Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
MustardSeed

What is being protested at BYU?

Recommended Posts

I'm hearing that a few hundred people turned out although the pictures I've seen looked much smaller. Most of the press photos I've seen are tightly cropped making it hard to know how many people were there. It sounds about on par with the anti-Cheney protests from 2007.

 

protest_2019-Apr-12.jpg

Share this post


Link to post

https://www.ksl.com/article/46530636/byu-students-plan-sit-in-to-protest-honor-code-after-viral-instagram-account-petition-seek-reform  This link has a 20 minute long video look at the protest with various interviews

https://www.sltrib.com/news/education/2019/04/12/honor-code-protest-led/

"An estimated 500 protesters have gathered at a noon rally at Brigham Young University to oppose how the school’s Honor Code Office investigates and disciplines students, chanting, “Hey hey, ho ho, bring honor to the HCO.”

Share this post


Link to post
On 4/11/2019 at 1:36 PM, bsjkki said:

I think those whose kids do not attend BYU, should get a tithing deduction. 😉

Why do my tithing dollars supplement other students education when I am paying elsewhere. 😉

 

I realize this was said tongue-in-cheek, but I would be very surprised if the church did not have a return on investment calculator for BYU somewhere. That is, I'm betting church leaders have compared the future faithfulness and tithing payments of BYU students vs non-BYU students and decided its a good investment. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, clarkgoble said:

Most of the press photos I've seen are tightly cropped making it hard to know how many people were there. I

Flashback to 95 and photos in front of Kremlin that the press perfectly cropped so you couldn't see the end of the crowd so it appeared to go on.  Husband was there and said the numbers  reported by Communist party as 100,000s iirc and by press including CNN as 10,000s; he reported they would have been lucky if it was over a thousand.  They had the huge square, but the organizers had everyone, even bystanders they could talk into it, to come in close to pack in tight as if too many to fit comfortable.  He was so disgusted to see CNN and other Western news organizations go along with it and report the false numbers.  Husband said if the picture was just a bit wider it would have shown the crowd was so small.  Organizers must have been very disappointed as they had been promoting it big, but they did not let low turnout alter their story of Communism's great comeback.

 

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, clarkgoble said:

Here's the KSL one. Have a hard time believing it's 500 people.

 

 

I agree 500 seems like a stretch based on the pictures I’ve seen.

Share this post


Link to post
30 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

I agree 500 seems like a stretch based on the pictures I’ve seen.

Even if it is, this seems to be a pretty small sub-group. 33,500 students at BYU. ~1.5% of the student body?

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, SouthernMo said:

Even if it is, this seems to be a pretty small sub-group. 33,500 students at BYU. ~1.5% of the student body?

Yes, but I did wonder if current students, due to the honor code, would not want to participate. Hard to know either way but people seem to be more willing to provide anonymous stories. It takes a lot more bravery to publicly attend an event and be an activist. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Yes, but I did wonder if current students, due to the honor code, would not want to participate. Hard to know either way but people seem to be more willing to provide anonymous stories. It takes a lot more bravery to publicly attend an event and be an activist. 

There's nothing in the honor code against doing something like this unless they were asked to leave and didn't. Which BYU didn't do.

 

I should note that after talking to some people on Twitter that there are multiple groups. One, Restore Honor, want to keep the code and enforcement but change how the honor code office does things allowing more room for repentance rather than quick expulsion. The other which includes that BCC post and the petition clearly wants to eliminate all enforcement.

25 minutes ago, SouthernMo said:

Even if it is, this seems to be a pretty small sub-group. 33,500 students at BYU. ~1.5% of the student body?

And that assumes all the people there are students.

 

Edited by clarkgoble
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)

This story is spreading. Picked up by the New York Times. In PR wars it’s not the size of the crowd but the attention/press they get that matters. I study news cycles and how stories spread. A real fascinating one to study is the beginnings of the Trump/Russia narrative. The rise of Barrack Obama too. We are all being manipulated by the media. The Covington kids and the Kavanaugh hearings. Really fascinating. The Joe Biden handsy stories too. Those had been around for years and now suddenly, it’s making headlines in major stories. Who is trying to take Biden out before he announces? Amy Klobuchar was also hit with friendly fire stories about being a mean boss. 

Sad to say but BYU being portrayed as “mean” will make it to print. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/04/12/us/byu-honor-code.amp.html

“Ms. Draughon, 24, kept her concerns about the honor code quiet until she had left school, but now her Honor Code Storiesaccount on Instagram has attracted more than 34,000 followers and generated nearly 200 tales of punishment meted out by the office charged with enforcing the code. 

“Nobody talks about the Honor Code Office on campus because they’re terrified,” Ms. Draughon said. “The code has been weaponized. That’s not the culture you need at a religious university.”

Here is the AP story that will get picked by local papers. https://www.apnews.com/fd6bef12f7a046f48b848b8508a793e8

Edited by bsjkki

Share this post


Link to post
13 minutes ago, clarkgoble said:

There's nothing in the honor code against doing something like this unless they were asked to leave and didn't. Which BYU didn't do.

 

I should note that after talking to some people on Twitter that there are multiple groups. One, Restore Honor, want to keep the code and enforcement but change how the honor code office does things allowing more room for repentance rather than quick expulsion. The other which includes that BCC post and the petition clearly wants to eliminate all enforcement.

And that assumes all the people there are students.

 

There are a lot of former students at the rally.

Share this post


Link to post
22 minutes ago, clarkgoble said:

 

42 minutes ago, SouthernMo said:

Even if it is, this seems to be a pretty small sub-group. 33,500 students at BYU. ~1.5% of the student body?

And that assumes all the people there are students.

 

 

It appears to be a bigger movement than I thought. From BCC:

“Since the code was theoretically created by the students, then theoretically the students should have a say in how it is enforced and when and how it is modified. I have a hard time believing that between 1992 (when I graduated) and now, anything approaching a majority of students felt that the code should become more stringent; yet it has. Given that the current petition has over 16,000 signatures (despite a stated fear that signing them will put them in the cross-hairs of the HCO), the university either needs to listen up or quit saying the students create the code.”

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)

Did they vet the signatures at all to ensure they are actual people and they actually signed it?

Is there a way to view these signatures?

Edited by Calm

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, Calm said:

Did they vet the signatures at all to ensure they are actual people and they actually signed it?

No idea. Not even sure who has the list and what process you’d want them to validate it with. 

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, SouthernMo said:

No idea. Not even sure who has the list and what process you’d want them to validate it with. 

I believe it is on change.org  

If a petition can't be validated in some way...contacting email addresses to see if valid if online at least (though fake addresses can be created)....then it is pulling numbers out of the air and has no significance, imo.

Share this post


Link to post

I don't understand. I've made my views on yBu known over the years. I don't care for the place and don't much respect the discipline office.

But if my child goes there promising to abide by the school's code of conduct, including the penalties prescribed for non-compliance, my kid better comply and not whine about it.

It's a matter of contract and a matter of honor.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
59 minutes ago, SouthernMo said:

It appears to be a bigger movement than I thought. From BCC:

“Since the code was theoretically created by the students, then theoretically the students should have a say in how it is enforced and when and how it is modified. I have a hard time believing that between 1992 (when I graduated) and now, anything approaching a majority of students felt that the code should become more stringent; yet it has. Given that the current petition has over 16,000 signatures (despite a stated fear that signing them will put them in the cross-hairs of the HCO), the university either needs to listen up or quit saying the students create the code.”

This is one of many problems with that post. First off it confuses enforcement with the code. The argument isn't that the code's become more strict (it demonstrably hasn't - indeed it was heavily liberalized while I was at BYU - and was done with student involvement). Rather it's that enforcement has become more strict

I'm fine with changing some of the sillier things such as the beard ban, of course. But that's not what I think the most vehement folks are really after (as the BCC post makes clear)

1 hour ago, bsjkki said:

There are a lot of former students at the rally.

Right, but then the figure to compare isn't the current student population. There's a lot of distortion (IMO) in the press.

30 minutes ago, Calm said:

Did they vet the signatures at all to ensure they are actual people and they actually signed it?

Is there a way to view these signatures?

It's done electronically and all you need is a name and email. Presumably, especially given it's prominence in news stories and social media, many and likely most aren't students.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, clarkgoble said:

Right, but then the figure to compare isn't the current student population. There's a lot of distortion (IMO) in the press.

There usually is.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, Calm said:

Did they vet the signatures at all to ensure they are actual people and they actually signed it?

Is there a way to view these signatures?

I signed the petition, as far as I know, I'm real. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
42 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I signed the petition, as far as I know, I'm real. ;)

They may be all real for all we know.  The problem is we can't know, so how to judge?

 

Share this post


Link to post
12 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I signed the petition, as far as I know, I'm real. ;)

Which makes me wonder how many were actual students.

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, TheRedHen said:

Why didn't BYU run a joint program with their own sister school?

Because that would be against the honor code 😉 

19 minutes ago, TheRedHen said:

Second, I've never been able to figure out why BYU has athletic programs. 

As with any institution, it's usually about the money.

 

Edited by pogi

Share this post


Link to post
On 4/11/2019 at 8:42 AM, LoudmouthMormon said:

Heh.  I surprised myself with how strongly I reacted against this statement, and everything inherent that went along with it.   I don't mean to pick on you MS, and I'm sorry you had to go through all that in your story.  But these thoughts all went through my mind:

- Being married to a bishop doesn't make you a good person.
- You don't know if someone's kids are righteous, you just know when they appear righteous.
- Taking stock of all the skeletons I've learned about from various bishops and their families.  On top of the plain old breaking the law of chastity stuff, I have second- or third-hand accounts of all the following: Suicide attempts, substance abuse, child abuse, divorce, and felony convictions.

Yeah.  A phrase like "married to a bishop and all her kids appear righteous" tells me absolutely nothing about a person.  

Do you mean to say bishops and their families are human just like the rest of us? No, say it ain't so!
Someone once told me any fool could be a bishop. I proved it to be true. :)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, TheRedHen said:

I guess there's a point to your question but I can't guess what it is.

Whose and what question?  Helps to quote.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, TheRedHen said:

It’s really not that hard to look at the thread and see whose question I referred to.

Normally I would assume it followed your last post, but neither post that does makes sense as framing as a question.

If you mean the opening post, given there are almost four pages of posts, some with questions, I would think most might be confused especially if they had been reading the thread over the several days it has existed.  And since you already had a post, it isn't intuitive imo that you are only now responding to the OP's question.

It just makes it easier to quote for people to follow the post when it is responding to something not immediately above it especially now the "next topic" link at bottom of the thread does not identify what that thread is, so at times there is nothing on the screen showing what thread one is in.

I forget at times and people ask me to quote so they can follow the conversation better.  I don't see it as much of a hassle and it means they are interested.

Edited by Calm
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...