are the chances the she shows up randomly at a ward sits front row and starts filming?Did you know Mckenna Deson said the two ladies were wired for sound (microphones).

 

What if McKenna Denson was filming an activist warning about civil rights issues, do we disregard the civil rights issues?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
6 minutes ago, lostindc said:

What if McKenna Denson was filming an activist warning about civil rights issues, do we disregard the civil rights issues?

That analogy doesn't hold for obvious reasons.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

But the messenger also needs to find an appropriate way to deliver the message. The delivery of a message can ruin the reception of a message -- that's just the facts of rhetoric. If the purpose was to inform the audience, why do it in such a way that the audience feels ambushed/attacked/etc. And why do it with somehow who is virulently anti-Mormon? All of these things drown out the message.

Now, if the point was to create a sensational video showing how Mormons will cover-up child abuse by drowning out a mother in song, then maybe this works. But don't try to say the purpose was to inform when the actual action doesn't match the purpose.

If you want to inform, then you have to do it in a way where people will listen and trust you. This is basic rhetoric -- there needs to be ethos. Her association with that new name guy destroys the ethos. Take a glance at some of the comments on the youtube video and you will see why Mormons will write this off.

What’s the Church’s guidance regarding how the messenger can appropriately deliver the message?

Also, yes, you’re correct, Mormons will turn this off kind of like a light switch and this Includes the members in my family.

 

Lastly, what’s the end game for these two moms?  You say it’s not to inform, what’s the end game?

 

 

 

Edited by lostindc

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, MiserereNobis said:

But the messenger also needs to find an appropriate way to deliver the message. The delivery of a message can ruin the reception of a message -- that's just the facts of rhetoric. If the purpose was to inform the audience, why do it in such a way that the audience feels ambushed/attacked/etc. And why do it with somehow who is virulently anti-Mormon? All of these things drown out the message.

Now, if the point was to create a sensational video showing how Mormons will cover-up child abuse by drowning out a mother in song, then maybe this works. But don't try to say the purpose was to inform when the actual action doesn't match the purpose.

If you want to inform, then you have to do it in a way where people will listen and trust you. This is basic rhetoric -- there needs to be ethos. Her association with that new name guy destroys the ethos. Take a glance at some of the comments on the youtube video and you will see why Mormons will write this off.

Very, very well said.

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

That analogy doesn't hold for obvious reasons.

Explain, genuinely curious.

Share this post


Link to post
18 minutes ago, lostindc said:

What if McKenna Denson was filming an activist warning about civil rights issues, do we disregard the civil rights issues?

I think singing is an appropriate response to someone who purposefully schemes to disrupt and abuse a religious meeting

Share this post


Link to post
9 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

I have no idea; I'm not LDS. But staging an event orchestrated by an anti-Mormon (I rarely use that term, but new name noah fits the bill) to create clips for a documentary is not delivering a message.

The last one of these videos I watched here was new name noah and someone prancing down the street heading to church drinking coffee acting all giddy that they were about to disrupt a meeting.

Their purpose is shown by their tactics. They are not intending to deliver a message to help people. They are intending to disrupt and discredit.

Don’t you think you might want to know if there’s a solid way of getting heard by leadership before commenting?  Or do you often comment and give advice in areas you don’t have a knowledge base?

I would think 40 plus counts of child molestation is an area where you might want to pause and think before typing.

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, provoman said:

I think singing is an appropriate response to someone who purposefully schemes to disrupt and abuse a religious meeting

Sad that the leaders didn’t act and alert the congregation of a sex predator.  If we can sing, we can likely talk, maybe a warning could’ve saved a whole new batch of victims.  

 

I am surprised that many can focus on a meeting disruption then the child molestation.

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

It's interesting to consider what would happen if a victim of priest sex abuse interrupted Mass like this. What would the proper response be?

MN...I have been at Mass when 911 has been called because someone has needed emergency medical assistance. Father continued. The person who needs medical help would not have been more aided spiritually or physically if Father had stopped the Mass, even to say some ex tempore prayer for her or him. The ill person needs Father to finish! I have never seen anybody die at Mass, but it wouldn't be the worst way to go would it? Heh. I suppose I was comparing this episode with that and found it to be outrageous. 

I am remembering my Catholic teacher in 5th grade. I had never been to church in my life. Maybe somebody was misbehaving, acting inappropriately in class? I can't remember any details. One time, for some reason, he spoke about how impossible it would be for someone to get up and interrupt the Catholic ceremony...the Mass (still pre Vat. II, heh). I still remember the mysterious something that he was talking about, to which I could not relate. God bless you Mr. Wellman. A seed planted. I had not thought of this for a long, long time.

Edited by 3DOP
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

isn't there a charge of disturbing the peace or something in the US? I'd be all for taking this person and the people behind it who are making a buck off of the pain of others  on a trip to Sue City

Share this post


Link to post
12 minutes ago, lostindc said:

Don’t you think you might want to know if there’s a solid way of getting heard by leadership before commenting?  Or do you often comment and give advice in areas you don’t have a knowledge base?

I would think 40 plus counts of child molestation is an area where you might want to pause and think before typing.

My area of expertise is rhetoric. That is all I have been commenting on.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, ALarson said:

Watching this video is just sad.  My heart goes out to those Mothers (and also to McKenna Denson).....but they should stay as far away from New Name Noah as possible.  Why on earth would they hook up with him?  They should have a voice and should be able to tell their stories if that helps them heal (or if it warns or protects others from a known predator), but doing this was so counter productive and only makes them look bad.  

I feel that NNN just preys on them and knows they are bitter or angry and that they want to lash out (making them easy to influence and vulnerable).  Maybe that's not the case, but they should stop being influenced by him and put their voices and efforts behind more productive ways to educate and prevent abuse.  This is just hard to watch.

I feel the same.

Share this post


Link to post
36 minutes ago, lostindc said:

Lol.  This is why...when members continue to attack the messenger and ignore the message, the church continues to unravel.  

Lol? You titled the meeting as "sad". So...you approve of a sad meeting? No wait. You find it sad that worshipers are unreceptive to their religious observances being interrupted? Okay...I can't relate to that. Why does "the message" have to be delivered during religious services?

I just got done explaining how I perceive this as a Catholic in another post. From my perspective, the reaction is tame. She would not have gotten five words out of her mouth where I go to Mass. She wouldn't be unnecessarily manhandled. She would be removed as gently as possible. Nobody is allowed to interrupt. I have thought about what I would do if somebody came forward with a firearm, and I see myself coming forward, probabIy following, but if need be, leading several dozen men while Father, with his back to the unimportant action, continues what is of utmost importance. I said she was a kook. Maybe that was too strong. I was thinking Catholic...She was rational enough to calculate correctly that she wouldn't be stopped. Still...I trust they will be more ready in future.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

 

24 minutes ago, lostindc said:

Sad that the leaders didn’t act and alert the congregation of a sex predator.  If we can sing, we can likely talk, maybe a warning could’ve saved a whole new batch of victims.  

 

I am surprised that many can focus on a meeting disruption then the child molestation.

NO one here is putting a meeting disruption before child molestation. 

I know nothing about this case. I can't comment on anything about the child molestation. I can't comment on who was warned or who was not warned and when or anything about the case. I would bet the majority of us knew nothing about it till you posted the video. The only thing we can really comment on is what is shown in the video and how it is being portrayed by you.  

You want to talk about what we can do to help children, mothers, perpetrators etc involved in child abuse and find solutions like southern mo talked about then start a thread about it, but don't go putting up a video like this, imply a lack of compassion of those in the ward and then imply the rest of us who take issue with what you said and what was in the video care more about what happened then those who are abused. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...