Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
TheRedHen

Extinction

Recommended Posts

We know from the Book of Moses that everything on Earth was created spiritually.  I assumed all those spirits are warehoused somewhere - probably in the same place our spirits were before coming to Earth.  I also assume that a finite number of spirits associated with this Earth were created, which makes me feel less concerned when a species goes extinct.  Maybe there weren't any more spirit Dinosaurs to come down and the asteroid theory is nonsense.  Any thoughts?

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, TheRedHen said:

We know from the Book of Moses that everything on Earth was created spiritually.  I assumed all those spirits are warehoused somewhere - probably in the same place our spirits were before coming to Earth.  I also assume that a finite number of spirits associated with this Earth were created, which makes me feel less concerned when a species goes extinct.  Maybe there weren't any more spirit Dinosaurs to come down and the asteroid theory is nonsense.  Any thoughts?

You mean created first spiritually?   A finite number of spirits .would be reasonable but finite is really not a Godly concept it is much more human way of seeing. 
Less concerned when a species goes extinct? No not really because there is so much evidence that peoples mismangnement and downright not caring is causing present extinctions.


 

Share this post


Link to post
23 minutes ago, TheRedHen said:

We know from the Book of Moses that everything on Earth was created spiritually.  I assumed all those spirits are warehoused somewhere - probably in the same place our spirits were before coming to Earth.  I also assume that a finite number of spirits associated with this Earth were created, which makes me feel less concerned when a species goes extinct.  Maybe there weren't any more spirit Dinosaurs to come down and the asteroid theory is nonsense.  Any thoughts?

The asteroid theory.

Joseph Smith commented on that:

“Judah must return, Jerusalem must be rebuilt, and the temple, and water come out from under the temple, and the waters of the Dead Sea be healed. It will take some time to rebuild the walls of the city and the temple, and etc.; and all this must be done before the Son of Man will make His appearance. There will be wars and rumors of wars, signs in the heavens above and on the earth beneath, the sun turned into darkness and the moon to blood, earthquakes in divers places, the seas heaving beyond their bounds; then will appear one grand sign of the Son of Man in heaven. But what will the world do? They will say it is a planet, a comet, etc. But the Son of man will come as the sign of the coming of the Son of Man, which will be as the light of the morning cometh out of the east” (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 286–87).

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Sure, here are my thoughts: That is ridiculous nonsense used to justify planetary mismanagement as the will of God. I had a better point when I tried to get out of mowing the lawn by arguing that all that grass had spirits and they would not fit inside the grass anymore. My dad did not endorse this reasoning.

It doesn’t seem to be a finite number of spirits for lawn weeds.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
23 minutes ago, Burnside said:

It doesn’t seem to be a finite number of spirits for lawn weeds.

I have not found that distinction in scripture or the revelations.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, TheRedHen said:

We know from the Book of Moses that everything on Earth was created spiritually.  I assumed all those spirits are warehoused somewhere - probably in the same place our spirits were before coming to Earth.  I also assume that a finite number of spirits associated with this Earth were created, which makes me feel less concerned when a species goes extinct.  Maybe there weren't any more spirit Dinosaurs to come down and the asteroid theory is nonsense.  Any thoughts?

The idea that everything was created first spiritually is problematic for the theory of evolution, so if you're going to believe the former and eschew the latter, you've already ventured into a much larger conversation.

As for the asteroid theory being unneeded because of the "limited number of dinosaur spirits" theory, you might have a point if there was no other support for the theory.  But there is apparently some other evidence other than just needing to make something up to explain the disappearance of dinosaurs...

https://www2.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/dinosaur-extinction.html

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, TheRedHen said:

We know from the Book of Moses that everything on Earth was created spiritually.  I assumed all those spirits are warehoused somewhere - probably in the same place our spirits were before coming to Earth.  I also assume that a finite number of spirits associated with this Earth were created, which makes me feel less concerned when a species goes extinct.  Maybe there weren't any more spirit Dinosaurs to come down and the asteroid theory is nonsense.  Any thoughts?

Scripture is neither a book of physics nor taxonomy nor natural history.

Scripture is for our spiritual progress and edification.  In that context, AND in the spirit of the very first sentence of your post, there is a contradiction of context.

Can you find it?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
55 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Sure, here are my thoughts: That is ridiculous nonsense used to justify planetary mismanagement as the will of God. I had a better point when I tried to get out of mowing the lawn by arguing that all that grass had spirits and they would not fit inside the grass anymore. My dad did not endorse this reasoning.

Well, that was grumpy.  It also didn't answer any questions, but thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Burnside said:

The asteroid theory.

Joseph Smith commented on that:

“Judah must return, Jerusalem must be rebuilt, and the temple, and water come out from under the temple, and the waters of the Dead Sea be healed. It will take some time to rebuild the walls of the city and the temple, and etc.; and all this must be done before the Son of Man will make His appearance. There will be wars and rumors of wars, signs in the heavens above and on the earth beneath, the sun turned into darkness and the moon to blood, earthquakes in divers places, the seas heaving beyond their bounds; then will appear one grand sign of the Son of Man in heaven. But what will the world do? They will say it is a planet, a comet, etc. But the Son of man will come as the sign of the coming of the Son of Man, which will be as the light of the morning cometh out of the east” (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 286–87).

All of these of course are SIGNS with spiritual significance

And some who do not understand that will give them natural and historical interpretations which is precisely what Joseph is saying.

Note the important word AS in your very quote:

"But the Son of man will come AS the sign of the coming of the Son of Man, which will be as the light of the morning cometh out of the east”

In English the word "AS" indicates a simile or metaphor.

The moon will not "really" turn to blood.

These are all for our spiritual interpretation by communing with the Holy Spirit and receiving our own spiritual interpretations to help us become better spiritually.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
46 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

All of these of course are SIGNS with spiritual significance

And some who do not understand that will give them natural and historical interpretations which is precisely what Joseph is saying.

Note the important word AS in your very quote:

"But the Son of man will come AS the sign of the coming of the Son of Man, which will be as the light of the morning cometh out of the east”

In English the word "AS" indicates a simile or metaphor.

The moon will not "really" turn to blood.

These are all for our spiritual interpretation by communing with the Holy Spirit and receiving our own spiritual interpretations to help us become better spiritually.

Pres. Hinckley stated in a Priesthood general conference session, that the Moon turning to Blood has already been fulfilled.

No matter, the quote I emphasized is what the World will state. Oh, it’s a comet, a planet (asteroid). Thus you see in the media the fear of asteroids once again causing an extinction. 

Such as articles like this as recent as Feb 2019.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1086118/asteroid-warning-crash-earth-asteroids-simulation-video

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Burnside said:

Pres. Hinckley stated in a Priesthood general conference session, that the Moon turning to Blood has already been fulfilled.

Link? Or is this like the time I was told that President Faust said that we were living in the seventh seal in a conference talk?

Edited by The Nehor

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, TheRedHen said:

Well, that was grumpy.  It also didn't answer any questions, but thanks.

What question? Your premises are flawed and your conclusion does not follow from them. Okay fine, I will play in this weird hypothetical. Okay, there are a limited number of dinosaur spirits? Not sure if I agree with that as a premise but it is not impossible. God ran out and they just stopped reproducing? So can we expect that to happen to humans at the end of the Millenium too? Why do most extinctions we observe now have causes? Did God know in advance how many he needed? That makes some sense. Why not use a disaster to end the species? Okay, now we do not have to explain away the collision. Nice and neat.

Even if God knew it would happen in advance it does not support your conclusion that God is okay with our helping species towards extinction. You might as well argue that you can beat your child because God saw it in advance and will find a way to correct the damage you do. He will but you are still responsible.

Share this post


Link to post

According to my reading the vast majority of species that ever lived went extinct before man placed his tender tootsies on the planet. Man can be quite efficient in removing species, but it should be remembered that when the pioneers crossed the plains there were about 400 million gophers. After 150+ YEARS OF SHOOTING, POISONING AND EXPLODING THE GOPHERS,  there are about ….400 million left. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

According to my reading the vast majority of species that ever lived went extinct before man placed his tender tootsies on the planet. Man can be quite efficient in removing species, but it should be remembered that when the pioneers crossed the plains there were about 400 million gophers. After 150+ YEARS OF SHOOTING, POISONING AND EXPLODING THE GOPHERS,  there are about ….400 million left. 

Yeah, and some species are trying to go extinct on their own and we will not let them. I am looking at you PANDAS!

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, TheRedHen said:

We know from the Book of Moses that everything on Earth was created spiritually.  I assumed all those spirits are warehoused somewhere - probably in the same place our spirits were before coming to Earth.  I also assume that a finite number of spirits associated with this Earth were created, which makes me feel less concerned when a species goes extinct.  Maybe there weren't any more spirit Dinosaurs to come down and the asteroid theory is nonsense.  Any thoughts?

Spirits are not created but are eternal. If it read everything was spiritually organized, I think it would be more clear. Everything was spiritually organized so as to meet the potential of its creation.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, cinepro said:

The idea that everything was created first spiritually is problematic for the theory of evolution,

Wow I have never thought or heard this idea, very impressive indeed. Is this your own concept?

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Burnside said:

Pres. Hinckley stated in a Priesthood general conference session, that the Moon turning to Blood has already been fulfilled.

No matter, the quote I emphasized is what the World will state. Oh, it’s a comet, a planet (asteroid). Thus you see in the media the fear of asteroids once again causing an extinction. 

Such as articles like this as recent as Feb 2019.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1086118/asteroid-warning-crash-earth-asteroids-simulation-video

Yes I am aware that the earth may be hit by an asteroid at some point.  That is a scientific fact.  The planets won't care, the universe will go on as if nothing happened because it is a natural event that probably happens hundreds or thousands of times in what we call a "day" throughout the universe.  In effect nothing ordinary DID happen as the earth exploded into smithereens.   No significance whatsoever, the universe continues its flows and eddies.  It's about as significant as a wave crashing onto a beach.

So what does that have to do with the spiritual significance of a belief in the Second Coming of Christ?

Did you read my post where I quoted YOU saying that everything has spiritual significance?  Where is the spiritual significance of the end of the earth?

The earth being hit by an asteroid has no spiritual significance.

The earth being ended by God has infinite spiritual significance.  If God threw it, what is the significance of that?

If the earth burns and God started the fire, what does that mean for us as humanity?

Those are some of the questions about significance you might want to look at and possibly discuss instead of worrying about how it might happen.

 

Edited by mfbukowski
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
7 hours ago, Burnside said:

It doesn’t seem to be a finite number of spirits for lawn weeds.

How does one count spirits anyway?

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

How does one count spirits anyway?

By putting them all on the head of a pin and commanding them to dance.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
14 hours ago, The Nehor said:

What question? Your premises are flawed and your conclusion does not follow from them. Okay fine, I will play in this weird hypothetical. Okay, there are a limited number of dinosaur spirits? Not sure if I agree with that as a premise but it is not impossible. God ran out and they just stopped reproducing? So can we expect that to happen to humans at the end of the Millenium too? Why do most extinctions we observe now have causes? Did God know in advance how many he needed? That makes some sense. Why not use a disaster to end the species? Okay, now we do not have to explain away the collision. Nice and neat.

Even if God knew it would happen in advance it does not support your conclusion that God is okay with our helping species towards extinction. You might as well argue that you can beat your child because God saw it in advance and will find a way to correct the damage you do. He will but you are still responsible.

Now you’ve just bored me.

Share this post


Link to post
9 minutes ago, TheRedHen said:

Now you’ve just bored me.

Karma.

Share this post


Link to post
18 hours ago, TheRedHen said:

Maybe there weren't any more spirit Dinosaurs to come down and the asteroid theory is nonsense.  Any thoughts?

Sure.

In the dinosaurs we can see a similitude of our own existence. They were brought here to populate the earth by their god, Rexoheim, and given physical bodies to house their spirits. After a really long time, Rex decides to start the dinosaur apocalypse with an asteroid, after which the earth is returned to its paradisiacal glory and for a thousand years dinosaurs roam the earth in peace and tranquility. Now the worthy ones are off living together forever as a dinosaur family and organizing other planets to give physical bodies to more dinosaur spirits and the cycle starts all over. Each time they are finished with a world, our God moves in  makes a few changes and starts bringing humans to the earth. 

This explains how the earth can be only 6000 years old, have no death before the fall and have dinosaur bones from hundreds of thousands of years back.

That's my theory at least.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
19 hours ago, TheRedHen said:

We know from the Book of Moses that everything on Earth was created spiritually.  I assumed all those spirits are warehoused somewhere - probably in the same place our spirits were before coming to Earth.  I also assume that a finite number of spirits associated with this Earth were created, which makes me feel less concerned when a species goes extinct.  Maybe there weren't any more spirit Dinosaurs to come down and the asteroid theory is nonsense.  Any thoughts?

We are co-eternal with God.  Spirit is matter.  Matter cannot be created or uncreated.  While not explicit in LDS theology, I think an implication can be drawn that animals are also in progression.  Creation normally does not mean to 'not exist' then 'to exist'.  It has a deeper, transformative, progression based meaning.  As far as the science, I am sure that the template or at least the knowledge of technology to produce any kind of body exists already.  (Bodies are technology; a technology that facilitates progression among other things.)

16 hours ago, Burnside said:

Pres. Hinckley stated in a Priesthood general conference session, that the Moon turning to Blood has already been fulfilled.

 

16 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Link? Or is this like the time I was told that President Faust said that we were living in the seventh seal in a conference talk?

I remember this.  Or at least he said a prophecy was fulfilled but I don't remember which one, but I remembered it was 'one of those' and it startled me.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Link? Or is this like the time I was told that President Faust said that we were living in the seventh seal in a conference talk?

Sorry, my computer won't provide the link. The Talk was in October 2001 Conference. It was President Hinckley and the talk is titled "Living in the Fulness of Times". He said "The vision of Joel has been fulfilled wherein he declared:..." and quoted the scripture.

Edited by filovirus
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By nuclearfuels
      First, please be patient as you read these. This question makes sense in my mind but laying it down correctly is kind of tricky.
      PGP (Moses 3) states all things were created spiritually before they were created temporally. 
      Went to the Sacred Grove in Palmyra, NY recently - a very kind senior missionary/guide told me there were a few "Witness trees" still in the Sacred Grove, these would be trees that were there when the First Vision occurred. 
      Numbers 22:21-38 Balaam and the talking donkey
      The animals in the Manger in Bethlehem where the Savior was born
      The Trees in the Garden of Gethsemane
      Isaiah - Lion and the lamb shall lie down together without any ire, suggesting they have the ability to progress to a state of total peace?
      The Story of the Three Trees (which I understand is not doctrine but IMHO could be, as the spirit bodies of those trees could have demonstrated more faith premortally, than other plants and been given temporary probationary lives on earth where they interacted with the Savior): 
      “Says one, ‘I cannot believe in the salvation of beasts.’ Any man who would tell you this could not be, would tell you that the revelations are not true. John heard the words of the beast giving glory to God, and understood them. God who made the beasts could understand every language spoken by them. The beasts were four of the most noble animals that filled the measure of their creation, and had been saved from other worlds, because they were perfect. They were like angels in their sphere. We are not told where they came from, and I do not know; but they were seen and heard by John praising and glorifying God.” (DHC, vol. 5, pp. 343–44.)
      The ask: Though plants and animals don't have free agency, some of them clearly had more spiritual encounters during their lives on earth.  Does this suggest some of them were more valiant in the testimony of the Savior premortally?
       
    • By Peppermint Patty
      My sister-in-law just emailed me three different second hand accounts of dog sacrifice and Joseph Smith.  I've never heard anything like this before and it sure feels like some made up anti-Mormon accusations to me.
       
      Can someone with more light and knowledge help me out on this?  Is this real or bogus? Have these accounts been debunked before?
       
      -In the time of their digging for money and not finding it attainable, Joe Smith told them there was a charm on the pots of money, and if some animal was killed and the blood sprinkled around the place, then they could get it. So they killed a dog, and tried this method of obtaining the precious metal; but again money was scarce in those diggings. Still, they dug and dug, but never came to the precious treasure. Alas! how vivid was the expectation when the blood of poor Tray was used to take off the charm, and after all to find their mistake. Emily Coburn, in Emily M. Austin, Mormonism; or, Life Among the Mormons, 1882, pp. 32-33
       
      -Hiel Lewis affirmed that Smith translated the Book of Mormon by means of the same enchanting spirit that directed Smith to make dog sacrifices. Dr. Quinn wrote, "A cousin of Smith's wife Emma reported that Smith 'translated the book of Mormon by means of the same peep stone, and under the same inspiration that directed his enchantments and dog sacrifices; it was all by the same spirit' (H. Lewis 1879)" (Quinn, 1987 edition, p. 144).

      -Justice Joel King Noble, who tried Smith in an 1830 trial in Colesville, N.Y., related in a letter that when Joe Smith and others were digging "for a Chest of money," they acquired a black dog and offered it as "a sacrafise [blo]od Sprinkled prayer made at the time (no money obtained) the above Sworn to on trial. . . ." (Letter of Justice Noble, dated March 8, 1842, photographically reproduced in Walters, "Joseph Smith's Bainbridge, N.Y., Court Trials," p. 134).
    • By BCSpace
      Perhaps someone could shed light on Catholic theology here as well as what Pope Benedict XVI said in 2008. We all know that LDS doctrine is that animals have spirits. See here for example.
       
      Can't say that I agree with PETA though as promoting a Vegan lifestyle is contrary to scripture. (1 Tim 4:3, D&C 49:18)
×
×
  • Create New...