Popular Post Hamba Tuhan Posted May 10, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted May 10, 2019 2 hours ago, changed said: ... don't follow apostles, just follow Jesus. Does that include following what Jesus has said about following apostles? 6 Link to comment
Storm Rider Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said: Does that include following what Jesus has said about following apostles? That is what causes problems for many that try to overcome and/or abandon the role of the Church organization that Jesus instituted. The relationship with Jesus Christ is personal, but he has called his prophets and apostles to guide his flock. The mere fact that these leaders are human seems to enable some to assume leaders can be ignored....after all, they are just men. God has called them; if they do wrong, who pays the eternal price? His servants that he has called. Who is blessed for obedience? His flock. Some would rather abandon what they know to be true in exchange for putting their faith in the their own strength. That is and will always be building one's house on sand. Edited May 10, 2019 by Storm Rider 1 Link to comment
Calm Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 18 hours ago, changed said: just follow Jesus. Jesus never wrote anything himself, so how are we to just follow him? We wouldn’t even know what to call him or that he died for us without the apostles and others. 4 Link to comment
changed Posted May 15, 2019 Author Share Posted May 15, 2019 (edited) On 5/10/2019 at 3:17 PM, Calm said: Jesus never wrote anything himself, so how are we to just follow him? We wouldn’t even know what to call him or that he died for us without the apostles and others. We follow Jesus by following our own conscience- which is the light of Christ given to all. Most of the people who have lived on Earth have not had access to apostles, prophets, scriptures- by design. Apparently God believes most people are better off without all of that - God did give all of us a conscience- that is the important part. Edited May 15, 2019 by changed 1 Link to comment
Calm Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 Just now, changed said: We follow Jesus by following our own conscience- which is the light of Christ given to all. How do you know what the light of Christ is? Who taught you? 1 Link to comment
changed Posted May 15, 2019 Author Share Posted May 15, 2019 On 5/10/2019 at 12:32 AM, Storm Rider said: Some would rather abandon what they know to be true in exchange for putting their faith in the their own strength. That is and will always be building one's house on sand. Putting trust in someone else's arms of flesh, then blaming them for any trouble we get into after following their imperfect advice...vs... taking personal responsibility for ourselves. PS the blame falls on your own shoulders if you decide to follow a monster.. Link to comment
changed Posted May 15, 2019 Author Share Posted May 15, 2019 5 minutes ago, Calm said: How do you know what the light of Christ is? Who taught you? My own conscience Knowing others too, comparing morals, seeing there is a guide for all of us - no matter what it is called... Illustrations of the Tao - Lewis... Link to comment
Storm Rider Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 10 hours ago, changed said: Putting trust in someone else's arms of flesh, then blaming them for any trouble we get into after following their imperfect advice...vs... taking personal responsibility for ourselves. PS the blame falls on your own shoulders if you decide to follow a monster.. I understand your position and I reject it. It is born of fear, fear of making an error in following another regardless of how it is dressed in words of responsibility. It is also faithless - God is prevented from calling anyone to lead another. Further, it is complete chaos because it creates a world of blind individuals adamantly ignoring all things but their own desires, which each is convinced is the truth. This is easily seen in the Protestant world of Christianity. Our personal responsibility is never completely abdicated. This is easily observed in Nephi's questioning of the command to slay Laban. Did he question the angel? Yes, yet he remained faithful and walked in faith. When our faith is in God and we seek his kingdom - it is our faith in God that we follow, not our faith in a given prophet or any other leader. You make a caricature of the faithful, which has nothing to do with true discipleship. Link to comment
hope_for_things Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 On 4/29/2019 at 9:24 PM, changed said: In a discussion on the priesthood ban someone said: "if we hold to what we truly believe to be true, and have faith that God will straighten things out if we are faithful, then...He will straighten things out. " ... if we hold to what we truly believe... I do not think it is good to hold onto beliefs. We are all misinformed, when we get new information we should let go of old beliefs, and follow where the new information leads, correct? Example: Let's say your church taught the earth was flat, or that the earth was the center of the universe, and you believed your church leaders and thought holding onto that belief was somehow showing faith in God. Then - new information comes along, people are saying the earth is not flat afterall.... so.... do you a) ignore what everyone is saying, and "hold onto your beliefs" b) study it out using only church approved material, and rationalize how the church beliefs in a flat earth are correct c) study it out using materials from multiple organizations, test it out yourself, and come to your own conclusion - then re-evaluate your beliefs. (Keep some beliefs, get rid of others) So... what beliefs have you discarded? what beliefs would you have a hard time getting rid of? What pieces of your faith do you hold onto, and what pieces are you willing to let go of? This is a really good post and I missed it as I haven't been participating as actively. But I just wanted to say that I really like this. In recent years I have been examining and re-evaluating all my core beliefs, religious, political, social, cultural. I've been on a mission to seek information, to learn as much as I can, and to not prejudice ideas based on my prior thinking. This is hard, and at times has made me very uncertain about what I thought in the past. However, as I've leaned into this dilemma I've been finding a lot more comfort in the uncertainty. In some ways I think I'm emerging into a new kind of orientation with respect to how I understand things. Recently I've even been finding a renewed beauty in some of the concepts that I learned earlier in life through religion. For example, humility to me today means having this kind of orientation where I am very open to new information and to shifting my understanding according to the strength of the data. Earlier in life I would have said that I thought I was humble, but upon reflection I think that humility was extremely limited. I was humble in that I was willing to consider ideas coming from only certain authority figures and sources. Now I listen to a much broader spectrum. This approach has changed me in many ways for the better, and I'm grateful for this journey. 1 Link to comment
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