The Cross

[MustardSeed]

There is a professor of Ancient Near East studies at BYU who talks about the cross as a symbol of Christ's atonement.

It's easter!  We celebrate with religions around the world this holy day.  There are similarities and there are contrasting elements in our worship.  One being that we do not use the traditional cross.  I'm sure this has been discussed here before but it's easter and I just listened to a program about this topic.

The professor believes we 'should' implement the cross more in our religion.  

I think that would be pretty great in multiple ways - that said, I have always felt sort of icky about the cross, mainly because someone gave me a chain with a cross on it when I was a child and my mother reacted as if someone had given me a dirty magazine.  It was confiscated and not discussed.  

I think the cross is beautiful, and very meaningful.  I think that Christ's sacrifice of death is so relatable.  I try to understand the atonement, and it is important to strive to understand it, but it is really abstract.  His death is a concrete concept and I can certainly appreciate the fact that someone loved us so much that he was willing to be in mortal pain and anguish and to be killed.  We down play that (I think) and we focus on the garden.   I'd be all about wearing a cross as a declaration of my devotion and gratitude for His sacrifice.  I wear the Garment but nobody sees that.  Well, as long as I'm not wearing my cheeky shorts.  

This is all just my thoughts and rambling.  Do other people see the cross as an evil symbol like I did as a child, or as a real problem?  And would it actually hurt us if we celebrated the cross?  Would it bring new understanding of us to other people?  Would it really take away from the focus on the atonement, or are we capable of multitasking?  

Note that I know this site has no power.  It's not like the option is on the table or like me commenting on it is going to mean a thing.  I'm just thinking out loud.

[randy]

Hey there!    Hope today finds you having a GREAT day!    I have thought about this topic many times.  I do not have anything "against" the cross per se'.  But..I think if you ask most Christans what they think of  when they say the word "cross" most would respond to "Jesus Christ died for us".  Is that a bad thing?  Of course not...he certainly did!   But....as we approach this coming Easter Sunday...my personal focus is on the living the Christ.  His resurrection....his overcoming death.  So, in that respect...I feel the symbolism of the Cross diverts our focus away from the fact that Christ lives.  I want to focus on, and celebrate the living Christ....not his death.  But, if someone were to give me a gift of a Cross...I would certainly keep it and cherish it.   Just my thoughts.....

[MustardSeed]

Yes today is a better day  

nothing is different, just deciding to do my best and stuff the rest. 

Thank you😇

Edited April 17, 2019 by MustardSeed

[randy]

put another way....If I were given two gifts...one a picture of Christ on the Cross,  or a picture of the Garden Tomb...and I could only choose one to display....I personally would choose the picture of the Garden Tomb.   

[randy]

There ya go!!!

[randy]

Well,  I hope you have a wonderful Easter this coming Sunday!  Take care!

[bluebell]

I don't think the Cross is evil at all!  When I was on my mission one of the people that I taught who was baptized gave me his crucifix and I cherish it.  But, I struggle to have any personal connection to the cross as a positive religious symbol of Christ because:

1) Seeing a cross does not make me think of Jesus.  It makes me think of Christian things (like a church, or a book, or a theology) but in my mind there is no connection between Christ as my personal Savior and the symbol of a cross (I hope i've explained that right).  I think i subconsciously see it almost as a marketing tool, like a shorthand way to convey "We're Christian!" more than a symbol of the Atonement.

2) Scary movies have ruined me when it comes to crosses.  The symbol of a cross is used so much in silly scary movies (and when it is it is almost always shown with no real power behind it and as something that the evil spirit easily manipulates) that religious iconography of any kind almost comes across as ominous to me now in some settings.  

 

[MustardSeed]

32 minutes ago, randy said:

put another way....If I were given two gifts...one a picture of Christ on the Cross,  or a picture of the Garden Tomb...and I could only choose one to display....I personally would choose the picture of the Garden Tomb.   

Absolutely.  

But we don’t have to choose, right? Is there an assumption that it’s either or?

[MustardSeed]

31 minutes ago, randy said:

Well,  I hope you have a wonderful Easter this coming Sunday!  Take care!

You as well friend

[bluebell]

2 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Absolutely.  

But we don’t have to choose, right? Is there an assumption that it’s either or?

I don't think we have to choose, but I do think that as humans it can be difficult to equally mourn Christ's death and celebrate His resurrection at the same time.   One emotion seems to cancel out the other.  I think that's probably why so many members do choose to focus on what they see as the final result of the Atonement rather than the entirety of it.

[Bernard Gui]

We can wear a cross if we want to. No one would stop us. If it's an issue, wear it under clothing if we wish to avoid whatever insensitive grief some may give.

For what it's worth, here's an essay I wrote on this subject....

 

 Looking for the Cross in All the Wrong Places

"We may not know, we cannot tell, what pains he had to bear,

But we believe it was for us he hung and suffered there." Hymn 194

Some observers find fault with the supposed LDS neglect of the Christian symbol of the cross because of its intentional absence from Mormon church buildings, clothing, jewelry, art, and iconography.(1) Since most Mormons do not openly use the cross or crucifix, one might mistakenly conclude they do not revere the cross. On the contrary, Mormons celebrate the cross with deepest reverence and devotion in their most sacred weekly sacrament meetings.

 Elder Dallin Oaks explained the significance of this meeting.

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  “The ordinance of the sacrament makes the sacrament meeting the most sacred and important meeting in the Church. It is the only Sabbath meeting the entire family can attend together. Its content in addition to the sacrament should always be planned and presented to focus our attention on the Atonement and teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ.”(2)

Elder Jeffery R. Holland said this is the most recent General Conference. (3)

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...In addition to making time for more home-centered gospel instruction, our modified Sunday service is also to reduce the complexity of the meeting schedule in a way that properly emphasizes the sacrament of the Lord’s Supper as the sacred, acknowledged focal point of our weekly worship experience. We are to remember in as personal a way as possible that Christ died from a heart broken by shouldering entirely alone the sins and sorrows of the whole human family....

Brothers and sisters, this hour ordained of the Lord is the most sacred hour of our week. By commandment, we gather for the most universally received ordinance in the Church. It is in memory of Him who asked if the cup He was about to drink could pass, only to press on because He knew that for our sake it could not pass. It will help us if we remember that a symbol of that cup is slowly making its way down the row toward us at the hand of an 11- or 12-year-old deacon.

When the sacred hour comes to present our sacrificial gift to the Lord, we do have our own sins and shortcomings to resolve; that’s why we’re there. But we might be more successful in such contrition if we are mindful of the other broken hearts and sorrowing spirits that surround us. Seated not far away are some who may have wept—outwardly or inwardly—through the entire sacramental hymn and the prayers of those priests. Might we silently take note of that and offer our little crust of comfort and our tiny cup of compassion—might we dedicate it to them? or to the weeping, struggling member who is not in the service and, except for some redemptive ministering on our part, won’t be there next week either? or to our brothers and sisters who are not members of the Church at all but are our brothers and sisters? There is no shortage of suffering in this world, inside the Church and out, so look in any direction and you will find someone whose pain seems too heavy to bear and whose heartache seems never to end. One way to “always remember him” would be to join the Great Physician in His never-ending task of lifting the load from those who are burdened and relieving the pain of those who are distraught.

The paramount reason for attending sacrament meeting is to partake of the sacrament in remembrance of the Atonement of Jesus Christ and to renew the baptismal covenant. There are three parts to the sacrament presentation: singing the hymn by the congregation, blessing the bread and water by the priests, and passing the emblems to the congregation by the deacons. It is during the sacramental hymn that the members of the church express their feelings for Jesus and the Atonement. This is the place to look for the cross in the LDS church.

There are twenty-eight “sacrament hymns” (hymns intended to precede the ordinance of the sacrament) in the LDS hymnbook (4). The texts may include references to the personal meaning of the Atonement, the sufferings of Jesus, the events that took place, and the gratitude of the Saints for His sacrifice. Almost all the texts and music are by LDS composers and poets. It is here that we LDS revere the cross.

 Nine of these hymns use the words cross or crucified. For example, hymn 184: 

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Upon the cross of Calvary they crucified our Lord

And sealed with blood the sacrifice that sanctified his word.

Upon the cross he meekly died for all mankind to see

That death unlocks the passageway into eternity.

Upon the cross our Savior died, but, dying, brought new birth

Through resurrection's miracle to all the sons of earth.

Hymn 173:

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For us the blood of Christ was shed.

For us on Calvary's cross he bled.

And thus dispelled the awful gloom

That else were this creation's doom.

And hymn #190...

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In memory of the Crucified, our Father we have met this hour.

May thy sweet spirit here abide, that all may feel its glowing power.

Our Savior, in Gethsemane, shrank not to drink the bitter cup

And then for us on Calvary, upon the cross was lifted up.

Three use the word “tree” instead of “cross,” as in hymn 185:

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Rev'rently and meekly now, let thy head most humbly bow.

Think of me, thou ransomed one; think what I for thee have done.

With my blood that dripped like rain, sweat in agony of pain,

With my body on the tree I have ransomed even thee.

In this bread now blest for thee, emblem of my body see;

In this water or this wine, emblem of my blood divine.

Oh, remember what was done that the sinner might be won.

On the cross of Calvary I have suffered death for thee.

 “Calvary” or “hill” (the location of the crucifixion) are mentioned in thirteen hymns. For example, hymn 182: 

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We'll sing all hail to Jesus' name and praise and honor give

To him who bled on Calvary's hill and died that we might live.

 Hymns that do not explicitly mention cross, crucifixion, tree, hill, or Calvary still refer to the sufferings endured by Jesus, such as hymn 187:

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God loved us, so he sent his Son, Christ Jesus, the atoning One,

To show us by the path he trod the one and only way to God.

He came as man, though Son of God, and bowed himself beneath the rod.

He died in holy innocence, a broken law to recompense.

Oh, love effulgent, love divine! What debt of gratitude is mine,

That in his off'ring I have part and hold a place within his heart.

This sacrament doth represent his blood and body for me spent.

Partaking now is deed for word that I remember him, my Lord.

 And hymn 191: 

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Behold the great Redeemer die, a broken law to satisfy.

He dies a sacrifice for sin, that man may live and glory win.

While guilty men his pains deride, they pierce his hands and feet and side;

And with insulting scoffs and scorns, they crown his head with plaited thorns.

Although in agony he hung, no murm'ring word escaped his tongue.

His high commission to fulfill, he magnified his Father's will. 

  In 3 Nephi 18: 1, Jesus gave these instructions which are followed every week in every Mormon church:

Quote

“And this shall ye always do to those who repent and are baptized in my name; and ye shall do it in remembrance of my blood, which I have shed for you, that ye may witness unto the Father that ye do always remember me. And if ye do always remember me ye shall have my Spirit to be with you.”

 For many Mormons, these are the most sacred of all their hymns. During the quiet reverence of the sacrament service, they sing of Jesus, His flesh and blood, His suffering and Atonement, the cross. During the passing of the sacrament they reflect on these things, silently repent and ask forgiveness, and pledge to always remember Him. This is where the cross is found in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

 

 (1) http://www.sltrib.co...ith/ci_12256269. Also, many anti-Mormon web sites use this issue to deny Mormons a place in Christianity.

 (2) http://www.lds.org/g...rament?lang=eng

(3)  https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2019/04/28holland?lang=eng

(4) Hymns of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Company, 1985, hymns #169-197.

Edited April 17, 2019 by Bernard Gui

[sheilauk]

I was brought up in churches that do display the cross.  I don't think I'd use the word celebrate to describe it's use.  It is a symbol of His sacrifice (I don't recall it being referenced as an atonement).  It's supposed to be a visible symbol of His presence and an object to help focus contemplation.  It should help us remember Him but sometimes it seems to become an icon and distances worshippers from Him.  And the argument rages over whether it should be a crucifix with Our Lord visible, recognising His sacrifice, or be empty, emphasising His resurrection and that He lives.  It wasnt referred to that often as i recall and it feels to me that it is just another part of the decor.  Personally I think there may be less distraction and contention without it.  I'm sure there are others who feel differently though.  Again,  personally I wouldn't wear a cross and never have because too many use it as a fashion statement without meaning.  However, it can be a powerful symbol and there seems no reason not to wear it when it has beauty and meaning to you.

[bluebell]

3 minutes ago, sheilauk said:

Again,  personally I wouldn't wear a cross and never have because too many use it as a fashion statement without meaning.  

Oh this is so true.  This year's MET Gala theme was just horrible.  

[Calm]

8 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Scary movies have ruined me when it comes to crosses.  The symbol of a cross is used so much in silly scary movies (and when it is it is almost always shown with no real power behind it and as something that the evil spirit easily manipulates) that religious iconography of any kind almost comes across as ominous to me now in some settings.  

The excessive use of crosses in jewelry and tattoos these days often sends me to a negative place as well, though relatively simple uses of it I find pleasing.  I think if symbolically significant to me I would be using a Celtic cross as the balance of it draws my eye (cross with centered circle)  and I love the knot effect many have as embellishment.

Crosses are more identifiers of being a Christian (when I see it in what I respond to as respectful usage) for me rather than bringing my mind to Christ.

Moroni statues/symbols function in pretty much the same way for me.  I prefer the ones blowing the horn as that says something to me.(Awake, awake, come unto Christ!)

Crucifixes actually make me think of Christ and I have no problem with them in most cases, but they can become distracting if they are focused on making it look as horrendous as possible....though that is likely more realistic than the simpler versions.

I understand that those who wear crosses experience them differently as well as many who see them, so not saying they must be only seen as identifiers, etc.

I never thought of them as evil.  Can't remember if I heard that growing up or if was just something we didn't do. Not something my parents or grandparents would talk about (they were never negative or said much of anything about other faiths, but were respectful when they did).  In most of my schools, my family were the only church members until high school and there (Bay Area) we were still small minority (ten to 15, I think I had 1 other member in 5 classes in the four years there, mostly one girl who was into science and gynmastics like me).  There were a number of Evangelicals I knew about, a few Jews, and my best friend from work was a catholic, but other than that I didn't know people's faith save if they wore crosses (I just missed them becoming fashion statements).  I remember thinking when I heard the revolver analogy (though I am pretty sure the first time was a guillotine) I thought it was silly and overdramatic.

[Calm]

37 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Oh this is so true.  This year's MET Gala theme was just horrible.  

I was quite shocked by that.  Here and there, someone who chooses it as an individual style, that I have come to expect.  Organized (at best using religious icons as playthings) disrespect in what is supposedly a high class, well educated gathering...very, very petty and smug. (Though taking a look at the link, it appears most were pretty generic, hopefully because they chose to stay respectful and not because too timid to go to the more extreme).

Edited April 17, 2019 by Calm

[Bernard Gui]

12 minutes ago, Calm said:

I was quite shocked by that.  Here and there, someone who chooses it as an individual style, that I have come to expect.  Organized (at best using religious icons as playthings) disrespect in what is supposedly a high class, well educated gathering...very, very petty and smug.

Anyone can wear a cross. 

[Calm]

57 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Anyone can wear a cross. 

Of course.  So your point?  Not following your train of thought.

Edited April 17, 2019 by Calm

[JAHS]

Most non-catholic Christians who display the cross emphasize the fact that it is an empty cross, representing the living resurrected Christ and His victory over death and the grave.

 

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

Of course.  So your point?  Not following your train of thought.

As per the MET gala, celebrity bling, Google "cross bling." Wearing a cross no more makes one a Christian than wearing a Seahawks sweatshirt makes one Russell Wilson. Anyone can wear a cross or a sweatshirt. It's what one does that counts, not what one wears. Let your light shine through good works, not your bling. I have no problem with sincere Christians even LDS Christians wearing a cross. None whatsoever.

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Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

or

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Let your bling shine before men, that they may see your splendid jewelry and glorify whom???

 

Edited April 18, 2019 by Bernard Gui

[MustardSeed]

Deletion of pointless comment

Edited April 17, 2019 by MustardSeed

[MustardSeed]

An acquaintance of mine wears a very tiny cross around her neck.She’s not at all religious and says that she doesn’t know if God exists or not. But she is a regular at Alcoholics Anonymous And has come to hope that perhaps he does exist. She wears the cross as a symbol of that hope. 

[MustardSeed]

I guess we simply can’t Assume or suppose somebody else’s relationship with their symbolic  Adornment

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

I guess we simply can’t Assume or suppose somebody else’s relationship with their symbolic  Adornment

Certainly. Just as we cannot assume or suppose a lack of or an inferior relationship on the part of someone who chooses not to wear the adornment.

[Maidservant]

I love what Richard Rohr (a Franciscan Father) has to say about the cross.  He has spoken on it often, so one can google his name and 'cross' and get several exquisite commentaries.  This is one of his most recent that I really loved:

The Scapegoat

I personally find the symbolism of the cross to be crucial.  The symbol of Jesus of Nazareth on the cross is a symbol for the actual cross.  The actual cross is our entering and progression in this mortal realm.  If you will notice that the human body IS the cross (shape of the cross).  Thus to enter flesh, to take upon a body, a mortal path, and all that entails--is our crucifixion.  We are all the lambs of God.  We are all Isaac bound to the altar.

The cross is only a portion of the progression template, but, again, a crucial portion.

As jewelry, I'm also in love with the cross.  I have a huge pink jewel encrusted goth cross.  I'm probably going to continue to look for other unique cross jewelry pieces.  And, yes, for me, it would be a celebration to be wearing it.

[MustardSeed]

21 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Certainly. Just as we cannot assume or suppose a lack of or an inferior relationship on the part of someone who chooses not to wear the adornment.

I’ve never come across that specifically but yes.