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bsjkki

Bishopric confession

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1 minute ago, blueglass said:

When I was in a regional training with Elder Renlund a stake president visible frustrated asked about questions related to use of pornography in temple recommend interviews as he felt he was getting mixed messages from the brethren on this issue.  Elder Renlund said, no that he was not to deviate from the temple recommend questions as they are written notwithstanding what other individual leaders may say.  When a 15 year-old girl asked me in an interview what sins were to be confessed to priesthood leaders I said, "good question - ask your parents."  Her father was on the stake presidency, and her mother was an lds family services therapist.  When I asked in stake council about worthiness interviews after the stake president reprimanded all the bishoprics for sending people to him that were not cleared and were unworthy he pushed on conducting "thorough and searching" interviews.  I asked what he meant by that.  Counselor in stake presidency said, "you should already know and understand what we mean".  No further clarification was given.  

 

This is frustrating. I love Elder Renlunds answer but do not believe all leaders follow that training. They Should not not deviate whether it’s a teenager or adult. I think many believe it is okay to ask the youth more searching questions. 

I think it is ironic that you get a more thorough interview to attend BYU than to attend the temple.

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13 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Except that can you imagine how busy the bishop would be if everyone ACTUALLY confessed every time they did the latter? 

Oy. 

Right. And most people just lie about it, which makes the ones that do confess feel extra crappy. It’s not just those that confess though, many bishops make a point of asking the youth about it. 

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9 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Right. And most people just lie about it, which makes the ones that do confess feel extra crappy. It’s not just those that confess though, many bishops make a point of asking the youth about it. 

I’ve never had a bishop ask me directly.  If he ever does, I’ll answer honestly , much to his chagrin I’m sure. 

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1 hour ago, Nacho2dope said:
3 hours ago, bsjkki said:

You also have people who feel guilt or shame for sins they have long overcome or work through on their own. The spirit can work on some but for others, it would be nice to not to “guess.” I have a sister who feels guilt and shame for things she hasn’t even done. I have some who go through PTSD visiting with the Bishop. There is a wide range of psyche out there and a wide range of positive and negative experiences with Bishops. 

I think more transparency would be a good thing. Why not at least start with this list so people know what must be reported so they know how to answer the temple recommend question? 

I have a brother who no long goes to church due to stress, guilt, and shame for things he never did. He just felt there was to much stress to be perfect that he finally just stopped going. Maybe more transparency would be a good thing.

I think it's unrealistic to think that we would never feel guilt again about sins we have overcome. Feeling a little of the guilt helps us to not want to commit the sin again.
Since we have all been given the light of Christ to know right from wrong I think for the most part we know in our hearts whether or not what we have done is wrong. 
Not sure I understand the feeling guilt for things never done. Perhaps it is because they feel guilt for wanting to do those things even if they never do them?

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12 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Right. And most people just lie about it, which makes the ones that do confess feel extra crappy. It’s not just those that confess though, many bishops make a point of asking the youth about it. 

Why?

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3 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Why?

Why lie or why ask? Lying about sexuality is second nature to most humans. As for the latter I have no idea. I was asked. I know many were not.

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7 minutes ago, JAHS said:

I think it's unrealistic to think that we would never feel guilt again about sins we have overcome. Feeling a little of the guilt helps us to not want to commit the sin again.
Since we have all been given the light of Christ to know right from wrong I think for the most part we know in our hearts whether or not what we have done is wrong. 
Not sure I understand the feeling guilt for things never done. Perhaps it is because they feel guilt for wanting to do those things even if they never do them?

Depending on how one was raised, some people feel shame (it’s different than guilt) when they do wrong.  Apologizing is not enough. 

Childhood can mess you up, and messages at church can be twisted by the brain to suggest unworthiness. 

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6 minutes ago, JAHS said:

I think it's unrealistic to think that we would never feel guilt again about sins we have overcome. Feeling a little of the guilt helps us to not want to commit the sin again.
Since we have all been given the light of Christ to know right from wrong I think for the most part we know in our hearts whether or not what we have done is wrong. 
Not sure I understand the feeling guilt for things never done. Perhaps it is because they feel guilt for wanting to do those things even if they never do them?

A lot of people struggle with forgiving themselves. A lot of people struggle with believing the atonement really works and that they are not forever less than due to their sins. This does not help people progress.

My hope is that Bishops would help people feel the love the Savior has for them and that the atonement is real. I would hope, they help people know their worth and help them have a desire to live the Gospel more fully. In my view, the Bishop is a stand in for the Savior and represents him in the repentance process. 

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Honestly, Its really hard to understand why so many people need lists.  Need to be commanded in all things. 

I something bothers you, and you feel inspired, talk to the bishop.  It doesn't have to be on some list. 

Some things I think are deliberately kept vague so people can learn to rely on the spirit.

I talked to the bishop about things that wouldn't be on any lists and have felt benefited by it, and know many others who have. 

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

A lot of people struggle with forgiving themselves.

The commandment is to forgive all people, including one's self.

It may be difficult sometimes, but worth it.

Edited by Danzo
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Just now, Danzo said:

Honestly, Its really hard to understand why so many people need lists.  Need to be commanded in all things. 

I something bothers you, and you feel inspired, talk to the bishop.  It doesn't have to be on some list. 

Some things I think are deliberately kept vague so people can learn to rely on the spirit.

I talked to the bishop about things that wouldn't be on any lists and have felt benefited by it, and know many others who have. 

I would say that this is great and I am happy you had positive experiences discussing things with your Bishop. My hope this would always be the case. It is not. 

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10 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Depending on how one was raised, some people feel shame (it’s different than guilt) when they do wrong.  Apologizing is not enough. 

Childhood can mess you up, and messages at church can be twisted by the brain to suggest unworthiness. 

I think it would help if members start with the premise that we are all not completely "worthy" or totally righteous.  Paul said, "There is none righteous, no, not one" (Rom. 3:10)
No matter what we do we will never be perfect in this life., and it is not expected of us that we are perfect, but that we just keep trying to improve ourselves and not give up.
No one is completely worthy when it comes to answering the temple recommend questions. The trick is to not be too unworthy to enter the temple, and that can be judged by one's conscience and  with the help of the Bishop.

 

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Just now, bsjkki said:

I would say that this is great and I am happy you had positive experiences discussing things with your Bishop. My hope this would always be the case. It is not. 

Unfortunately,  that is how life is. We are not always guaranteed positive experiences when we deal with people, doesn't matter if it is with spouses, bishops, stake presidents, prophets, therapists, police, etc. 

Just because all interactions are not positive doesn't mean we should stop having them. 

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Danzo said:

Unfortunately,  that is how life is. We are not always guaranteed positive experiences when we deal with people, doesn't matter if it is with spouses, bishops, stake presidents, prophets, therapists, police, etc. 

Just because all interactions are not positive doesn't mean we should stop having them. 

I agree! But I think in order to answer the temple recommend question, the information in Handbook 1 should be readily available for those searching for answers to the question. 

I answer yes or no and avoid all chit chat. 

Edited by bsjkki
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If you are unsure if you should confess start the repentance process on your own. You will be led to go confess if it is necessary. If you feel that confession is necessary from the start go with that. If you are looking for reasons to confess minor sins or continually reconfess sins because it feels good for some unhealthy reason then follow Elder Uchtdorf’s counsel: “Stop it!”

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, bsjkki said:

What sins must be reported to the Bishop? In order to answer the temple recommend question, don’t we need to know exactly what they are?

Please only answer using official church sources. Someone asked me this today and it seems very subjective. I’ve heard it taught very subjectively too. 

Is there more concrete information in Handbook 1? But then general membership doesn’t know that information so again, how do you know how to answer the Temple Recommend question?

Honestly.

The most important question is the last one. Do you feel you're worthy?

it's all between you and God anyway.

The bishop is just a guy sitting there trying to make a decision without knowing much more than you know.

Edited by mfbukowski
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16 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Honestly.

The most important question is the last one. Do you feel you're worthy?

it's all between you and God anyway.

The bishop is just a guy sitting there trying to make a decision without knowing much more than you know.

With the exception of the Bishop already knowing you are obviously lying or the guidance of the Spirit leading the Bishop (which is not always provided when someone is lying for reasons only known to God) it is between you and God. It is usually easy to lie your way into the temple. I do not think it is worth it though.

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23 hours ago, rpn said:

Serious sins.   The ones that can or must lead to disciplinary council (porn, wofw and self abuse cannot by explicit decree in Handbook 1.) 

 

Word of Wisdom infractions, though they would not lead to a disciplinary council, would affect one's worthiness to receive a temple recommend. Or is my understanding incorrect on that matter?

I would also think a pornography habit or addiction would also impact one's temple worthiness.

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11 hours ago, JAHS said:

I think it's unrealistic to think that we would never feel guilt again about sins we have overcome. Feeling a little of the guilt helps us to not want to commit the sin again.
Since we have all been given the light of Christ to know right from wrong I think for the most part we know in our hearts whether or not what we have done is wrong. 
Not sure I understand the feeling guilt for things never done. Perhaps it is because they feel guilt for wanting to do those things even if they never do them?

There was a talk about this in General Conference long ago. That sometimes the memory of the guilt persists sporadically for a time as a blessing to prevent recidivism.

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1 minute ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Word of Wisdom infractions, though they would not lead to a disciplinary council, would affect one's worthiness to receive a temple recommend. Or is my understanding incorrect on that matter?

I would also think a pornography habit or addiction would also impact one's temple worthiness.

It does but it is not a cause for a disciplinary council nor does it always require counseling with a Priesthood leader though some may find it helpful.

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2 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

It does but it is not a cause for a disciplinary council nor does it always require counseling with a Priesthood leader though some may find it helpful.

So the Law of Chastity is defined in the temple and doesn't mention porn so does porn automatically disqualify?Isn't that the definition you covenant to keep? What if you watch it with your significant other? Which definition of the Law of Chastity should people use? Again, it is somewhat subjective. My answer to this question and someone else's may be completely different. 

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31 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I would also think a pornography habit or addiction would also impact one's temple worthiness.

Do you know this for sure? "I would also think" is not a strong statement that it does always impact one's temple worthiness. 

I'm playing Devil's Advocate on this topic because these are actual questions I have been asked. When I begin researching these topics, there is an abundance of information and language is fungible. What one person thinks about things and how another person thinks can be very different. Definitions vary. I, personally, gave up romance novels and cleaned up what I read while I was in my twenties. I never for one moment thought I was breaking the law of chastity when I read the romance novels my mother left lying around my house growing up. If I had ever asked, it's possible by expanded definitions of the law of chastity, someone else would have believed I was unworthy to enter the  temple due to romance novel addiction. I thought word of wisdom violations required a Bishop...but they don't. I find it all interesting. 

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On 5/6/2019 at 9:37 PM, bsjkki said:

What sins must be reported to the Bishop? In order to answer the temple recommend question, don’t we need to know exactly what they are?

Please only answer using official church sources. Someone asked me this today and it seems very subjective. I’ve heard it taught very subjectively too. 

Is there more concrete information in Handbook 1? But then general membership doesn’t know that information so again, how do you know how to answer the Temple Recommend question?

The purpose of confession is to assist in cleansing one's soul. It is my understanding of the Gospel of Jesus Christ that the Savior is ready and is fully prepared to forgive as soon as we ask for forgiveness. However, the challenge is learning to forgive oneself. 

One of the great tools of the Evil One is to lead us to a conclusion that we are not capable of being forgiven; that our sins are so severe or ugly that God would never forgive them. This is false, but some punish themselves and refuse to come to the Lord for forgiveness. 

A bishop is there to assist us in guiding us to forgiveness. He is not capable of forgiving anyone, but his role is as a mentor; to teach that God is merciful and that we must learn to forgive ourselves. Where some carry no burden from sins, others never set their burden down. If one is having problems feeling they are forgiven, that is the time to talk to a bishop. 

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34 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

So the Law of Chastity is defined in the temple and doesn't mention porn so does porn automatically disqualify?Isn't that the definition you covenant to keep? What if you watch it with your significant other? Which definition of the Law of Chastity should people use? Again, it is somewhat subjective. My answer to this question and someone else's may be completely different. 

I am convinced porn is unhealthy even if you watch it with your spouse because it is often a precursor to infidelity, falls under "unholy and impure", and the act of creating porn involves sin.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

The purpose of confession is to assist in cleansing one's soul. It is my understanding of the Gospel of Jesus Christ that the Savior is ready and is fully prepared to forgive as soon as we ask for forgiveness. However, the challenge is learning to forgive oneself. 

One of the great tools of the Evil One is to lead us to a conclusion that we are not capable of being forgiven; that our sins are so severe or ugly that God would never forgive them. This is false, but some punish themselves and refuse to come to the Lord for forgiveness. 

A bishop is there to assist us in guiding us to forgiveness. He is not capable of forgiving anyone, but his role is as a mentor; to teach that God is merciful and that we must learn to forgive ourselves. Where some carry no burden from sins, others never set their burden down. If one is having problems feeling they are forgiven, that is the time to talk to a bishop. 

I know that is how it is supposed to work but when you lose your trust in Bishops, it's hard to think that way. 

Edited by bsjkki
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