The Cross

[Joshua Valentine]

This is from 2009, but is very interesting. To understand the present you must understand the past.

¨Mormons and the Cross¨ by Michael De Groote of Deseret News

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/705328913/Mormons-and-the-cross.html

 

This is a later, more detailed account of Reed´s historical information via a review of his 2012 book by Boyd Jay Petersen in Dialogue:

https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V46N02_3135d.pdf

Edited April 18, 2019 by Joshua Valentine
added another source and link

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

I’ve never come across that specifically but yes. 

It happens regularly here in discussions on LDS and the cross. 

Edited April 18, 2019 by Bernard Gui

[Robert F. Smith]

Here is Amelia Folsom Young, wife of Brigham:

On July 24, 1917, a "This Is the Place" monument in the shape of a cross was erected at the mouth of Emigration Canyon.

 

[MustardSeed]

40 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

It happens regularly here in discussions on LDS and the cross. 

I think the argument style on this site forces strong opinions when in real life, if you personally don’t wear a cross, nobody cares.  I think if I were to wear a cross, some eyebrows will raise.  I just think that’s too bad.  

[MustardSeed]

Just now, TheRedHen said:

I have always taken my kids to other denominations at Easter and Christmas for the simple reason that our Church seems to treat those days like any other.  There's something special about the way Catholics worship during the Easter week.  We simply change the hymns for the day to be from pages 33-42 and assign someone to give a talk about the resurrection.   To me it's a real missed opportunity to worship the fact that Christ rose from the dead.  Wherever we've lived I've sought out a cathedral, whether in the US, Australia or Germany.

I absolutely love the tradition of Lent.  

And for that matter, I wish we had a traditional Christmas Eve musical tradition. 

[bsjkki]

13 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

I think the argument style on this site forces strong opinions when in real life, if you personally don’t wear a cross, nobody cares.  I think if I were to wear a cross, some eyebrows will raise.  I just think that’s too bad.  

This came up in a "meeting" tonight. Yep...people would notice and think you didn't understand CoJCoLDS doctrines. 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

It happens regularly here in discussions on LDS and the cross. 

Complaints that we don't generally wear crosses ourselves or complaints that we generally discourage fellow Saints who want to wear them from wearing them, such as converts who view them as meaningful?

Or complaints we don't have them on our buildings?

[Bernard Gui]

9 minutes ago, Calm said:

Complaints that we don't generally wear crosses ourselves or complaints that we generally discourage fellow Saints who want to wear them from wearing them, such as converts who view them as meaningful?

Or complaints we don't have them on our buildings?

Yes.

[sunstoned]

1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

I think the argument style on this site forces strong opinions when in real life, if you personally don’t wear a cross, nobody cares.  I think if I were to wear a cross, some eyebrows will raise.  I just think that’s too bad.  

I had a small silver cross that was attached to the zipper on my Bible cover.  I carried it through my mission, then to church every Sunday for 30 years.  Occasionally a member would comment on it.  But as you mentioned, mostly no one really cared.  I agree.  If you want to wear a cross, then by all means, do so.

Edited April 18, 2019 by sunstoned

[Bernard Gui]

This article sums up the criticism of the lack of crosses in the LDS Church...

Quote

 So the bottom line with the LDS Church is that the cross means absolutely nothing because they believe Jesus paid for our sins in the Garden of Gethsemane; they believe that it was a “necessary evil” that Adam fell so we could earn the honors of victory in the conflict of sin and we owe our gratitude to our father Adam for his great disobedience towards God. 

I pray that God would have mercy upon this people and lead as many as would listen to His truth so they may be saved.  Acts 3:19 says; “Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.”

If you’re a Mormon please know that we’re not here to bash you or insult you!  We care deeply about your salvation and want you to know how much Jesus really does love you.  The Jesus of the Bible is the true Son of God, not the one that Joseph Smith made up in 1830.  If you’d like more information about this topic or anything else in Mormonism don’t hesitate to drop us a line! http://lifeafter.org/the-missing-cross-in-mormonism/

 

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

I think the argument style on this site forces strong opinions when in real life, if you personally don’t wear a cross, nobody cares.  I think if I were to wear a cross, some eyebrows will raise.  I just think that’s too bad.  

In the OP you cited an example from real life where someone cared that you wore a cross. Whether we do or don't (wear or care) the most important thing for us is the Atonement. 

Edited April 18, 2019 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

I absolutely love the tradition of Lent.  

And for that matter, I wish we had a traditional Christmas Eve musical tradition. 

I attend midnight Christmas Eve mass at the local Polish Catholic Church in memory of my Polish grandfather.

In our family, we make our own traditions.  As a family, the children re-enact the birth of Christ as recorded in the Gospels. We sing British, American, and Polish carols and have a family orchestra, eat traditional New Mexican and Polish Christmas food, light luminarias, share a gift, and sometimes have Santa come. We have carried on these traditions for almost 50 years.

Edited April 18, 2019 by Bernard Gui

[MustardSeed]

22 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

In the OP you cited an example from real life where someone cared that you wore a cross. Whether we do or don't (wear or care) the most important thing for us is the Atonement. 

We agree that the atonement matters most.  

I just think it’s ok to also think about other stuff at the same time.  Maybe I’m not communicating well.  

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

We agree that the atonement matters most.  

I just think it’s ok to also think about other stuff at the same time.  Maybe I’m not communicating well.  

Not a problem. I understand and I have agreed that whoever wants to can wear or use across without fear or shame. I have also shared my thoughts about what I think is most important.

Moreover, the cross is the foundational element of our most sacred and holy temple ordinances.

The cross is the heart of our sacrament service and our temple.

Edited April 18, 2019 by Bernard Gui

[Calm]

7 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Yes.

The existences of the complaints....The first, I don't remember seeing on the board; the second is a valid complaint (we do have members who think it is necessary for converts to dispense with crosses), but I don't remember anyone claiming we have an inferior relationship because of that, imo; the last...inconsequential, imo, I remember some rare occasions someone comes on the board and claims we aren't Christian because we have no crosses on our building.  They tended to make others treme claims as well.  But "regularly"...those days of frequent appears are gone as far as I can see.

So where do they regularly on this board (which means someone needs to have posted articles or made comments  in support of such claims, not just to debate them or demonstrate they exist) present us as having "inferior relationship" for any of these things we do or don't do.

Edited April 18, 2019 by Calm

[Joshua Valentine]

¨The cross is used in many Christian churches as a symbol of the Savior’s death and Resurrection and as a sincere expression of faith. As members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we also remember with reverence the suffering of the Savior. But because the Savior lives, we do not use the symbol of His death as the symbol of our faith.

Our lives must be the expression of our faith. When we are baptized and confirmed, we covenant to take upon ourselves the name of Jesus Christ. The way we live our lives should demonstrate our love for the Savior and His work.

The only members of the Church who wear the symbol of the cross are Latter-day Saint chaplains, who wear it on their military uniforms to show that they are Christian chaplains.¨

-https://www.lds.org/topics/cross?lang=eng

[Metis_LDS]

I am not trying to be difficult and really do not know the answer.  If you search the new testament on the word tree there are (about) four entries that say Jesus was hung on a tree.  Anybody have any ideas on this?

[USU78]

14 minutes ago, Metis_LDS said:

I am not trying to be difficult and really do not know the answer.  If you search the new testament on the word tree there are (about) four entries that say Jesus was hung on a tree.  Anybody have any ideas on this?

Translation from the Hebrew etz maybe?

[Metis_LDS]

10 minutes ago, USU78 said:

Translation from the Hebrew etz maybe?

Perhaps,  It seems to be Peter who says it.

[Maidservant]

51 minutes ago, Metis_LDS said:

I am not trying to be difficult and really do not know the answer.  If you search the new testament on the word tree there are (about) four entries that say Jesus was hung on a tree.  Anybody have any ideas on this?

Perhaps Peter was trying to be symbolic since it refers to the curse of hanging from a tree that is in the Old Testament (and even the Book of Mormon); as well as tones suggesting the trees in the Garden.

[Amulek]

20 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

Do other people see the cross as an evil symbol like I did as a child, or as a real problem?

Nope. While I've never felt a strong affinity to the cross as a symbol personally, I have no problem with others who feel differently. 

I would say that anyone who authentically feels like wearing a cross as a symbol / remembrance / etc. then more power to you. 

It's only the cross-as-merchandise / outward appearance crowd that I can't stand. But, to be fair, I can't stand those kinds of people regardless of what symbol they happen to be sporting - /cough gaudy, custom CTR rings /cough. 

 

Edited April 18, 2019 by Amulek

[MiserereNobis]

11 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

eat traditional New Mexican ... Christmas food

Tamales!  

Edited April 18, 2019 by MiserereNobis

[MiserereNobis]

2 hours ago, Joshua Valentine said:

But because the Savior lives, we do not use the symbol of His death as the symbol of our faith.

This is interesting, because it implies that the symbol of the LDS faith would be something about a living Christ. However, the most obvious symbol of the LDS faith (as far as I can tell) is Moroni. Or maybe a CTR ring. Neither are symbols of a living Christ.

[bluebell]

Just now, MiserereNobis said:

This is interesting, because it implies that the symbol of the LDS faith would be something about a living Christ. However, the most obvious symbol of the LDS faith (as far as I can tell) is Moroni. Or maybe a CTR ring. Neither are symbols of a living Christ.

It probably depends on how you look at it.  While I wouldn't say those things are the symbols of our faith (no one in my family has a CTR ring or any symbols of the Angel Moroni as decoration and we're not unique), they actually do make sense as symbols of the living Christ from a certain perspective.  

Moroni is a symbol, placed on top of our temples, that denotes the blessings of eternity and specifically the second coming of Christ.  "Choose the Right" is a symbol of following the resurrected Christ above all else.

 

[Maureen]

20 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

...I think that would be pretty great in multiple ways - that said, I have always felt sort of icky about the cross, mainly because someone gave me a chain with a cross on it when I was a child and my mother reacted as if someone had given me a dirty magazine.  It was confiscated and not discussed...

@MustardSeed, as a Protestant, the cross for me represents the atonement; salvation, grace and love that comes from Christ's sacrifice.

If you're interested in how this aversion to the cross began in LDS history, I recommend the book by Michael G. Reed called Banishing the Cross, The Emergence of a Mormon Taboo.

M.

Edited April 18, 2019 by Maureen