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Interpreter Podcast: Dehlin is an "idiot" for leaking the 11/5 policy. Also, "we don't hide policies."

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, RevTestament said:

... I don't think Joseph Smith ever lost his testimony, but he did make mistakes. I believe one led to his death - destroying the printing press set up in town - that was essentially theft. The town had no power to do that. ...

This is a derail, but I think you're judging an 18th-century action by 21st-century legal norms.  

https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/City_of_Nauvoo/City_charter

https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Question:_Was_the_destruction_of_the_''Nauvoo_Expositor''_legal%3F

Edited by Kenngo1969
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1 hour ago, USU78 said:

"Who wants that?" was my way of asking all of the questions you just asked and all of the points you just made.  Without even going to issues of bias and undisclosed conflicts of interest, I made the point that the press, as we encounter it, is not a positive.  It's certainly not a Jimmy Stewart movie, with our earnest, idealistic young man butting up against corrupt entrenchment.

What assessment do you have of Tim Pool?

1 hour ago, USU78 said:

Scotty retired from being in-house press agent.  Quite a different thing from being on the religion desk at the Salt Lake Tribune.

Well then, speaking of the SLTribune, do you give a pass to Peggy Fletcher?

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2 hours ago, CV75 said:

And to do so humbly and without the spirit of contention. That is the only way the power of the Lord will stand behind it as He stands behind the Brethren.

Yes, and with the realization that we might be in big trouble if we were  in their shoes.  We would need all the help we could get, and not from sycophantic toads......🐸

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Calm said:

Hmmm....you want to know my opinion of "think tanks"?

I only judge them by the standard that they present to the world. In my opinion the 15 are well meaning true believing men, who are products of their environment and upbringing doing the best they know how. That’s not how they represent themselves as shown by their own statements. You can’t have it both ways on this. This was such an easy one to grasp for any group in touch with what’s going on in the church and world, let alone a group with a grasp that exceeds any other known group. 

Edited by SeekingUnderstanding
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6 hours ago, SouthernMo said:

Of course.  I don't expect perfection at all!

But, I don't think it's too much to ask of leaders of any organization to be honest, and if they make a mistake to admit it.  I mean, they ask me to do those things, so I think it's fair to ask all members of the church to do so at every level.

They also ask members to not talk politics at church but then the church itself joins political campaigns. Too much hypocrisy.

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3 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

What assessment do you have of Tim Pool?

Well then, speaking of the SLTribune, do you give a pass to Peggy Fletcher?

No and hell no.

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Just now, USU78 said:

No and hell no.

Don't know Tim Pool. I've heard of Deadpool, though.

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29 minutes ago, USU78 said:

Don't know Tim Pool. I've heard of Deadpool, though.

With a capital T that rhymes with P that stands for...?

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3 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Yes, and with the realization that we might be in big trouble if we were  in their shoes.  We would need all the help we could get, and not from sycophantic toads......🐸

Who has done it this way? Wouldn't anyone be in big trouble when he engages the spirit of contention? If the Brethren lack the wherewithal to know they are otherwise in big trouble, are they really in that much trouble? Who has told the Brethren he himself would be in big trouble if he didn't set them straight?

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1 hour ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

I only judge them by the standard that they present to the world. In my opinion the 15 are well meaning true believing men, who are products of their environment and upbringing doing the best they know how. That’s not how they represent themselves as shown by their own statements. You can’t have it both ways on this. This was such an easy one to grasp for any group in touch with what’s going on in the church and world, let alone a group with a grasp that exceeds any other known group. 

I'm not sure I'm seeing the problem with them acknowledging their fallibility and asserting that they have they keys of revelation (for the Church) at the same time. Or that they possess the keys for many other things that benefit us even more personally since we can all get revelation on our own.

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8 hours ago, rockpond said:

I think there is harm in saying (or giving the impression) that there is no way to be a faithful member if one is gay.

But I also think that much pain, anguish, and "attachment blockade" (see Josh Weed's blog) came from this policy's pronouncements that marrying the same-gender person you love amounts to apostasy and that children who live with their gay parents are not welcome in full-fellowship in the church.

The former may have come from church critics.  The latter came from men who claim to speak with the authority of God.

It seems to me that both the first and the second came from critics or the offended. Such statements demonstrate a misunderstanding or misrepresentation of the policy that came from the Church's top leaders in the manner and for the purpose they said it did, as with the current status (as reported so far) as well.

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10 minutes ago, CV75 said:

I'm not sure I'm seeing the problem with them acknowledging their fallibility and asserting that they have they keys of revelation (for the Church) at the same time. Or that they possess the keys for many other things that benefit us even more personally since we can all get revelation on our own.

Keys aside, Elder Holland asserted that the brethren have a better grasp of every moral and societal issue than any group on earth - yet they misjudge on something so simple as this policy? That doesn’t jibe. Sorry. 

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26 minutes ago, CV75 said:

I'm not sure I'm seeing the problem with them acknowledging their fallibility and asserting that they have they keys of revelation (for the Church) at the same time. Or that they possess the keys for many other things that benefit us even more personally since we can all get revelation on our own.

Btw, did they actually acknowledge fallibility here? Apologize? 

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26 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Keys aside, Elder Holland asserted that the brethren have a better grasp of every moral and societal issue than any group on earth - yet they misjudge on something so simple as this policy? That doesn’t jibe. Sorry. 

I think I know the quote you're referring to, but, with due respect, I have my doubts about whether it says what you have attributed to him.  Perhaps you could post the quote so we could compare it to your gloss and see how well they match up.  (By the way, consider this an Official Call for References.)  Thanks! ;)

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

I think I know the quote you're referring to, but, with due respect, I have my doubts about whether it says what you have attributed to him.  Perhaps you could post the quote so we could compare it to your gloss and see how well they match up.  (By the way, consider this an Official Call for References.)  Thanks! ;)

If you follow the chain of replies, you will find the quote. I get a 403 error when I post a link to it. 

Edit:  http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/71823-interpreter-podcast-dehlin-is-an-idiot-for-leaking-the-115-policy-also-we-dont-hide-policies/?do=findComment&comment=1209903821

 

Edited by SeekingUnderstanding

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1 hour ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Keys aside, Elder Holland asserted that the brethren have a better grasp of every moral and societal issue than any group on earth - yet they misjudge on something so simple as this policy? That doesn’t jibe. Sorry. 

Did they really misjudge?  

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4 minutes ago, Rivers said:

Did they really misjudge?  

Did they do a complete 180 on the whole policy?

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44 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

I think I know the quote you're referring to, but, with due respect, I have my doubts about whether it says what you have attributed to him.  Perhaps you could post the quote so we could compare it to your gloss and see how well they match up.  (By the way, consider this an Official Call for References.)  Thanks! ;)

 

38 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

If you follow the chain of replies, you will find the quote. I get a 403 error when I post a link to it. 

Edit:  http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/71823-interpreter-podcast-dehlin-is-an-idiot-for-leaking-the-115-policy-also-we-dont-hide-policies/?do=findComment&comment=1209903821

 

You're welcome to copy-and-paste the actual quote, along with a link to the entire address in which the quote appears.  Thanks.

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Just now, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Did they do a complete 180 on the whole policy?

Yes they did.  But did they do a 180 because they changed their minds or did they do a 180 in order to make peace?

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

 

You're welcome to copy-and-paste the actual quote, along with a link to the entire address in which the quote appears.  Thanks.

You’re welcome to read the thread before replying to something without context. That’s what I try to do, but maybe things work different for you. The link is contained in the post you replied to btw. 

Edited by SeekingUnderstanding

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4 minutes ago, Rivers said:

Yes they did.  But did they do a 180 because they changed their minds or did they do a 180 in order to make peace?

Either implies a failure to grasp the effect of the policy. 

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Just now, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Your welcome to read the thread before replying to something without context. That’s what I try to do, but maybe things work different for you. The link is contained in the post you replied to btw. 

With due respect, that doesn't wash.  You make a claim, you're obliged to back it up with evidence when asked to do so or to retract it.  Thanks in advance. :)

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6 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Well, let me add some more. There was constitutional freedom of the press in the 19th century too. Maybe that didn't apply in Nauvoo either. Now I concede the Nauvoo government is not the federal government, but I think the spirit of the first amendment was also violated. Counselor?

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

With due respect, that doesn't wash.  You make a claim, you're obliged to back it up with evidence when asked to do so or to retract it.  Thanks in advance. :)

Go back to your post that you made 9 minutes ago. It contains the link. Hint: it’s in the part where you quoted me. 

Edited by SeekingUnderstanding

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

With due respect, that doesn't wash.  You make a claim, you're obliged to back it up with evidence when asked to do so or to retract it.  Thanks in advance. :)

Since you are having difficulty , here is the post where you quoted the link:

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/71823-interpreter-podcast-dehlin-is-an-idiot-for-leaking-the-115-policy-also-we-dont-hide-policies/?do=findComment&comment=1209903891

And yes, it was an edit, but an edit that took place 30 minutes before your snippy reply. 

Edited by SeekingUnderstanding

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