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lostindc

The Church is potentially spending 129 million to purchase a London office building.  

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10 minutes ago, Wade Englund said:

Actually, you brought it into the conversation by ignoring in your response the spiritual aspect mentioned in my post.

Perhaps you failed to notice the very important qualifier "ultimately" in my post. That qualifier makes my comment quite reasonable--at least for those with eyes to see.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

“With eyes to see” This is often a term used Mormons use to make themselves feel superior to others.  Do you feel superior to me?  Are you smarter, wiser, more spiritual?

Im guessing you cannot in specifics define how everything is “ultimately” humanitarian aid.  Unless, we accept that all economics are helpful to humans.  Is that your position?  Any money spent will help people and thus can fall into humanitarian efforts?

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10 minutes ago, Wade Englund said:

As if you would know...or I would care. ;)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I believe we are in agreement.

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9 minutes ago, sunstoned said:

"People", not "Church".

I would agree the Church has wealth and there are wealthy people in the Church.  But for the vast majority of our people I would not describe as "wealthy" in comparison to their community, though my understanding is we tend to rank higher in education and thus often may be in general on the better off side of the income curve in more established or developed areas. More kids and less two family incomes may have a negative impact though.

Edited by Calm
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How much does the Church spend in humanitarian aid each year?
This will give you a summary. They don't just donate money but also a lot of supplies that cost money to produce.

2018 LDS Charities ANNUAL REPORT

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https://www.timesandseasons.org/harchive/2012/04/city-creek-and-the-choices-of-thrift/

Good blog, relevant points.  From back when everyone was griping about the City Creek purchase.

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Jana invokes the prophet Amos in her article. She is trying to get the kind of simple moral clarity that he demonstrated. This, I think, is admirable, and I think that she is absolutely correct in invoking Amos in thinking about our moral obligations to the poor. On the other hand, Amos – and other ancient prophets – are not, in themselves, very good templates for thinking about modern investment decisions. This is because the underlying economic infrastructure in the ancient worlds that they discuss was strikingly different than those that exist in the modern world. The kind of complex investment decisions that the Church faces simply did not exist in Amos’s world. In particular, the institutions that mediate between saving and investment in a modern economy were created at the end of the seventeenth century. This means that saving and spending have different social effects in the ancient world than do in the modern world. This doesn’t mean that the concerns expressed by Amos aren’t just as relevant today as they were when he expressed them. It does mean, however, that understanding the meaning and application of those norms requires a more nuanced understanding of investment than can be provided by reading the scriptures.

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, SouthernMo said:

guessing you cannot in specifics define how everything is “ultimately” humanitarian aid

If the Church is what it claims, then achieving its central missions of perfecting the Saints, proclaiming the Gospel, redeeming the dead, and caring for the poor and needy is all humanitarian aid in the sense it acts as God directs to bring to mankind joy and eternal life.

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The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized by God to assist in His work to bring to pass the salvation and exaltation of His children'

https://www.mormonwiki.com/Four-fold_Mission_of_the_Church

  Being financially well off promotes stability and influence, which can be argued as contributing to more likely fulfillment of its calling.

Now if the financial gain and stability became an end in itself, that would not be able to be argued as ultimately humanitarian aid, imo.  We or rather those called to this on local and general levels need to guard against those in charge of financial income not be focused on the ultimate mission.  Encouraging tithing, fast offerings, and other ways of self sacrifice in members generally can help keep the focus where it should be, imo, by teaching the principle.

PS:  I get many don't define spiritual aid as in the category of helping people who need help, but if emotional aid qualifies (and imo providing free therapy for abused victims or marriage counseling or coping skills or fulfillment of wishes for terminal patients are all humanitarian aid), then I see no reason why providing spiritual aid would not also qualify as humanitarian aid.

PPS:  I agree with the idea that all the Church does may be seen as humanitarian aid (assuming those responsible keep that focus...which I know is seen as a big assumption by some), I am not agreeing with any commentary or inferences that criticism equates to spiritual blindness or misplaced priorities, etc.

Edited by Calm
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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, JAHS said:

How much does the Church spend in humanitarian aid each year?
This will give you a summary. They don't just donate money but also a lot of supplies that cost money to produce.

2018 LDS Charities ANNUAL REPORT

This appears to only cover part of what the Church does.  I don't see the educational projects listed, for example.  Wouldn't cover fast offerings either, I believe.

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26 minutes ago, Duncan said:

The Church drops at least 3 Grand every two weeks in my stake for food at the Bishop\s Storehouse, and that's not including people who need help right now

besides of which check this out

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/chad-eliminates-maternal-neonatal-tetanus

Wonderful...who pays for that ?

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2 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Wonderful...who pays for that ?

The Church i'd imagine, they offer the Bishop's storehouse so they have to pony up the cash to pay for it. It is a as needs basis, so if 7 people in the Stake need a food order that week then they get it or 155 people need one they get it as well

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1 minute ago, Duncan said:

The Church i'd imagine, they offer the Bishop's storehouse so they have pony up the cash to pay for it

They do, to a degree, but it's done completely through fast offerings.  No tithing.

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Btw, we as consumers have an incredible untapped power to generate billions of dollars for charitable endeavors.

We just need to choose to utilize that power.  American companies spend hundreds of billions of dollars a year to influence our buying decisions.  Almost all of that spend goes to some form of advertising.

If we as consumers told those companies that our buying decisions could be influenced by their level of philanthropy, then walked the talk by buying from the more charitable company, and then made it clear why we did so, companies would waste no time moving a significant portion of their “consumer influencing spend” from advertising to charitable endeavors.  I’ve sat in corporate board rooms and witnessed shifts of significant portions of total ad spend to follow what consumers say influences their buying decisions.  We could move those dollars into philanthropy.

We just need to get organized as consumers and send that message in a unified fashion to corporate America.  

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2 hours ago, lostindc said:

The Church is potentially spending 129 million to purchase a London office building.  How much does the Church spend in humanitarian aid each year?  

$128,999,99.99?

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1 hour ago, JAHS said:

The Church's approach to aid as described in this report is very different to what many people expect. In addition to emergency relief, so much of what the Church does is to help people be OK without assistance. I love the story of how the Church and its partner in Kenya are teaching farming families how to double or triple their crop yields, for example. The Church is a wise steward that facilitates others' becoming wise stewards as well. This increases everyone's ability to engage in emergency relief, both globally and locally. I feel grateful to be a part of such an organisation.

40 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

In my last ward we went through about 33k per month at the Bishops Storehouse.

One of my mates (and our former bishop here) took a job in California a few years ago. He's currently serving as the bishop of an 'inner city' ward where, according to his report, fully 75 per cent of ward members are receiving assistance from the Church.

Edited by Hamba Tuhan
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2 hours ago, filovirus said:

Spending money on one thing does not preclude the ability to spend money on another thing. A perceived disparity is just that: perceived. We have no idea how much the church spends on humanitarian aid each year. Between the Bishop's storehouse, paying for members bills as needed, responding to disaster relief, and donations to charitable organizations, I'm guessing it is quite a bit.

They are paying with members' tithing for relief for disasters and donations to charitable organizations, leaders have said it's the member's money, remember? Also, if the church would just let the members still have a recommend and pay their own bills, then they wouldn't have to come to the church to pay. I've heard it said that the bishop will tell the member to pay despite their needing it to pay their bills, and then if they have to come to the church for help they can.

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3 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

Don't know but its a one time purchase.  Its not like the church does this every year.

 

Are you sure?

April 2019 - Church breaks ground on 95 State at City Creek (over 500,000 SF of class A office space)

August 2018 - Church buys 40 story high-rise in Chicago's South Loop

August 2017 - Church buys  Cityline office campus in Richardson, TX (valued at $1.5b)

September 2016 - Church completes construction on 111 Main (24 stories of office space)

July 2016 - Church buys newly completed 386 unit apartment complex in Las Colinas neighborhood of Irving, TX

2015 - Church builds 258 unit residential tower next to Philadelphia Temple

 

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5 hours ago, lostindc said:

The Church is potentially spending 129 million to purchase a London office building.  How much does the Church spend in humanitarian aid each year?  

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-29/mormon-church-said-in-talks-on-129-million-london-office-deal?srnd=markets-vp

What is the expected return on this investment and where will the return be allocated?

 

4 hours ago, lostindc said:

I think we're good in that area.  Someone ventured to say that this latest investment is 3 times as much as we spend in humanitarian aid each year.  

What is the return? 

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3 hours ago, Duncan said:

The Church drops at least 3 Grand every two weeks in my stake for food at the Bishop\s Storehouse, and that's not including people who need help right now

besides of which check this out

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/chad-eliminates-maternal-neonatal-tetanus

Correction, the church facilitates the membership donations to those in need.  

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4 hours ago, poptart said:

You know, I sat down one day and asked myself something along the same lines.  Here's my opinion, take it for what it's worth.  The Church is keeping it's future in mind.  The LDS church and their flock are the only people in US history who had extermination orders taken out on them, think about that.  During the 50's when many of the members were still into rural farming/lifestyle (Someone please correct me if i'm wrong here, just going of what I know/think I know), the rest of US Christendom, esp. Protestants were exploding as a powerbase.  It was so successful almost everyone, even Catholics started to mirror their powerbuilding and congregational growth strategies.  While they assoiciated religion with the American way and anyone who disagreed was a commie, the church kept quiet and steadily grew.  Now, the LDS church is a legit power of the land, they may well rival the Catholic Church in holdings.  People go on about how the church is greedy in demanding 10% tithe wise, what most people here don't realize is most other countries get similar donations, Germany takes about 10% by law, you don't even have a choice in the matter.

https://wwkn.de/en/about-german-taxes/church-tax-kirchensteuer/

This is also why the church in Germany can and often does so much more than they can here, they run a lot of the schools in the country side, rehab facilities and what not.  Bottom line, lots of people here want something for nothing, yet when life happens the come running to a church for help.  So many of them are strapped hence why many churches do end up closing their doors.  The LDS church has seen lots of people leave, they take their money with them.  At least LDS leadership was wise enough to see this coming and acted accordingly.  They never had the edge that mainline protestants here, they were never one of the "Approved" branches of the Christian religion, they were the outliers who knew what it was like to be hunted and hated, all that aside they probably saw the writing on the wall when divorce really started going up.  Look at the proclamation they made years ago, so many people have no idea what an amazing thing this was.  Now more than ever, a good family will more or less help you not end up homeless.  Even if you have a good job, all it takes is one dibilitating illness to wipe you out financially.

https://www.lds.org/topics/family-proclamation?lang=eng&old=true

The LDS Churches is one of the few organizations I know of here stateside that will help their members no matter what, who else do you know of who does the same?  Deseret industries ability to mobilize and help people is amazing, they put sams club to shame in how organized they are.  Think it was one of the prophets who said, if the church can't help their members survive than they have little ground to stand on.  Not sure who it was, maybe someone here can clear that up for me. That being said, it's my opinion that it's peoples entitlement that is destroying so many of our institutions that were at one time pillars of the community, the church is one of them.  I can talk to my grandaunt and hear how the church would do so much more for the poor back in the day, there were people in her church who adopted 6 orphans and made sure they had a good childhood and shot at life, I somehow doubt your average protestant/evangelical/anglo catholic church would be as giving.  Only people I've ever known here who adopted someone elses kids, even those of a different race were LDS.  Really makes you think....

👎

(no other option for a ¨dislike¨)

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8 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Are you sure?

Sounds like it may even been an annual plan. I like it.

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2 minutes ago, Maidservant said:

What is the expected return on this investment and where will the return be allocated?

 

What is the return? 

I am guessing more money for investments and then maybe at some point decided a day is rainy enough to spend more on humanitarian aid.  

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