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TheRedHen

Different Endowment Sessions

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I wonder if the Church would consider creating 2 separate types of endowment sessions.  One for living endowments and one for the dead.  It makes sense to have the full 95 minute session for the living, but why not cut out a bunch of the repetition for those who have been through.  Maybe you have to pass a competency test to go to the shorter session, but it could cut the time in half and maybe more people would go.  I'm sure some go and actually believe that 'every time I go to the temple I learn something new', but I certainly don't.  I've had the whole thing memorized for 25 years  I could even take you through the old Samurai parts of the session if you like.  Thoughts?

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I don't think worship is intended to be efficient.  Its not about the numbers its about our devotion and service.  

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1 hour ago, TheRedHen said:

I wonder if the Church would consider creating 2 separate types of endowment sessions.  One for living endowments and one for the dead.  It makes sense to have the full 95 minute session for the living, but why not cut out a bunch of the repetition for those who have been through.  Maybe you have to pass a competency test to go to the shorter session, but it could cut the time in half and maybe more people would go.  I'm sure some go and actually believe that 'every time I go to the temple I learn something new', but I certainly don't.  I've had the whole thing memorized for 25 years  I could even take you through the old Samurai parts of the session if you like.  Thoughts?

I invite you to consider that the things we can learn in the temple under the direction of the Spirit most often are unrelated to the dialogue of the endowment

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6 minutes ago, let’s roll said:

I invite you to consider that the things we can learn in the temple under the direction of the Spirit most often are unrelated to the dialogue of the endowment

Maybe.  That inspiration can come in 45 minutes instead of 90 though can't it?

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6 hours ago, TheRedHen said:

......................... I could even take you through the old Samurai parts of the session if you like.  Thoughts?

The "old Samurai parts"?  Are you cleverly referring to the penalties?  You do realize that they are still implied in every oath?  They are often left unstated in the Bible and in ordinary speech on the street.  They are present even when they are absent.

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15 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

The "old Samurai parts"?  Are you cleverly referring to the penalties?  You do realize that they are still implied in every oath?  They are often left unstated in the Bible and in ordinary speech on the street.  They are present even when they are absent.

I don't know how clever my reference was.  I was simply stating that I can go through the entire ceremony word for word.  The point is that it's rote.  I could personally get just as much out of the ceremony if the repetitive parts were removed.

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On 4/10/2019 at 9:55 PM, MustardSeed said:

Darlin, inspiration can come in five seconds.  No CFR.  Just personal experience.  The temple sessions are long and sometimes tiring, I get it.  That's both good AND hard.  For some of us.  I'll recommend you unfold the Good part of that - and count the blessings that come from your devoted service. :)

I'm not gay, so the 'darlin' salutation is not necessary.

You will need to be more respectful to remain here. 

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23 hours ago, TheRedHen said:

I wonder if the Church would consider creating 2 separate types of endowment sessions.  One for living endowments and one for the dead.  It makes sense to have the full 95 minute session for the living, but why not cut out a bunch of the repetition for those who have been through.  Maybe you have to pass a competency test to go to the shorter session, but it could cut the time in half and maybe more people would go.  I'm sure some go and actually believe that 'every time I go to the temple I learn something new', but I certainly don't.  I've had the whole thing memorized for 25 years  I could even take you through the old Samurai parts of the session if you like.  Thoughts?

They just recently cut the endowment down by several minutes.  You want it shorter?  Actually, I think that is certainly doable, and may in fact be done once we enter the Millennium, because time will be of the essence.  Once life has stabilized after recovery from the tribulation has occurred, many people will probably be spending most of their daily time in the temple getting proxy work completed from eras which we have no records for (to be delivered to us directly from Heaven's records).  Just my opinion.

But at the present time, while the Endowment's primary purpose is the work for the dead, a strong secondary consideration is spiritual uplift of the patrons.  Like you, I have had it memorized for a long time (including the "Samurai" parts, lol), although in my case it's more like 45 years.  I'm also now a temple ordinance worker, so I get to participate at many different levels.  But I don't think that cutting it down significantly will serve the patrons as much as you think.  There comes a point when something is cut down to less than the optimum.  It would be like cutting down Sunday church attendance to just one hour from the current two.  I think that would be taking it too far.  And the current length of the endowment seems to be about ideal now, at least to me, and for the times in question.  And not everyone attending has as much experience at it as you and I do.

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9 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

They just recently cut the endowment down by several minutes.  You want it shorter?  Actually, I think that is certainly doable, and may in fact be done once we enter the Millennium, because time will be of the essence.  Once life has stabilized after recovery from the tribulation has occurred, many people will probably be spending most of their daily time in the temple getting proxy work completed from eras which we have no records for (to be delivered to us directly from Heaven's records).  Just my opinion.

But at the present time, while the Endowment's primary purpose is the work for the dead, a strong secondary consideration is spiritual uplift of the patrons.  Like you, I have had it memorized for a long time (including the "Samurai" parts, lol), although in my case it's more like 45 years.  I'm also now a temple ordinance worker, so I get to participate at many different levels.  But I don't think that cutting it down significantly will serve the patrons as much as you think.  There comes a point when something is cut down to less than the optimum.  It would be like cutting down Sunday church attendance to just one hour from the current two.  I think that would be taking it too far.  And the current length of the endowment seems to be about ideal now, at least to me, and for the times in question.  And not everyone attending has as much experience at it as you and I do.

I don't disagree.  I guess my point was that there are some who get something out of the repetition and some who don't.  Anyway, any insight as to whether they'll bring back a real movie?  I honestly don't mind the current format.  For some reason the character of Lucifer is overly dramatic.

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2 hours ago, TheRedHen said:

I'm not gay, so the 'darlin' salutation is not necessary.

Sorry, southern slang for friend .  I just returned from a two week jaunt in the deep rebel south.  

I’m not gay either for that matter 😂

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, TheRedHen said:

I don't know how clever my reference was.  I was simply stating that I can go through the entire ceremony word for word.  The point is that it's rote.  I could personally get just as much out of the ceremony if the repetitive parts were removed.

 

Are there repetitive elements of the temple liturgy which trigger involuntary responses?  Say the way a repeated Buddhist mantra (with or without a mandala) triggers certain meditative states?  How about the deep repetitive chanting of Tibetan monks, sometimes with the occasional ringing of golden bowls, and the sound of deep long-horns?  Have you ever experienced any deep "triggers" in the sights and sounds of the endowment?

I ask that in light of recent studies on ASMR (Autonomous Sensory Meridian Response) as a feature of repetitive sights and sounds.  Could the LDS endowment trigger ASMR?  Jamie Lauren Keiles, “How A.S.M.R. Became a Sensation,” New York Times Magazine, April 4, 2019, online at   https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/04/magazine/how-asmr-videos-became-a-sensation-youtube.html .

Quote

The most rigorous studies use f.M.R.I. to map the activity of blood flow in the brain as participants report feeling the tingles. Outcomes have suggested, in very small samples, that A.S.M.R. might have something to do with socially bonding “affiliative behaviors,” known to release feel-good hormones like oxytocin.

 

Quote

Triggers that stimulate ASMR in individuals may actually be activating the biological pathways of inter-personal bonding and affiliative behaviors.  Examples of inter-personal bonding include parent and infant bonding, family member bonding, friendship bonding, and romantic partner bonding.

ASMR and bonding behaviors share similar triggers like gentle touches and soft voices between individuals that trust each other, and also have similar responses like feeling comforted, feeling relaxed, and feeling secure.

Some of the basic biology of bonding is well established and this involves specific behaviors which stimulate the release of endorphins, dopamine, oxytocin, and serotonin.  These bonding behaviors and molecules may provide a good explanation for most of the triggers and responses associated with ASMR.  https://asmruniversity.com/origin-theory-of-asmr/ .

 

Edited by Robert F. Smith

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On 4/11/2019 at 7:56 PM, Robert F. Smith said:

 

Are there repetitive elements of the temple liturgy which trigger involuntary responses?  Say the way a repeated Buddhist mantra (with or without a mandala) triggers certain meditative states?  How about the deep repetitive chanting of Tibetan monks, sometimes with the occasional ringing of golden bowls, and the sound of deep long-horns?  Have you ever experienced any deep "triggers" in the sights and sounds of the endowment?

I ask that in light of recent studies on ASMR (Autonomous Sensory Meridian Response) as a feature of repetitive sights and sounds.  Could the LDS endowment trigger ASMR?  Jamie Lauren Keiles, “How A.S.M.R. Became a Sensation,” New York Times Magazine, April 4, 2019, online at   https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/04/magazine/how-asmr-videos-became-a-sensation-youtube.html .

 

 

If I restate your question to 'can the endowment program someone?' it's easier to answer.  Some people thrive on habit and repetition.  If that's how they get by I think that's fine, but it's definitely a lower form of understanding.  I prefer to think through the process.  I guess that's why the long endowment sessions bore me.  At some stage I'll be one of the old guys who falls asleep but can still make the signs without skipping a beat.

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1 hour ago, TheRedHen said:

If I restate your question to 'can the endowment program someone?' it's easier to answer.  Some people thrive on habit and repetition.  If that's how they get by I think that's fine, but it's definitely a lower form of understanding.  I prefer to think through the process.  I guess that's why the long endowment sessions bore me.  At some stage I'll be one of the old guys who falls asleep but can still make the signs without skipping a beat.

This brings back memories of sitting with my mother-in-law during an endowment session and she appeared to sleep through the whole thing until time to do the signs etc. She was a weekly temple attender so I guess she didn't need to worry about all of it, just the main part I guess. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, TheRedHen said:

If I restate your question to 'can the endowment program someone?' it's easier to answer.  Some people thrive on habit and repetition.  If that's how they get by I think that's fine, but it's definitely a lower form of understanding.  I prefer to think through the process.  I guess that's why the long endowment sessions bore me.  At some stage I'll be one of the old guys who falls asleep but can still make the signs without skipping a beat.

The edit system here wouldn't allow me to make my whole point, which had to do with things which we insert with our minds -- such as the no longer used Hebrew phrase now replaced by the English translation (which I now hear in my mind at the proper point).  Are you the sort of person who could shift to a meditative state in the midst of all that?

Edited by Robert F. Smith

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