Popular Post The Nehor Posted May 14, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted May 14, 2019 1 hour ago, SouthernMo said: Yes, I firmly believe that seeing more of this in inevitable. I get that you don’t like it. I totally understand that the majority of LDS congregants don’t want this. Neither do I! Instead of whining about an individual and calling them a name, what would you do to actually address this real issue? Put a trap door behind the pulpit that drops you into a tank filled with sharks. We could also use this for people who tell their boring life stories or go over five minutes with their testimony so it solves multiple problems. 5 Link to comment
bluebell Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 1 hour ago, lostindc said: Lol. This is why...when members continue to attack the messenger and ignore the message, the church continues to unravel. Not sure if you are aware, but 3DOP isn't a member of the church. 3 Link to comment
Popular Post The Nehor Posted May 14, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted May 14, 2019 1 hour ago, lostindc said: Lol. This is why...when members continue to attack the messenger and ignore the message, the church continues to unravel. We have been told the Church is unraveling or its historically accurate equivalent since the 1830s. I hope you will forgive me if I am not prone to hand wringing about this characterization of our proclaimed two century old eternally imminent demise. 8 Link to comment
Avatar4321 Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 1 hour ago, SouthernMo said: Put yourself in this mother’s shoes. What would you do? Honest question. Let’s focus on solutions. Forgive the offenders Link to comment
Avatar4321 Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 12 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Put a trap door behind the pulpit that drops you into a tank filled with sharks. We could also use this for people who tell their boring life stories or go over five minutes with their testimony so it solves multiple problems. Will the sharks have lasers on their head? 1 Link to comment
The Nehor Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 Just now, Avatar4321 said: Will the sharks have lasers on their head? That will be left to the discretion of local leadership. 2 Link to comment
Avatar4321 Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 1 hour ago, lostindc said: Lol. This is why...when members continue to attack the messenger and ignore the message, the church continues to unravel. The Church is unraveling now? News to me Link to comment
SouthernMo Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 Just now, Avatar4321 said: Forgive the offenders I totally get that. But there is the issue at hand that Michael Jensen was allowed back into the ward under investigation for some serious stuff against children, and no one was warned. I don't get the impression that she was directing her message at the offender, but rather at the system that failed her - how the church knew about Michael Jensen's charges, but seemed to (I don't know the details) do nothing to warn families. Then, he offended again while knowing he was under investigation! I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just stating the issue is more complex that one woman failing to forgive someone who harmed her children. Link to comment
Avatar4321 Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Calm said: People will listen much, much more if you give them a choice to listen and don't instead create a feeling of being ambushed. Exactly. Ambushing people, profaning what they hold sacred is now how to persuade people to listen. Why do so many struggle with D&C 121? Link to comment
Calm Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 21 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Put a trap door behind the pulpit that drops you into a tank filled with sharks. We could also use this for people who tell their boring life stories or go over five minutes with their testimony so it solves multiple problems. Get one's money's worth. Wouldnt even have to put it in all the wards...just enough to make people wonder. Quite cost efficient. 2 Link to comment
Popular Post 3DOP Posted May 14, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted May 14, 2019 17 minutes ago, bluebell said: Not sure if you are aware, but 3DOP isn't a member of the church. So kenngo "hearts" that "3DOP isn't a member of the church"? Thanks a lot old pal! I will try not to return the sentiment...heh. 😋 6 Link to comment
webbles Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 46 minutes ago, SouthernMo said: I totally get that. But there is the issue at hand that Michael Jensen was allowed back into the ward under investigation for some serious stuff against children, and no one was warned. I don't get the impression that she was directing her message at the offender, but rather at the system that failed her - how the church knew about Michael Jensen's charges, but seemed to (I don't know the details) do nothing to warn families. Then, he offended again while knowing he was under investigation! I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just stating the issue is more complex that one woman failing to forgive someone who harmed her children. It's even more complicated that. When he was sent back from his mission and returned to the ward, the "serious stuff against children" was mostly known then as "actually just a few instances of touching the children over their clothing that the victims initially considered accidental" (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2018/01/17/sexual-abuse-case-against-mormon-church-scheduled-to-begin-friday/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.aa145b8a4d4b). So, even though he was under investigation, they still weren't sure how bad it was. 2 Link to comment
strappinglad Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 I get the sense that some here will not be satisfied until the church authorises the following policy. Anyone who is so much as vaguely accused of inappropriate behavior will immediately be held down by local leaders, have their head shaved and a large X carved into their forehead. Link to comment
SouthernMo Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 6 minutes ago, strappinglad said: I get the sense that some here will not be satisfied until the church authorises the following policy. Anyone who is so much as vaguely accused of inappropriate behavior will immediately be held down by local leaders, have their head shaved and a large X carved into their forehead. Maybe there is something in between? I’m certainly not saying anything close to what you’re suggesting. Only pointing out that in this case, something was missed by an individual or “the system,” and people got hurt. Link to comment
The Nehor Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 19 minutes ago, SouthernMo said: Maybe there is something in between? I’m certainly not saying anything close to what you’re suggesting. Only pointing out that in this case, something was missed by an individual or “the system,” and people got hurt. Do we know enough about this case to even be sure of that? 2 Link to comment
lostindc Posted May 15, 2019 Author Share Posted May 15, 2019 1 hour ago, The Nehor said: We have been told the Church is unraveling or its historically accurate equivalent since the 1830s. I hope you will forgive me if I am not prone to hand wringing about this characterization of our proclaimed two century old eternally imminent demise. I wonder how many years the three nephites has to hear it. Link to comment
lostindc Posted May 15, 2019 Author Share Posted May 15, 2019 2 hours ago, MiserereNobis said: I don't know. I'm pretty sure what the endgame is for new name Noah. They shouldn't be linked up with him if they truly want to inform. Here's an analogy. There's a meeting of the chapter of the NAACP. One of the leaders had covered up sexual abuse. During the meeting, the mother of the victim arrives to tell her story. She interrupts the purpose of the meeting to do so. So far, so good. But then it turns out that she is wired and being filmed by the KKK who are producing a video to show how terrible the NAACP is. The clip is posted on the KKK youtube channel where there are literally thousands of comments saying things like how stupid black people are and how terrible civil rights organizations are and how the KKK was right all along. Now, what would a member of the NAACP think about all of this? Would you blame them for saying, "that whole thing was just set up by a bunch of racists who hate us." Would you condemn them for disregarding it? It's all about rhetoric. This was an epic fail to convince Mormons of something, and it's disingenuous to blame Mormons for the failure of the message. I graduated from the top rhetoric department in the United States. I thought you said rhetoric is your game? Link to comment
SouthernMo Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 25 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Do we know enough about this case to even be sure of that? No, but there seems to be enough evidence to me to know that there seems to be important steps that could have been made. Link to comment
The Nehor Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, SouthernMo said: No, but there seems to be enough evidence to me to know that there seems to be important steps that could have been made. Evidence of what? If people coming to the pulpit and saying something is evidence that something happened I am obliged to believe that angels came down and reorganized a lady’s mirrors on at least a weekly basis, that there is a secret organization of apostates that meet in the tunnels under Salt Lake called the Twelve apostates who meet with Lucifer in person on a monthly basis to plot the downfall of the church, that the visiting aliens who abduct people are real and wear temple garments, and that the BYU Jerusalem center was secretly dedicated as a temple in advance. Edited May 15, 2019 by The Nehor 1 Link to comment
Popular Post The Nehor Posted May 15, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted May 15, 2019 16 minutes ago, lostindc said: I graduated from the top rhetoric department in the United States. I thought you said rhetoric is your game? If starting this thread was inspired by the skills you learned in that department you may have a case to get your student loans dismissed for educational malpractice. 6 Link to comment
MiserereNobis Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 20 minutes ago, lostindc said: I graduated from the top rhetoric department in the United States. I thought you said rhetoric is your game? Wow, really? Your posts here are surprising then, since you are not engaging with my analysis of the rhetoric of the situation at all. I'm not doubting you, I'm just curious as to why you won't discuss rhetoric then. Why didn't you quote my post about the Aristotelian appeals and show me where my analysis is off? 1 Link to comment
MiserereNobis Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 (edited) 52 minutes ago, lostindc said: I graduated from the top rhetoric department in the United States. I thought you said rhetoric is your game? Let me add: what department is it? And why are you relying on credentials instead of offering arguments? ETA: There is a bit of irony in someone claiming to be a top rhetorician who commits a basic logical fallacy Edited May 15, 2019 by MiserereNobis 4 Link to comment
ksfisher Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, The Nehor said: Put a trap door behind the pulpit that drops you into a tank filled with sharks. We could also use this for people who tell their boring life stories or go over five minutes with their testimony so it solves multiple problems. Just wanted to hear him say it. Edited May 15, 2019 by ksfisher sp 1 Link to comment
SouthernMo Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 32 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Evidence of what? If people coming to the pulpit and saying something is evidence that something happened I am obliged to believe that angels came down and reorganized a lady’s mirrors on at least a weekly basis, that there is a secret organization of apostates that meet in the tunnels under Salt Lake called the Twelve apostates who meet with Lucifer in person on a monthly basis to plot the downfall of the church, that the visiting aliens who abduct people are real and wear temple garments, and that the BYU Jerusalem center was secretly dedicated as a temple in advance. There is far more about this Michael Jensen situation that one can learn beyond what this video recording offers. Link to comment
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