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lostindc

Sad Fast and Testimony Meeting in Virginia

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Posted (edited)

A very sad fast and testimony meeting.  It's hard to understand why the congregation starts singing Jesus Christ lives as a mother pours her heart out about her children getting molested in a highly preventable situation.  If they were in my ward I would've shown a lot more compassion and gave them an ear. I am very sorry for what these families went through and I hope that we can show them love just as Christ did for us.

 

 

Edited by lostindc
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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Rain said:

It's pretty simple. The woman puts the congregation in a very awkward place especially if they have their own children there and there was apparently offensive language (from the bleeps).

Even though what she is saying is not in the spirit of testimony meeting the bishopric member doesn't get up till she starts saying whatever was bleeped out. 

He speaks to her about about discussing what she is saying (which gives ear to her), but she argues and continues to say whatever she is saying.

By all means we should give others compassion. It is something I teach my children everyday. 

The ward is not refusing to give it. They were purposely placed in an awkward position and honestly it irritates me that you would misrepresent what is happening here and imply the ward members have a lack of compassion. 

Was there offensive language or did the editor of the video cut names?

I think she was warning the membership of what happened.  It's got to be heartbreaking.  I hope if you're in the same position that people will give you an ear.

I wonder if the real awkward position in this situation is that ward leadership knew a member had numerous accusations of molestation and they didn't inform the ward and let that person have interactions with youth (up to 40 plus accusations of molestation).

Edited by lostindc

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, lostindc said:

Was there offensive language or did the editor of the video cut names?

I think she was warning the membership of what happened.  It's got to be heartbreaking.  I hope if you're in the same position that people will give you an ear.

I wonder if the real awkward position in this situation is that ward leadership knew a member had numerous accusations of molestation and they didn't inform the ward and let that person have interactions with youth (up to 40 plus accusations of molestation).

Do you know much about this case?  Was this man a member of this ward who was being given access to youth or children?  

They do state his name and I'd just like to know more background here (court cases, records, etc.).   I think a ward needs to be warned (if that was taking place in the ward), but there are other/better ways to do it, IMO.

ETA:

After reading stemelbow's post below, I realize that I am aware of this case.  I have to believe most ward members are familiar with it too?

Edited by ALarson
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This has been national news.  Mostly likely the whole ward knows something about it.  And it's likely they all disagree with her and take the Church's position that the abuse was unfortunate but was done outside of the Church's purview, or whatever.  I mean it's apparent that the parents of the abuser knew something and yet apparently let him go and babysit kids.  It seems apparent the local leaders failed.  I think it's certainly something worth making  a big stinking point about though.  But I also get that the members felt disrespected and perhaps saw this as a public show rather than a cry for help.  That new name noah posted the video and gets views, they probably aren't that far off.  

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11 minutes ago, lostindc said:

Was there offensive language or did the editor of the video cut names?

I don't know. You may be right on that part.

11 minutes ago, lostindc said:

I think she was warning the membership of what happened.

I get it, but that is definitely not what testimony is for an certainly not with children present and done in that way.

 

11 minutes ago, lostindc said:

 It's got to be heartbreaking.

Yes, it is, which is why I said we should give her compassion.

11 minutes ago, lostindc said:

 I hope if you're in the same position that people will give you an ear.

You can tell me if I'm wrong, but this feels like an implication that I wouldn't listen or that don't understand what it means to need to be listened to. 

11 minutes ago, lostindc said:

I wonder if the real awkward position in this situation is that ward leadership knew a member had numerous accusations of molestation and they didn't inform the ward and let that person have interactions with youth (up to 40 plus accusations of molestation).

It wouldn't be "the real awkward position". It would be one of the awkward positions. This occasion being one of them and your wondering (if it is true) the other one. 

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Posted (edited)

I predict this will only happen more in the future. The idea that Mormons follow and trust the leadership of the church in their decisions will fade precipitously.  Yet, there is not an accepted or structured way to express grievances and challenges outside of leadership channels.

How feasible would it be to have a 1-800 number to someone at the church office building open to ALL members of the church to express concerns with the assurance that the issue would be reviewed and responded to?

Today’s LDS leadership system is a vacuum. If you have a problem with a decision from the stake president, I don’t think there is another outlet structured and supported by the church for one to turn to.

And with less immediate trust of leadership and easy access to platforms of activism, we will see more and more until something changes.

Edited by SouthernMo
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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, provoman said:

A staged event to highjack testimony meeting....I think the singing was appropriate.

And did you know McKenna Denson was literally front row and center filming the whole thing. Now what are the chances the she shows up randomly at a ward sits front row and starts filming?Did you know Mckenna Deson said the two ladies were wired for sound (microphones).

 

Denson is doing a documentary with some others.  The director was the person who went with her to the 'private' meeting with Bishop's local leaders...iirc his name is Krok,  I suspect this will be one of the clips for the documentary and there will likely be more if there aren't already, at least until there are enough for the film.

The director posted awhile back "how to make an antimormon movie" on instagram, so it is understandable that NNN is involved  imo.

Edited by Calm
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Posted (edited)

This was most definitely a staged event. I'm always curious on this kind of thing if the ward response made this a bigger deal and prolonged the speaker's statement, or if it would be better to let them go and then sit down. I have no way of knowing but I suspect the women were prepared to take a significant period of time. If someone stood up and shared a brief 2-3 minute statement I'd feel a little differently about it.

In any case, I think the Bishop handled it pretty well. It would be a nightmare to manage that kind of thing in a productive way. On the other hand, the guy at the end that just about jumped the pew to take the woman's phone, did not handle it well.

I expect we'll continue to see these kinds of events because there are people who have something to say and they have no way of saying it directly to top church leaders. I suspect the Q15 are probably being made aware of this situation, so in a sense the protesters were successful. I'm of the opinion that there is a severe communication problem in the church where there is a wall of separation between the average member and leaders who are decision makers. Although I hate to see these kinds of spectacles, I can understand the desperation some people may feel to be heard. It seems clear to me that what these ladies did isn't the most productive or appropriate way to communicate with leaders, and I think there's an opportunity for the church to bridge this communication gap.

ETA- Southern MO said it much better than I did :) 

 

Edited by HappyJackWagon
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4 minutes ago, ALarson said:

Watching this video is just sad.  My heart goes out to those Mothers (and also to McKenna Denson).....but they should stay as far away from New Name Noah as possible.  Why on earth would they hook up with him?  They should have a voice and should be able to tell their stories if that helps them heal (or warns others if necessary from a known predator), but doing this was so counter productive and only makes them look bad.  

I feel that NNN just preys on them and knows they are bitter or angry and want to lash out (making them easy to influence and vulnerable).  Maybe that's not the case, but they should stop being influenced by him and put their voice and efforts behind more productive ways to educate and prevent abuse.  This is just hard to watch.

I don't understand the association with Mike Norton (NNN) it is not like secret cameras and such are not available to the public to purchase. And I agree that there are more productive ways to act.

I am sure the mothers are angry and hurt as well as the children.

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4 minutes ago, 3DOP said:

You mean that they won't be ready to escort the kook to the psycho ward next time? How can someone possibly think that they are helping people by interrupting their public religious exercises? Even if she wasn't lying, it was inappropriate, and she better not try it any of the churches I have ever attended. In a way, I was edified, by the gentle patience of the apparent leaders and the congregation. It was handled with dignity this time, but repetition surely could not be tolerable to your Sunday worship could it? That could happen again and again?

Yes, I firmly believe that seeing more of this in inevitable.

I get that you don’t like it.  I totally understand that the majority of LDS congregants don’t want this. Neither do I!

Instead of whining about an individual and calling them a name, what would you do to actually address this real issue?

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The sexual abuse hotline was set up, and is managed today by the same law firm that defends the church from accusations and suits brought against the church.  Kirton McConkie.

Imagine living in a society in which the police station was run by criminal defense attorneys actively retained by police officers.  Would you trust that system?

I’m not staying the church is criminal.  But, it is an ineffectively designed system if the intent is to protect anyone from the church, or give a credible outlet for reporting.

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11 minutes ago, provoman said:

And I agree that there are more productive ways to act.

Put yourself in this mother’s shoes.

What would you do?

Honest question. Let’s focus on solutions.

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14 minutes ago, 3DOP said:

You mean that they won't be ready to escort the kook to the psycho ward next time? How can someone possibly think that they are helping people by interrupting their public religious exercises? Even if she wasn't lying, it was inappropriate, and she better not try it any of the churches I have ever attended. In a way, I was edified, by the gentle patience of the apparent leaders and the congregation. It was handled with dignity this time, but repetition surely could not be tolerable to your Sunday worship could it? That could happen again and again?

It's interesting to consider what would happen if a victim of priest sex abuse interrupted Mass like this. What would the proper response be?

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Posted (edited)

If I had been an audience member I would have had to excuse myself.  I might have sent her a note later in the week to express my sorrow for her pain.  

I don’t tolerate public tension well.  

When cody Judy threatened to bomb president hunter and the congregation started singing I walked out.  Not my thing, to sing away the bad man. 

If I were that mom, I’d prosecute , inform the bishop, tell my friends, move my family to a new ward, and see a therapist and have my kids see one as well.  Public display is not my style under any circumstance. 

 

Forgive me, I didn’t watch.  I think I got the gyst from the title.  

Edited by MustardSeed
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7 minutes ago, Calm said:

After a lawsuit has been settled and national news has been carrying it for awhile?

Yes. Question directed at @provoman.

You know/believe there was a lack of protection given, and the settlement did not reveal any changes in structure or procedure for moving forward.

What would you do?  Shut up and trust the brethren?

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Singing songs don't save kids....they just don;t,  I imagine this was of course very upsetting...but what can you do???  People will not listen...just about have to shout out for save your children.  I admire them..and hopefully it doesn't have to be done this way ever again.  A shout out to the Bishop who tried..but let them speak.  To anyone who takes someone else's phone...he should reflect alittle more perhaps.

I hate to see this...but what can you do??

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