Popular Post Robert F. Smith Posted May 3, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted May 3, 2019 Luke 8:17 Quote For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open. The issue is not a silly, immature discussion by a bunch of kids, and blaming Dehlin certainly won't wash. We need to accept that the Brethren are full grown men and can take their lumps. Indeed, that is their job. 12 Link to comment
SouthernMo Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 31 minutes ago, Nacho2dope said: I put no stock into anything Greg Prince says on this subject. Dehlin is an idiot for several reason, in my opinion. Why don’t you “put any stock” in what Greg Prince says on this subject? Link to comment
Nacho2dope Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 54 minutes ago, SouthernMo said: Why don’t you “put any stock” in what Greg Prince says on this subject? This is such a divisive topic within the Church and when people try and get financial gain from topics like this. It just shows what kind of a person they really are. This is my opinion and I am sure many many will disagree and they are all welcome to do so. 1 Link to comment
SeekingUnderstanding Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 8 minutes ago, Nacho2dope said: This is such a divisive topic within the Church and when people try and get financial gain from topics like this. It just shows what kind of a person they really are. This is my opinion and I am sure many many will disagree and they are all welcome to do so. What financial gain exactly has Greg Prince gotten? You do know who Greg Prince is right? Link to comment
Calm Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Nacho2dope said: This is such a divisive topic within the Church and when people try and get financial gain from topics like this. It just shows what kind of a person they really are. This is my opinion and I am sure many many will disagree and they are all welcome to do so. 9 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said: What financial gain exactly has Greg Prince gotten? You do know who Greg Prince is right? I am with Seeking here, how does Prince gain anything financially? Edited May 3, 2019 by Calm 2 Link to comment
Nacho2dope Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 11 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said: What financial gain exactly has Greg Prince gotten? You do know who Greg Prince is right? He works the night shift at the 7-11 in American Fork right? Link to comment
SouthernMo Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 24 minutes ago, Nacho2dope said: This is such a divisive topic within the Church and when people try and get financial gain from topics like this. It just shows what kind of a person they really are. This is my opinion and I am sure many many will disagree and they are all welcome to do so. That sounds very broad and vague. I’m not sure I understand. No - I’m sure I don’t understand. Link to comment
SeekingUnderstanding Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 6 minutes ago, Nacho2dope said: He works the night shift at the 7-11 in American Fork right? Is this your way of saying that your sorry and that you are wrong? Link to comment
Nacho2dope Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 19 minutes ago, Calm said: I am with Seeking here, how does Prince gain anything financially? I must have gotten him confused with another Greg Prince who wrote a book on this topic that is for sale. Please accept my apologies. Link to comment
SouthernMo Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 2 hours ago, stemelbow said: what? The policy was what it was. No one, when they first heard of it, thought the church was going to respond with a clarification that was really a rewrite, did they? Why can't people respond to what was published? Seems silly to expect people who get upset by the policy to tell them not to be upset because the Church will likely offer a clarification that changes it. Plus, let's face it the damage was done and the rewrite clarification was no helpful, so much so even the Church saw fit to drop it after she realized it was causing harm. What a mess. But it is completely backwards to blame people for being upset by the policy and saying so. That's just nonsense....sorry Calm, but it is. The media is not the enemy of the people. 1 Link to comment
SouthernMo Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 2 hours ago, USU78 said: Yup. Cui bono. Sometimes I benefit from giving service. It feels great. Maybe the term you use to indict one indicts us all? 2 Link to comment
Popular Post USU78 Posted May 3, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted May 3, 2019 My father the football coach entertained a desnews reporter during two-a-days. He was asked, "How's your team going to be this year?" His reply? "Well, it'll take a good team to beat us." The headline in next day's desnews sports section? "Coach '78 predicts region championship." And this reporter was a friend and a second cousin. You're aware of the concept of "locker room fodder," right? The press is nobody's friend. The press is not a friend of accuracy. The press is not the friend of people. The press is only interested in subscriptions and clicks and market share. The press is a moral and ethical cesspool. 5 Link to comment
USU78 Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 11 minutes ago, SouthernMo said: Sometimes I benefit from giving service. It feels great. Maybe the term you use to indict one indicts us all? How very naive. "Follow the money" doesn't always lead to the person responsible for a phenomenon. But it does help identify interests and biases. And it definitely flushes out motives. Link to comment
SeekingUnderstanding Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 14 minutes ago, USU78 said: How very naive. "Follow the money" doesn't always lead to the person responsible for a phenomenon. But it does help identify interests and biases. And it definitely flushes out motives. Do you apply this to the church too or just it’s critics? 2 Link to comment
USU78 Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 1 minute ago, SeekingUnderstanding said: Do you apply this to the church too or just it’s critics? I employ it as a kneejerk response to every phenomenon I encounter. It rarely leads me astray. Link to comment
Gray Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 3 hours ago, Calm said: What is on Dehlin and others including media looking for an attention getting story imo was they played up the worse possible interpretation on the children's policy instead of pushing let's wait for clarification on how the Church intends to apply it and let's not get upset until we know what to get upset with. The worst possible interpretation of the policy was a plain reading of the policy. The clarification issued later actually changed key aspects of the policy, softening it slightly. 1 Link to comment
Gray Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 3 hours ago, Calm said: I thought from the beginning it would be parallel to the polygamous family policy, which meant to me it was about living under the parent's roof. The vast majority of people I talked to offline saw it that way as well. Speculation online included the policy would apply to any kids who had a gay parent, not just those living with gay parents. That was based on a plain reading of the policy as written in the handbook. Link to comment
Calm Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Nacho2dope said: He works the night shift at the 7-11 in American Fork right? Quote Prince was born and raised in Los Angeles, California. After graduating as valedictorian from Dixie College (St. George, Utah), he served a two-year mission in Brazil for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) at age 19.[2] Upon returning to the United States in 1969, Prince attended graduate school at the University of California, Los Angeles, receiving a D.D.S. (valedictorian) in 1973 and a Ph.D in pathology in 1975. In 1975 he and his wife, JaLynn Rasmussen, moved to Washington D.C., for a post-doctoral fellowship at the National Institutes of Health. After spending more than a decade at NIH and Johns Hopkins University, he co-founded Virion Systems, Inc. (VSI), a biotechnology company focused on the prevention and treatment of pediatric infectious diseases. Building on discoveries that Prince made as a doctoral student, VSI pioneered the prevention of respiratory syncytial virus (RSV) disease in high-risk infants through the use of monoclonal antibody. (RSV is the primary cause of infant pneumonia throughout the world.) VSI's technologies were licensed to MedImmune, Inc., and the collaborative efforts of the two companies and other partners resulted in the approval by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration of Synagis, a drug that is currently given to approximately a quarter-million high-risk infants throughout the world each year. Prince currently serves as president and CEO of VSI. In 2008, Prince and his wife established the Madison House Autism Foundation, named after their youngest son who is autistic, for the purpose of addressing the perplexing issues facing adults with autism, along with those facing family members, caregivers and society at large. Prince serves on the boards of several non-profit institutions including the National Advisory Council, Dixie State University; the National Advisory Board, J. W. Marriott Library, University of Utah; the National Presidential Advisory Board, Utah Valley University; the Dean's Advisory Council, University of Utah School of Dentistry; and the Board of Governors, Wesley Theological Seminary. If this guy can play a musical instrument, I would call him a Renaissance man. He doesn't need the money he picks up from his books on his hobby (label not to trivialize the quality of his work, but to emphasize it isn't a second income to pay for all those things he couldn't buy with his first) He might even have 'spent' (in terms of time) more money on them given their size and depth than he made off of them, since they are not a mass market product. He gains a reputation through his work, but he deserves that, imo. Edited May 3, 2019 by Calm 3 Link to comment
SouthernMo Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 1 hour ago, USU78 said: How very naive. "Follow the money" doesn't always lead to the person responsible for a phenomenon. But it does help identify interests and biases. And it definitely flushes out motives. You know that Cui Bono does not mean follow the money, right? Link to comment
USU78 Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, SouthernMo said: You know that Cui Bono does not mean follow the money, right? Oi weh. Link to comment
Nacho2dope Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 30 minutes ago, Calm said: If this guy can play a musical instrument, I would call him a Renaissance man. He doesn't need the money he picks up from his books on his hobby (label not to trivialize the quality of his work, but to emphasize it isn't a second income to pay for all those things he couldn't buy with his first) He might even have 'spent' (in terms of time) more money on them given their size and depth than he made off of them, since they are not a mass market product. He gains a reputation through his work, but he deserves that, imo. Well once again I have been proven wrong, highly educated and well accomplished individuals can’t push an agenda. Link to comment
blueglass Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, SouthernMo said: Why don’t you “put any stock” in what Greg Prince says on this subject? In this interview with Dehlin, Tom Christofferson speaks about his conversation with his brother after the policy was released to the public. Edited May 3, 2019 by blueglass 4 Link to comment
Calm Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Nacho2dope said: highly educated and well accomplished individuals can’t push an agenda. Straw man... Just to be clear, I don't accept his at best secondhand claims (and if they passed through more people as they did in the case of Tom Christofferson, third, fourth, whatever) as strong evidence. Too easy for bias to let us hear what we want to hear. I just think claiming financial gain as a motivator for his agenda to be silly. Dehlin, otoh...that is a definite possibility in my view. (And just so nonmembers don't feel picked on, there are imo plenty of members unfortunately who use the Church to try and make a buck, like the doomsday preppers promoters). Edited May 3, 2019 by Calm 2 Link to comment
Jean-Luc Picard Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Nacho2dope said: Well once again I have been proven wrong, highly educated and well accomplished individuals can’t push an agenda. No just following his nose, or the history as it is laid out in regards to the Church on gay issues. Greg is very, very familiar with the history of the Church and it's relationship with it's gay members. The thing that hurt was, I feel like our Church is different and has consistently show a much kinder and compassionate view of it's gay members than many other conservative/more fundamentalist churches. I do believe that President Monsoon/Nelson are compassionate people. Much more so than other evangelical/conservative leaders when it comes to gay issues I think they have a better understanding of the struggles of gay people, and have a more Christlike approach in their ministry of their gay flock. The policy unfortunately, painted the Church in the same light as churches that have a less than Christlike approach to their gay congregates. The Church is now dug in deeper with these groups. Dehlin made the leak very public, but I don't fault him for that. This just shows that our leaders had more learning to do when it comes to managing their flock in a compassionate way. The policy is just a continuation of the prop 8, scared of the progressive movement in this country. I think the reversal of the policy was an acknowledgement that it was hurting people (I really do think the leaders care deeply) and the Church's reputation. But is also think it is an acknowledgement that the 2016 election and subsequent appointment of judges will not threaten the religious liberty of the Church in a way that it might if it had gone another way. There was no longer a doctrinal/revelatory/legal basis needed for the Church's handbook policy. The discrimination lawsuits didn't come a knocking like they thought they could. Edited May 3, 2019 by Jean-Luc Picard Link to comment
Wade Englund Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 Since this is a gay-related thread, I can't resist participating. So, let me just say, "I need more gay cowbell..." Thanks, -Wade Link to comment
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