MustardSeed Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 I’m a pretty positive person, my life is pretty good generally. But I’m starting to see a few things clearly and it’s disappointing to me. One thing I recognize clearly is my shortcomings as a spiritual leader in the home. My husband is not a leader. I didn’t want the role so I didn’t do enough. I have three very active children and two who are not so active. Good people, all of them . Anyway, yet another combined lesson on come follow me yesterday. I just couldn’t sit through another one. I feel beyond inadequate and hopeless. The Chaff, I suppose. Someone has to fulfill the prophesy for you all, you’re welcome I did not fulfill my calling as mother. We did all the activities, but missed the spirit. I know my original error but could not have seen it when I was 23 and setting my course. 2 Link to comment
Popular Post The Nehor Posted April 15, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 15, 2019 (edited) You are trying. That puts you in the top 20% of LDS in regards to the Come Follow Me curriculum and gets you a spot on the bounteous blessings list. Edited April 15, 2019 by The Nehor 7 Link to comment
Popular Post rchorse Posted April 15, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 15, 2019 (edited) Feelings of inadequacy and hopelessness don't come from God. Nobody is a perfect parent, and whether children stay in the church or not is dependent on so many factors (especially the child's agency) that it can't be attributed to just one thing. I know many great parents who did everything right, but still had some or most of their children leave the church. I don't agree with the line of thinking that if the parents do everything right, the children will always stay faithful. If that were true, then we'd have to ask what God did wrong to lose 1/3 of his children in the pre-earth life. All that matters is that we do our best. Only we and God know if we have done that or not. Edited April 15, 2019 by rchorse 5 Link to comment
Metis_LDS Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 (edited) I was moved by your post. We naturally look at the present as human beings and project that into the future. The scriptures testify that changes can occur from the present to have a better future. When the pain is great we despair and that is a very human trait. I will pray that Lord will show forth blessings to make manifest His mighty power of change and hope in your life Edited April 15, 2019 by Metis_LDS missing letter and word 4 Link to comment
Popular Post Rain Posted April 15, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 15, 2019 I learned some time ago with my children there is nothing I can do to change the past and I made some real mistakes, so I can only trust the Lord and look at the present and future. Heavenly Father knows that I, like my children, are still learning. He knows that my children were going to have a mom that didn't understand how to do it all when they were born. The atonement is not only there for my children, or there for me, but also there for me as a mom. So I have to go back to Elder Scott's talk, "I Have Given Unto You An Example" where he shares things like, "Remember, loving them is the powerful foundation for influencing those you want to help." Then I have to go to something the Spirit said to me about one of my children, "You don't know my whole plan for him." So I trust God, or sometimes work on trusting Him, that even with my imperfections as a mother He has a bigger plan for my children and I just need to remember "Giving them confidence in your love can help them develop faith in God’s love. Then through your loving, thoughtful communication, their lives will be blessed by your sharing lessons you have learned, experiences you have had, and principles you have followed to find solutions to your own struggles. Show your sincere interest in their well-being; " and when the timing is right "share your testimony of the gospel of Jesus Christ." 8 Link to comment
Popular Post BlueDreams Posted April 15, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 15, 2019 (edited) We can't measure our success as parents based on the activity of our children. My aunt and Uncle are wonderful parents who raised their children in the gospel....and only 1 of their 4 adult children are currently active. Meanwhile my parents - who have some serious faults and didn't do "all the activities" and not only "missed the spirit" but could also drag the spirit out of the home - have 5 adult children, 3 of which are still active. By these numbers, we should assume that a caustic spiritual home environment is the best at getting kids on the right track. Personally, I'd rather follow the example of my aunt and uncle. Talking of Come follow me, my husband and I were reading the part about Christ calling Peter's revelatory declaration of who Jesus was "the Rock." I was struck less by this and more by the fact that immediately after that, Christ tells them about his imminent death and the apostles start misinterpreting and questioning what he actually meant. It struck me that even with Christ physically before them they got things wrong...so how can we, who must generally rely on the Spirit to guide us in our revelation and direction, expect to not get things wrong or make error in interpreting what we need to do? God does not expect perfection in our parenting and our course. Our course with Him is the perfecting element. With luv, BD Edited April 15, 2019 by BlueDreams 10 Link to comment
Jeanne Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 57 minutes ago, MustardSeed said: I’m a pretty positive person, my life is pretty good generally. But I’m starting to see a few things clearly and it’s disappointing to me. One thing I recognize clearly is my shortcomings as a spiritual leader in the home. My husband is not a leader. I didn’t want the role so I didn’t do enough. I have three very active children and two who are not so active. Good people, all of them . Anyway, yet another combined lesson on come follow me yesterday. I just couldn’t sit through another one. I feel beyond inadequate and hopeless. The Chaff, I suppose. Someone has to fulfill the prophesy for you all, you’re welcome I did not fulfill my calling as mother. We did all the activities, but missed the spirit. I know my original error but could not have seen it when I was 23 and setting my course. In someways this post reminds me of mother. Please..please..for all the expectations of others and expectations of your self, don't let this take away your worth. You are worthy to love and to receive it. 2 Link to comment
Rain Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 (edited) Since this talks about Come Follow Me - I wonder how many people feel like they have failed as parents because Come Follow Me isn't working well for them, especially when it seems to work so well for others. We currently have 2 children at home (17 and 20). Both are good kids, gospel oriented and spiritually minded. As a parent with our family CFM sessions it has not been easy. In fact it has been frustrating and I get a little irritated when I hear "it is surprising because some of the best families are not doing it" because depending on what comment my son might make you might think they were talking about us. Not that it matters what someone else thinks, just it isn't rosy for all if us even if families where everyone participating IS spiritually minded so I can imagine it is tougher when everyone is not. I think we are finally getting to a spot where things are going well. We just needed to adjust things to fit what our family needed. That is going to be different in every family and will change as people change and come and go. And that was stated from the start - that you fit it to your family, but when you hear all these great stories of it going well, and condemnations you perceive of your family you may start to think "something is wrong with me" when really it just takes time/prayer to see what fits for you. Edited April 15, 2019 by Rain 4 Link to comment
Popular Post randy Posted April 15, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 15, 2019 NO NO NO!!!! DO NOT allow these feelings of being "less than" take root in your heart! DO NOT ALLOW IT! I don't post much on this board, but I do come everyday and read what others are doing and saying. I want to share something with you. Our family was baptized way back in "64". My father was baptized, but never darkened a church door again the rest of his life. My Mother...very much a saintly woman in every sense of the word...tried her best. She had three sons....all three of which were non-willing participants every Sunday morning. But, overtime...the strain of constantly trying to make up for an absent father (in spiritual leadership) took it's toll on her. BUT, she was an excellent "seed planter"! She WAS a woman of faith, she WAS strong in all the important ways. SO ARE YOU!!! God knows the righteous desires of your heart!! BELIEVE IT!! He does! Now...fast forward to my family. My bride and I got married very, very young. We have six grown children. 24 grandchildren. Of our six, 3 are active, 1 was excommunicated, the other two just are choosing not to fellowship with the Saints. But like you said.....ALL are good kids...they are wonderful in every respect. My wife and I did our best too! I tried as best I could given what few tools I was given in my tool box during my childhood. But, I know the Lord knows! I know in my heart....that as I reflect on what I could have done better and/or differently....perhaps it may have made a difference....no doubt it could have. Having said that, the Lord knows I STILL TRIED MY BEST!! SO DID YOU!!! Please....do not allow the Advesary to cause you to feel guilt because of the choices being made by your family. It is heartwrenching to watch it....I know. I have cried many, many tears over them. But, of all the feelings in my heart that cause me pain and anguish....guilt is not one of them. Yes, I could've done better....but I did my best with what I was given...and with the best understanding of the gospel that I had. Please, please... understand and always remember that our other family members have their agency to choose to! It's heartbreaking to see them make choices that we know will cause them heartache and pain....and cause them to separate themselves even further from their Savior...but it's their choice. Do not allow Satan the victory of you giving up to his lies! DON'T ALLOW IT!! You did your best.....you are STILL trying to do your best!! At the end of the day....that is all that the Lord expects of us!! Now...I want to share something else with you. I work nites…..and I just got up two hours ago. My wife is gone for the next several weeks....so Iam alone in this VERY quiet house...all by myself with my thoughts. When I woke up...I layed in bed....staring at the ceiling...and I started thinking of my family. Then I remembered some of the things that we were taught in Conference last week. I rolled out of bed, and poured my heart out to HF....asking for his help and blessing for my family, especially those three kids. As I was praying, the distinct impression came to me to pray for a "preparation to receive miracles". As I continued to pray....that thought crystalized a bit more, and I told HF and the Savior...that from that moment on....I was going to do the hard work and preparation needed to have some miracles happen in our family. I told HF that I was done with standing on the sidelines thinking miracles were for "everyone else"! The time has come for miracles to happen in MY FAMILY!! As I continued to talk with HF about this...I began to see more clearly exactly what I needed to do. After I got up from praying....I came in here and read your post! It hit me like a ton of bricks! You and I are in the exact same place!! We both are exhausted....physically, emotionally and spiritually. We need help. We NEED miracles! We can receive both! So....I just want you to know from here in Fort Worth Texas....I am going to log off here and go pray for you! We both must believe and have faith that if we ask HF, having faith in Christ...it will be given to us! You and I need to make this OUR TIME for OUR miracles!! with love, your Brother in the Gospel, Randy 9 Link to comment
Popular Post Rain Posted April 15, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 15, 2019 11 minutes ago, randy said: NO NO NO!!!! DO NOT allow these feelings of being "less than" take root in your heart! DO NOT ALLOW IT! I don't post much on this board, but I do come everyday and read what others are doing and saying. I want to share something with you. Our family was baptized way back in "64". My father was baptized, but never darkened a church door again the rest of his life. My Mother...very much a saintly woman in every sense of the word...tried her best. She had three sons....all three of which were non-willing participants every Sunday morning. But, overtime...the strain of constantly trying to make up for an absent father (in spiritual leadership) took it's toll on her. BUT, she was an excellent "seed planter"! She WAS a woman of faith, she WAS strong in all the important ways. SO ARE YOU!!! God knows the righteous desires of your heart!! BELIEVE IT!! He does! Now...fast forward to my family. My bride and I got married very, very young. We have six grown children. 24 grandchildren. Of our six, 3 are active, 1 was excommunicated, the other two just are choosing not to fellowship with the Saints. But like you said.....ALL are good kids...they are wonderful in every respect. My wife and I did our best too! I tried as best I could given what few tools I was given in my tool box during my childhood. But, I know the Lord knows! I know in my heart....that as I reflect on what I could have done better and/or differently....perhaps it may have made a difference....no doubt it could have. Having said that, the Lord knows I STILL TRIED MY BEST!! SO DID YOU!!! Please....do not allow the Advesary to cause you to feel guilt because of the choices being made by your family. It is heartwrenching to watch it....I know. I have cried many, many tears over them. But, of all the feelings in my heart that cause me pain and anguish....guilt is not one of them. Yes, I could've done better....but I did my best with what I was given...and with the best understanding of the gospel that I had. Please, please... understand and always remember that our other family members have their agency to choose to! It's heartbreaking to see them make choices that we know will cause them heartache and pain....and cause them to separate themselves even further from their Savior...but it's their choice. Do not allow Satan the victory of you giving up to his lies! DON'T ALLOW IT!! You did your best.....you are STILL trying to do your best!! At the end of the day....that is all that the Lord expects of us!! Now...I want to share something else with you. I work nites…..and I just got up two hours ago. My wife is gone for the next several weeks....so Iam alone in this VERY quiet house...all by myself with my thoughts. When I woke up...I layed in bed....staring at the ceiling...and I started thinking of my family. Then I remembered some of the things that we were taught in Conference last week. I rolled out of bed, and poured my heart out to HF....asking for his help and blessing for my family, especially those three kids. As I was praying, the distinct impression came to me to pray for a "preparation to receive miracles". As I continued to pray....that thought crystalized a bit more, and I told HF and the Savior...that from that moment on....I was going to do the hard work and preparation needed to have some miracles happen in our family. I told HF that I was done with standing on the sidelines thinking miracles were for "everyone else"! The time has come for miracles to happen in MY FAMILY!! As I continued to talk with HF about this...I began to see more clearly exactly what I needed to do. After I got up from praying....I came in here and read your post! It hit me like a ton of bricks! You and I are in the exact same place!! We both are exhausted....physically, emotionally and spiritually. We need help. We NEED miracles! We can receive both! So....I just want you to know from here in Fort Worth Texas....I am going to log off here and go pray for you! We both must believe and have faith that if we ask HF, having faith in Christ...it will be given to us! You and I need to make this OUR TIME for OUR miracles!! with love, your Brother in the Gospel, Randy This has been one of the hardest things for me. I was very much dealing with it when everywhere I was going I was hearing about mothers with faith. You know it logically, but it slammed against the wall that no matter how much faith I had I couldn't change the agency of my children. I absolutely hated hearing about faithful mothers for awhile and still it isn't easy. And that's where I just have to keep going back to trusting God. It has never been all on me. 5 Link to comment
stemelbow Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 I am sorry to hear it. But, as life goes, there are better days ahead. There's no need, at all, to treat a bad day as a sign that your life started the wrong course 23 years earlier. I get down like you describe above too, and honestly for me, it feels good to put myself in such a place from time to time, because well....there are so many with the toughest roads to venture down. I'm feeling confident you are a delightful person to be around. I"m sure I'd be blessed to know you, beyond this world of frank religious talk. Link to comment
randy Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 Rain, I hear what you're saying! My Wife and I discuss this topic quite a bit. All I know is this...my Wife and I are doing our best. Like you...it was very difficult for me not to compare my "faithfulness" to that of others. But, looking back on my life...my Wife and I met in 5th grade, got married the summer of our Sophmore year..she didn't finish HS, I barely did. We had 3 kids before we were 19 (I know I know! haha)….I had no education....and seemingly no future, at least not financially. We were the "Ward project", and I say that lovingly and with gratitude. But, we kept fighting the good fight...and as kids raising kids....I was a mess. I made SO MANY HUGE mistakes....but my wife was patient with me for the next 24 yrs until the Lord blessed me with a job that I could finally pay the bills. So, although I wasn't the best at many things...I tried to do be good at the two most important things....loving my wife, and loving my children. I suppose that is what I want that Sister above to always remember. She IS a wonderful Mom in all the most important ways. She may not be a scriptorian, or have 100 percent attendance at all activities etc....but, I've come to learn and understand (finally)...that is not what the Lord was expecting of me. He expects me to love my family, provide for my family, be the best Priesthood man I can be (not comparing myself to anyone else) strive to be a good Husband and Father. The rest is "as I am able". Watching our kids make choices that we know will bring serious repurcussions….brings such heartache. Then Satan of course is right there ready to convince us that it's OUR FAULT! Yes..TRUST IN GOD!! That's it...it's all right there in those two words! Thank you! 4 Link to comment
Maestrophil Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, MustardSeed said: I’m a pretty positive person, my life is pretty good generally. But I’m starting to see a few things clearly and it’s disappointing to me. One thing I recognize clearly is my shortcomings as a spiritual leader in the home. My husband is not a leader. I didn’t want the role so I didn’t do enough. I have three very active children and two who are not so active. Good people, all of them . Anyway, yet another combined lesson on come follow me yesterday. I just couldn’t sit through another one. I feel beyond inadequate and hopeless. The Chaff, I suppose. Someone has to fulfill the prophesy for you all, you’re welcome I did not fulfill my calling as mother. We did all the activities, but missed the spirit. I know my original error but could not have seen it when I was 23 and setting my course. I did not want to 'like' your comment, because that seemed inappropriate to what I wanted to express. Know that you are not alone - there are many of us who struggle to understand where we failed as parents when we have wayward children. I know I beat myself up daily. I believe that, 1. The Lord knows your heart and will judge you efforts as much or more on your desires than on your efficacy., 2. Every parent will mess up in some way or fall short., 3. Time will reveal many things you did right as your kids grow and change - even now, if you choose to measure your kids by the content of their overall character, rather than their current level of activity, you will likely find things to be very proud of., 4. All of us would fare much better if we could go back in time knowing what we know now., 5. The Atonement is real and will take care of a ton of this - especially in the eternities. Easy things for me to say, since it is my struggle too - but try to be kind to yourself. I am sure you are a great momma!! 🙂 Edited April 15, 2019 by Maestrophil 3 Link to comment
Kenngo1969 Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 (edited) Mustard Seed, [PLEASE NOTE: BEFORE YOU READ FURTHER, THIS IS INTENDED AS ENCOURAGEMENT AND NOT CRITICISM. IF YOU'RE INCLINED TO SEE ONLY CRITICISM, COME BACK LATER!!!! ] With all due respect, I ain't buyin' what you're tryin' to sell! Are you any better than the average Latter-day Saint? Maybe, maybe not. I couldn't say, because I don't know you. Are you any worse? Again, I don't know you, so I couldn't say for sure, but based solely on my interactions with you here, I have to say that I seriously doubt it. That makes you ... pretty much the same as any Latter-day Saint who posts here (more or less), and pretty much the same as any Latter-day Saint you see in the pews of your local chapel every week. I'm not sure if you saw my response to your recent my-family-probably won't-be-exalted-and-I'm-OK-with-that post on another thread, but here it is again (not completely verbatim, and with some additional embellishment, but as best as I can reconstruct it): You're not finished. Members of your family are not finished. Yes, mortal life is important. Yes, it should be used wisely. Yes, some of us are going to use it more wisely than others. But the work of salvation and exaltation doesn't end, for you, for me, or for anyone else, just because mortal life ends. This is only the Second Act. There was a premortal First Act, and there will be a post-mortal (eternal!) Third Act. God exalts people. It's what He does. Pretty much, it's all He does. (See Moses 1:39). He's very good at it. He's been doing it for a long time. He'll be doing it for a long time yet. He has a long time (Eternity!) to do it. God's only real limitation is that He can't make someone into something s/he doesn't want to become. That's it. (Maybe that's what you're worried about, but the good news is, He's also very persuasive. ) The only real questions, then, are "Do you want to be exalted?" and "Do you want your family to be exalted?" That's 99% of the battle right there, and if the answers are "Yes," then you're already up on most of the people in this world. Again, God's only real limitation is that He can't make someone into something that person doesn't want to become. Stephen E. Robinson (God rest his soul), told the Parable of the Bicycle. His daughter wanted a bicycle. He encouraged her to save her pennies, nickles, and dimes, and eventually, she would have enough for a bicycle. She did odd jobs for a little here and a little there for quite awhile, finally going to her father in tears and lamenting the (very real, in her tender little heart) fact that she would never have enough for a bicycle. Her daddy asked her, "How much do you have?" She said something like, "Sixty cents." So they made a deal: Brother Robinson said that since she was his daughter and he loved her, she could give her father the sixty cents, a hug and a kiss, and in return, she got the bicycle (which, although it wasn't very expensive, still was something she was unlikely, at that rate, ever to be able to afford on her own). Well, that "sixty cents, a hug and a kiss" is the equivalent of what God wants from us, and the bicycle is the equivalent of what He gives to us in return: Something which, no matter how much we might try, and work, and scrimp, and save, comparatively speaking, we'll be unable to get on our own. The Atonement isn't about what you do, or what anyone in your family does (or doesn't do): God neither wants nor needs our piddly little sixty cents; He simply wants us to show Him that we want what He wants to give us. The Atonement is about what Christ did for us. As Jim's wife, Joann, told him in the Church of Jesus Christ production The Prodigal Son, "None of us can make it halfway through this life or into the next without the Savior." Someone, Brad Wilcox, I think, once wrote (paraphrasing) that we all have this image of God as a Stern Task Master who will be the one explaining all of the reasons why we won't be allowed to stay when we return to Him, while we plead to be allowed to stay. In reality, he says, we have that exactly backward: God is the one who pleads with us to do what's necessary to be allowed to stay in His presence, while we, when we do return to His presence, will be the ones who (since we feel so uncomfortable and awkward) will be the ones saying, "Get me outta here!" If you're finally waking up to the fact that you and those around you are imperfect, mortal, fallible human beings, welcome to the club! "Lord, I believe. Help Thou mine unbelief" (Mark 9:24). As Elder Jeffrey R. Holland once said (paraphrasing), imperfect, fallible, mortal human beings are all God has ever had to work with. That must be terribly frustrating to him, but He deals with it. So I guess the bottom line is, "Do you want it?" Again, God's only real limitation is that even He, powerful as He is, cannot exalt someone against her will. (But again, even given that, He's very persuasive, and He has Eternity). Just as with the parable of the bicycle, Brother Robinson didn't take his daughter's sixty cents because he needed it to pay for the bicycle. He could have bought the bicycle with his own money, period. It was simply his daughter's opportunity to show her daddy what she wanted. God is like that. Comparatively speaking, He doesn't need our piddly little sixty cents. He just wants to know that we want what He already wants to give us in return for those sixty cents. Edited April 15, 2019 by Kenngo1969 2 Link to comment
Popular Post bsjkki Posted April 15, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 15, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, MustardSeed said: I’m a pretty positive person, my life is pretty good generally. But I’m starting to see a few things clearly and it’s disappointing to me. One thing I recognize clearly is my shortcomings as a spiritual leader in the home. My husband is not a leader. I didn’t want the role so I didn’t do enough. I have three very active children and two who are not so active. Good people, all of them . Anyway, yet another combined lesson on come follow me yesterday. I just couldn’t sit through another one. I feel beyond inadequate and hopeless. The Chaff, I suppose. Someone has to fulfill the prophesy for you all, you’re welcome I did not fulfill my calling as mother. We did all the activities, but missed the spirit. I know my original error but could not have seen it when I was 23 and setting my course. We started out Come Follow Me really great but are now struggling. We were traveling and spring break and sick and the flu etc... and got off course. We were supposed to pick it up again and do better yesterday and we still failed. I had a terrible day at church and came home exhausted and my husband came to church but left early because his chronic pain condition is flaring up with a vengeance. We were really great at doing scripture study and family prayer for many, many, years but when things fell apart for us, we've never quite gotten back the same zeal. We tried so hard and did so much and still my kids stumbled. So now, we do less. We keep trying to get back to where we were and still keep failing. I still struggle with the basics that used to be so easy and routine. But, I do know God loves me and my kids and we will just keep trying but we are much more tired and weary now. I do like this quote from conference, "It is hard to understand all the reasons why some people take another path. The best we can do in these circumstances is just to love and embrace them, pray for their well-being, and seek for the Lord’s help to know what to do and say. Sincerely rejoice with them in their successes; be their friends and look for the good in them. We should never give up on them but preserve our relationships. Never reject or misjudge them. Just love them! The parable of the prodigal son teaches us that when children come to themselves, they often desire to come home. If that happens with your dear ones, fill your hearts with compassion, run to them, fall on their neck, and kiss them, like the father of the prodigal son did." https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2019/04/11soares?lang=eng He then ended his talk with a story of a single mother who raised who kids perfectly in her trying circumstances and they're all amazing and then I felt inadequate again. I have a hard time with stories of perfect CoJCoLDS families because then I internalize and blame myself for my children's choices. I have learned this is self-destructive. I have learned that my children's choices are not "about me." I have learned to try and exorcise those thoughts from my head. They don't help me as a try to develop my own spiritual self. But, it is a battle I wage all the time. I know many who are in this mid-life mothering/spiritual crisis as our kids struggle and stray. Hang in there! Edited April 15, 2019 by bsjkki 8 Link to comment
Kenngo1969 Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, MustardSeed said: ... I did not fulfill my calling as mother. We did all the activities, but missed the spirit. I know my original error but could not have seen it when I was 23 and setting my course. Did not? You're finished? Gave it your best shot, but, "Shut 'er down, Clancy! She's pumpin' mud!"? I got news for ya. I know mothers on the other side who ain't finished. They still got the job, and they're still on the job. One of those is my grandmother. (We only "met" once before she passed away, and I was only a few weeks old at the time: I've heard all of the stories. She was (is!) quite a lady, and I'm told we have quite a bit in common. Of all of the "reunions" I'm looking forward to, that's one of the ones I anticipate the most.) My father had an interesting experience in the Temple, once. He got some information that he would not have been able to get otherwise that averted a family tragedy. Edited April 15, 2019 by Kenngo1969 1 Link to comment
Wade Englund Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 3 hours ago, BlueDreams said: We can't measure our success as parents based on the activity of our children. Correct. Otherwise, Heavenly Father may be deemed a miserable failure because of the hell-acious choices of a third of His spirit children. Besides, our children who go inactive and astray are also God's children. Thanks, -Wade Englund- 2 Link to comment
Wade Englund Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 28 minutes ago, bsjkki said: I do like this quote from conference, "It is hard to understand all the reasons why some people take another path. The best we can do in these circumstances is just to love and embrace them, pray for their well-being, and seek for the Lord’s help to know what to do and say. Sincerely rejoice with them in their successes; be their friends and look for the good in them. We should never give up on them but preserve our relationships. Never reject or misjudge them. Just love them! The parable of the prodigal son teaches us that when children come to themselves, they often desire to come home. If that happens with your dear ones, fill your hearts with compassion, run to them, fall on their neck, and kiss them, like the father of the prodigal son did." I heard the talk but this marvelous paragraph escaped my notice. I am so grateful to you for posting it. It should be made into a poster. For those interested, the talk as by: Elder Ulysses Soares, on How Can I Understand. Thanks, -Wade Englund- 2 Link to comment
Teancum Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 4 hours ago, MustardSeed said: I’m a pretty positive person, my life is pretty good generally. But I’m starting to see a few things clearly and it’s disappointing to me. One thing I recognize clearly is my shortcomings as a spiritual leader in the home. My husband is not a leader. I didn’t want the role so I didn’t do enough. I have three very active children and two who are not so active. Good people, all of them . Anyway, yet another combined lesson on come follow me yesterday. I just couldn’t sit through another one. I feel beyond inadequate and hopeless. The Chaff, I suppose. Someone has to fulfill the prophesy for you all, you’re welcome I did not fulfill my calling as mother. We did all the activities, but missed the spirit. I know my original error but could not have seen it when I was 23 and setting my course. Hello. So sorry to hear you are struggling. Its a tough road we all walk. I recommend two easy read books by Stephen Robinson. They are each about 120 pages. First one is called Believing Christ and the second is called Following Christ. They both helped me very much at a point in my life where I was feeling like you are. 4 Link to comment
Calm Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 (edited) God set it up that we most likely have our children while we are still young ourselves and haven't begun yet to figured things out or even the most important question to be asking. And a lot of parenting requires on the job training. He could have set it up differently, have women mature reproductively twenty years later so parents are older. He did not. Whatever lessons he wanted us to teach our children, apparently he didn't want us to be examples of how to get it right all the time. Apparently he sees us needing only one example of perfection, Christ, and as far as we know that man was never called upon to be an actual parent in this life so maybe not our parenting skills we should be focused on when asking the question what do we HAVE to get right? (personally I don't think we have to get anything right, this is a time of learning, preparation...we are here to figure out what we really, really, really want and few things teach us that as well as the pain of not having). Not that we should give up, just saying I think God is asking us something a bit different than we usually think. Edited April 15, 2019 by Calm 4 Link to comment
Popular Post Navidad Posted April 15, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 15, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, rchorse said: Feelings of inadequacy and hopelessness don't come from God. Nobody is a perfect parent, and whether children stay in the church or not is dependent on so many factors (especially the child's agency) that it can't be attributed to just one thing. I know many great parents who did everything right, but still had some or most of their children leave the church. I don't agree with the line of thinking that if the parents do everything right, the children will always stay faithful. If that were true, then we'd have to ask what God did wrong to lose 1/3 of his children in the pre-earth life. All that matters is that we do our best. Only we and God know if we have done that or not. I would offer another perspective: "all that matters is not that we do our best." All that matters is that we trust God for all that we need. Christianity is a relationship with our Savior, not a "to-do" list to be checked off. Edited April 15, 2019 by Navidad 6 Link to comment
Glenn101 Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 56 minutes ago, Wade Englund said: Correct. Otherwise, Heavenly Father may be deemed a miserable failure because of the hell-acious choices of a third of His spirit children. Besides, our children who go inactive and astray are also God's children. Thanks, -Wade Englund- Well put Wade. That is something my wife struggles with since all of her children have fallen away. I have pointed out to her that she never had any support from her first two husbands and that she did the best that she knew how. I also used the point that you just made. But it still is difficult for a woman who loves her children so dearly and has invested so much of her life trying to raise them the way she believes that God wanted, to see them reject those teachings. It is like losing a part of herself in each case and no amount of logic can overcome that feeling of loss. At least she has me to help comfort her. I am pretty third rate but compared to what she had before I guess I win by default. I do really like all of the positive and comforting comments that have come forth in this thread. This is one time I feel all of us are on the same page. Glenn 3 Link to comment
Wade Englund Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Calm said: God set it up that we most likely have our children while we are still young ourselves and haven't begun yet to figured things out or even the most important question to be asking. And a lot of parenting requires on the job training. He could have set it up differently, have women mature reproductively twenty years later so parents are older. He did not. Whatever lessons he wanted us to teach our children, apparently he didn't want us to be examples of how to get it right all the time. Apparently he sees us needing only one example of perfection, Christ, and as far as we know that man was never called upon to be an actual parent in this life so maybe not our parenting skills we should be focused on when asking the question what do we HAVE to get right? (personally I don't think we have to get anything right, this is a time of learning, preparation...we are here to figure out what we really, really, really want and few things teach us that as well as the pain of not having). Not that we should give up, just saying I think God is asking us something a bit different than we usually think. Beautifully said. One of the best examples parents can set for their children is to model how best to deal with disappointments and when things are not going the way we hope. Thanks, -Wade Enlgund- Edited April 15, 2019 by Wade Englund 2 Link to comment
bsjkki Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Wade Englund said: I heard the talk but this marvelous paragraph escaped my notice. I am so grateful to you for posting it. It should be made into a poster. For those interested, the talk as by: Elder Ulysses Soares, on How Can I Understand. Thanks, -Wade Englund- Thank you for providing the link...I usually don't forget but was in a rush. It is a really great quote and I will share it far and wide. So many of my friends struggle with blaming themselves for their imperfect children. 2 Link to comment
Wade Englund Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 15 minutes ago, Glenn101 said: Well put Wade. That is something my wife struggles with since all of her children have fallen away. I have pointed out to her that she never had any support from her first two husbands and that she did the best that she knew how. I also used the point that you just made. But it still is difficult for a woman who loves her children so dearly and has invested so much of her life trying to raise them the way she believes that God wanted, to see them reject those teachings. It is like losing a part of herself in each case and no amount of logic can overcome that feeling of loss. At least she has me to help comfort her. I am pretty third rate but compared to what she had before I guess I win by default. I do really like all of the positive and comforting comments that have come forth in this thread. This is one time I feel all of us are on the same page. Glenn Actually, I wouldn't want to overcome those feeling, logically or otherwise. Loving deeply, even given the pain, I see as a good thing. In some respects within a world of agency, you can't have the one without the other.After all, Jesus wept (one of my favorite scriptures). It would be disturbing were Jesus to have said, "Oh well, ho hum....just lost another million souls. To me, your wife's distress is to her credit. She isn't broken and in need of fixing. She is responding naturally as a mother should (in some ways I think the maternal protective instinct is stronger than the paternal instinct).. You likely get this given your mentioning that you are there to comfort her--which is all she likely need. Granted, such feelings can, at times, spiral out of control and become detrimental to the mother and children and spouse.. But, I don't get the sense that is the case with your wife--at least I hope it isn't. Thanks, -Wade Englund- 2 Link to comment
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