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Is President Nelson Saying What I Think He Is?

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5 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Nobody can be the reason somebody else violates the law of chastity. 

Perhaps not the reason but certainly a reason.

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12 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Not sure how that relates to chastity unless..........is that what the kids are calling it these days?

It doesn't relate to chastity, unless he's referring to pimping, and for all I know he could be including that. But I think his remarks involve other forms of bad influence, pressure, unrighteous dominion, etc.

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7 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Perhaps not the reason but certainly a reason.

We can too easily feed people's vulnerabilities just as we should be feeding their strengths and helping them grow.  There are ways imo to block people's growth.  Constant criticism, especially as a child can cripple their ability to see themselves in positive ways (I cared for a young man and sister whose mother painted horrible pictures of men as abusive and selfish, especially their father who had left them...the girl had great self esteem as she was treated as special in many ways, her mom fought for her.  But the older brother saw himself as scum who could justify his existence by rescuing women for the rest of his life and the young woman he chose...:( that he thought that she---quite abusive and manipulative---was what he deserved, lots of my tears there...he was a kind child who never managed to grow up, out of control at times...he had never been taught control was a good thing and then his mother slammed him for lacking what she was supposed to teach him....so understand sins of the parents when it comes to abuse).  I think we can diminish agency for others if people are never taught they really do have it.

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And remember that it is your responsibility to help the women in your life receive the blessings that derive from living the Lord’s law of chastity.

no it's not.  He's being a bit too misogynistic for my tastes.  If a woman who I know breaks the law of chastity that is not necessarily on the men in her life, perhaps except for the man (or woman) with whom she breaks the law with.  It is on her.   

To the OP:

14 hours ago, MorningStar said:

Is he saying if you mistreat your wife and she cheats on you, it's your fault?

No.  I don't think so.  Mostly I think he's thinking of younger folks who are dating.  If they break it together the fault is more on the man than the woman--because the man has the priesthood and it is on him to make sure the woman remains chaste.  To me it's simply an old-style misogynistic perspective which has been repeated in the Church many times.    

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7 hours ago, Maidservant said:

 

My first overwhelming swell of emotion when my husband passed away was, "Now I don't have to be lonely anymore."

I've been lonely my whole life, and I still am (despite that initial emotion), but having been married lonely and single lonely, married lonely is far, far, far, far, far worse.  (To me.)

The next morning, after I'd helped carry her feet first down the stairs from our bedroom to the waiting hearse, I felt lighter than I'd felt since I was a child. Married lonely is just awful.

Some say I started looking too quickly and remarried too soon. All I know is that I couldn't bear the thought of decades more alone: the world couldn't possibly be that unkind. That certain scene in that certain place where he wakes up and G-d says, "Look what I brung you!" had been my secret hope as the twenty plus years of caring for angry, bitter, narcissistic, sick and mean sapped my joy.

Then I found the gift He brung me. I finally woke up.

I pray you do, too.

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38 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

no it's not.  He's being a bit too misogynistic for my tastes.  If a woman who I know breaks the law of chastity that is not necessarily on the men in her life, perhaps except for the man (or woman) with whom she breaks the law with.  It is on her.   

To the OP:

No.  I don't think so.  Mostly I think he's thinking of younger folks who are dating.  If they break it together the fault is more on the man than the woman--because the man has the priesthood and it is on him to make sure the woman remains chaste.  To me it's simply an old-style misogynistic perspective which has been repeated in the Church many times.    

I hesitate to call the prophet misogynistic but am on board with the sentiment.  Problem is, especially in churches, imo, women continue to see themselves as one down so they allow themselves to be led and influenced heavy by male presence.  I see that clearly in groups of males and females of all ages even just in my own ward.  

“That” talk should be given.  You know, the “young women, you are responsible for yourselves and your own behavior.” 

There is a balance between men who abuse power and women who abdicate or deny their personal responsibility.  We are afraid to talk about the latter because it treads next to the former.  IMO , of course.  All of it.  

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15 hours ago, MorningStar said:

A friend just called and asked if I had read the Priesthood Session talk from President Nelson and then this quote jumped out at me.

Is he saying if you mistreat your wife and she cheats on you, it's your fault? Trying to remember if I've ever heard anything similar from a prophet. Years ago when a friend was being ignored by her husband, her stake president asked her, "Does your husband date you?" She said no and he answered, "If he doesn't, someone else will." She was horrified, but not that long later she ended up getting romantically involved with a co-worker (kissing). That ended up being a big wake up call for her husband and thankfully things are better now, but she still feels terrible about it.

I'm sure there are many women and men in the church who feel neglected or like their marriage is one sided. 

I thought he meant don't sleep with a woman you aren't married to and therefore keep her from being worthy of a temple recommend.  That's how I heard it.

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15 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I haven't heard this talk yet. (We get Conference this weekend!) But it sounds to me like a call not to violate the Law of Chastity. Doing so is treating women wrong.

This was my take as well.  

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36 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

I hesitate to call the prophet misogynistic but am on board with the sentiment.  Problem is, especially in churches, imo, women continue to see themselves as one down so they allow themselves to be led and influenced heavy by male presence.  I see that clearly in groups of males and females of all ages even just in my own ward.  

“That” talk should be given.  You know, the “young women, you are responsible for yourselves and your own behavior.” 

There is a balance between men who abuse power and women who abdicate or deny their personal responsibility.  We are afraid to talk about the latter because it treads next to the former.  IMO , of course.  All of it.  

I don't see him as being misogynistic in what he said to the men, any more than I see him being sexist with what he said to the women in their session (with the request for the 10 social media fast).  I think that pretty much everything he said to the men last week could easily apply to the woman too (just like it could have been said to men 6 months ago), but that men and women struggle with different things, in general, and we need to acknowledge that.  

If men are more often persuading women to have sex outside of marriage than women are, then it makes sense to me that he would bring that up and tell the men not to do it.  And while I believe that each person is responsible for their own choices and sins, I also believe that those who entice others to sin and persuade them to sin have extra penalties against them.  

I don't think we can do the devil's work in someone else's life and think there won't be consequences specifically for that.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, bluebell said:

This was my take as well.  

An old-fashioned notion: gentlemen don't ever press their advantage; be gentlemen.

They made a musical adaptation of The Rainmaker years and years ago. One of the musical numbers was a sweet reenactment of this concept. She says, "Go on. It's up to you." He joyously relates to the audience: "So. I said no! I said no!"

Thus are happy marriages made.

Quote

Jim (& Snookie):
The stars in the sky (the stars in the sky)
Are flickerin’ Low (they’re flickerin’ low)
She’s startin’ To cy (Snookie cries)
And whaddya know (and whaddya know)
With no one to help (with no one to help)
I tell myself ‘Whoa!’
Jim
Then i pick her up real tenderly’
Snookie
And he gives his elk’s tooth charm to me’
Jim
And before you know, i’m cryin’ too.
Snookie
And I say, ‘Go on, it’s up to you.’
Jim
And all alone by myself
With nobody to guide me
I decided to stop
When i saw her beside me,
And i knew that i sure
Shouldn’t go any further then, and so:
I said ‘Whoa!’
I said ‘Whoa!’


From Little Red Hat, 110 in the Shade

 

Edited by USU78
I remembered the song and looked up the lyric
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I don’t believe he meant that at all. If we pretended, for a moment, that he was speaking to the women and presumably said to them not to be the reason their husbands didn’t keep the law of chastity, we’d recognize how preposterous that is. Him suggesting that to the men would be equally preposterous.

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Calm said:

If you have a need to repent because of the way you have treated the women closest to you, begin now. And remember that it is yourresponsibility to help the women in your life receive the blessings that derive from living the Lord’s law of chastity. Never be the reason that a woman is unable to receive her temple blessings.

I can see this as talking about premarital sex. However, another possible reading is that he is talking about issues relating to pornography and self mastery (sorry, never can remember what the board allows for that topic). 

That would fall in line with his previous comments about neglect, and seems to fit what he is saying here.

A man who fails to personally live the law of chastity will deny the women in his life the opportunity to receive the blessings that are derived from having a worthy priesthood holder who abides by the law of chastity. 

Additionally, failing to live the law of chastity will prevent you from being sealed in the temple - thus being the reason that a woman is unable to receive her temple blessings despite her being completely worthy herself.

 

Edited by Amulek
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1 hour ago, Judd said:

I don’t believe he meant that at all. If we pretended, for a moment, that he was speaking to the women and presumably said to them not to be the reason their husbands didn’t keep the law of chastity, we’d recognize how preposterous that is. Him suggesting that to the men would be equally preposterous.

I don’t think either is preposterous.

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9 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Thank you for sharing.

When I was working in America, our receptionist was actually a Church member. She tried a number of times to set me up with a divorced sister in her ward. I would ask her why she thought we would be good for each other. Marsha would always say, 'Well, she'd cook and clean for you, and she's pretty to look at'.

'I can cook and clean. I've been doing it for years. And beauty is subjective and fades. So why do you think we'd be good for each other?'

And Marsha would always look at me blankly. I honestly believe that her entire 'interface' with her husband probably consisted of cooking and cleaning for him and being pretty to look at. And his entire interface with her probably consisted of depositing his paycheque into their joint account (he was an oil worker so made a good bit of money), eating her food, wearing clean clothes, and telling her that she looked pretty.

And to be honest, I'm OK with that if it worked for them. But it's not going to work for me. I absolutely detest having to do my own washing. I'd rather clean 20 toilets than repeat, as I will this evening and tomorrow, the whole pretreat -- wash -- hang out to dry -- bring in -- iron -- fold or hang up -- put away cycle.

But I simply cannot imagine waking up every morning next to a complete stranger.

God bless you!

Get a good dryer and clothes you do not have to iron.

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2 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

I hesitate to call the prophet misogynistic but am on board with the sentiment.  Problem is, especially in churches, imo, women continue to see themselves as one down so they allow themselves to be led and influenced heavy by male presence.  I see that clearly in groups of males and females of all ages even just in my own ward.  

“That” talk should be given.  You know, the “young women, you are responsible for yourselves and your own behavior.” 

There is a balance between men who abuse power and women who abdicate or deny their personal responsibility.  We are afraid to talk about the latter because it treads next to the former.  IMO , of course.  All of it.  

I think he's essentially saying "if you're daughters, sisters, cousins etc that are women break the law it's part on you."  

He goes on:

Quote

Brethren, we all need to repent. We need to get up off the couch, put down the remote, and wake up from our spiritual slumber. It is time to put on the full armor of God so we can engage in the most important work on earth. It is time to “thrust in [our] sickles, and reap with all [our] might, mind, and strength.”17 The forces of evil have never raged more forcefully than they do today. As servants of the Lord, we cannot be asleep while this battle rages.

Your family needs your leadership and love. Your quorum and those in your ward or branch need your strength. And all who meet you need to know what a true disciple of the Lord looks like and acts like.

My dear brethren, you were chosen by our Father to come to earth at this crucial time because of your premortal spiritual valor. You are among the finest, most valiant men who have ever come to the earth. Satan knows who you are and who you were premortally, and he understands the work that must be done before the Savior returns. And after millennia of practicing his cunning arts, the adversary is experienced and incorrigible.

Gratefully, the priesthood we hold is far stronger than are the wiles of the adversary. I plead with you to be the men and young men the Lord needs you to be. Make your focus on daily repentance so integral to your life that you can exercise the priesthood with greater power than ever before. This is the only way you will keep yourself and your family spiritually safe in the challenging days ahead.

If he's truly prophetic and knows what's coming and knows the failures of the whole world, then I suppose it'll all prove interesting.  What lay ahead, he suggests, will spiritually destroy everyone and their families except those who hold the priesthood, exercise it, thrusting in their sickles with all of their might, mind and strength.  

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2 hours ago, Judd said:

I don’t believe he meant that at all. If we pretended, for a moment, that he was speaking to the women and presumably said to them not to be the reason their husbands didn’t keep the law of chastity, we’d recognize how preposterous that is. Him suggesting that to the men would be equally preposterous.

The shocking part to me is when wives tell their friends and neighbors that their husbands are hooked on porn, (these are people in my old neighborhood) but if it helps their husbands or wives heal or fix the problem I guess being open is the way. Not necessarily directing this to your post, but it made me think of the cheating of looking at porn and in my mind, making these men's wives feel like they must not be attractive or sexy enough. 

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Posted (edited)

 “In the last days . . . men shall be . . . without natural affection” (II Timothy 3:1–3)

stergeo (“natural affection”) natural love that members of the same family have for each other. 

 

I suppose everyone is supposed to"be the change they want to see in the world" and all that... those who were abused as children, who grew up without natural love - turn into crazy messed up marriages - usually with someone else from a similar background.  The blame game can go back generations (woo hoo family history!!)  There are diseases - sickness, that pollute the word "love" with the most horrible things - these diseases do not go away, they last lifetimes, generation after generation after generation.  

Refined in the fire?  It does not refine. It just infects, and makes others sick with it too.  

But, you know - I am sure a loving God in heaven has it all under control, we were all born into the family that was best for us. we were chosen to come forth at this time in this place - little chidlren were supposed to be abused, were born into it based on a loving heavenly father's plan.  all will be made well in the eternities.... 

Never be the reason that a woman is unable to receive her temple blessings.

Bwa ha ha . - cute - to tell someone with a disease "don't be the reason someone else gets aids", "don't be the reason someone else gets cancer" ... empty words - no support groups, no balm in Gilead, just empty empty words.

Edited by changed

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29 minutes ago, changed said:

 “In the last days . . . men shall be . . . without natural affection” (II Timothy 3:1–3)

stergeo (“natural affection”) natural love that members of the same family have for each other. 

 

I suppose everyone is supposed to"be the change they want to see in the world" and all that... those who were abused as children, who grew up without natural love - turn into crazy messed up marriages - usually with someone else from a similar background.  The blame game can go back generations (woo hoo family history!!)  There are diseases - sickness, that pollute the word "love" with the most horrible things - these diseases do not go away, they last lifetimes, generation after generation after generation.  

Refined in the fire?  It does not refine. It just infects, and makes others sick with it too.  

But, you know - I am sure a loving God in heaven has it all under control, we were all born into the family that was best for us. we were chosen to come forth at this time in this place - little chidlren were supposed to be abused, were born into it based on a loving heavenly father's plan.  all will be made well in the eternities.... 

Never be the reason that a woman is unable to receive her temple blessings.

Bwa ha ha . - cute - to tell someone with a disease "don't be the reason someone else gets aids", "don't be the reason someone else gets cancer" ... empty words - no support groups, no balm in Gilead, just empty empty words.

Congrats on discovering the world is a horrible place. Surprised it took this long. Not sure why you are complaining about people trying to fix it but maybe it is a generational thing you learned from your parents that is not your fault.

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49 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Congrats on discovering the world is a horrible place. Surprised it took this long. Not sure why you are complaining about people trying to fix it but maybe it is a generational thing you learned from your parents that is not your fault.

Discovering the why, how and when of my dysfunction helps me first, understand the degree of my culpability, and second, find how best to break the cycle.  Forgiveness for those who were also complicit if not mostly responsible comes after that.

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7 hours ago, USU78 said:

The next morning, after I'd helped carry her feet first down the stairs from our bedroom to the waiting hearse, I felt lighter than I'd felt since I was a child. Married lonely is just awful.

Some say I started looking too quickly and remarried too soon. All I know is that I couldn't bear the thought of decades more alone: the world couldn't possibly be that unkind. That certain scene in that certain place where he wakes up and G-d says, "Look what I brung you!" had been my secret hope as the twenty plus years of caring for angry, bitter, narcissistic, sick and mean sapped my joy.

Then I found the gift He brung me. I finally woke up.

I pray you do, too.

😕

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6 hours ago, bluebell said:

I thought he meant don't sleep with a woman you aren't married to and therefore keep her from being worthy of a temple recommend.  That's how I heard it.

Me too!

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2 hours ago, changed said:

 “In the last days . . . men shall be . . . without natural affection” (II Timothy 3:1–3)

stergeo (“natural affection”) natural love that members of the same family have for each other. 

 

I suppose everyone is supposed to"be the change they want to see in the world" and all that... those who were abused as children, who grew up without natural love - turn into crazy messed up marriages - usually with someone else from a similar background.  The blame game can go back generations (woo hoo family history!!)  There are diseases - sickness, that pollute the word "love" with the most horrible things - these diseases do not go away, they last lifetimes, generation after generation after generation.  

Refined in the fire?  It does not refine. It just infects, and makes others sick with it too.  

But, you know - I am sure a loving God in heaven has it all under control, we were all born into the family that was best for us. we were chosen to come forth at this time in this place - little chidlren were supposed to be abused, were born into it based on a loving heavenly father's plan.  all will be made well in the eternities.... 

Never be the reason that a woman is unable to receive her temple blessings.

Bwa ha ha . - cute - to tell someone with a disease "don't be the reason someone else gets aids", "don't be the reason someone else gets cancer" ... empty words - no support groups, no balm in Gilead, just empty empty words.

Those people have the power and the anecdote - You can be the one to break the cycle of disfunction and abuse, and the gospel has the empowering recipe.   

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5 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Get a good dryer and clothes you do not have to iron.

Writes an American ...

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