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Thinking

Endowment Houses

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Posted (edited)

Endowment houses were used in Nauvoo and in Salt Lake City to provide a place where endowments could be done prior to the completion of the temple. Would the Church leaders ever consider building endowment houses in other parts of the world where a temple was not yet constructed?

Edited by Thinking
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There was a building called an endowment house in Spring City, Utah that was built by Orson Hyde. The building is still standing at 85 West 300 South. 
242573177_Endowment_House_Spring_City_Utah.jpg.c73f52643e3bf6e84d4ca5fa2e923ca2.jpg

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There is some question as to what differentiates an endowment house from a temple since both have endowments and sealings.

Some have said having a holy of holies is the difference, which leads to whether second anointings can be performed there.

Perhaps it has to do with work for the dead.  Did endowment houses have oxen fonts?

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I read recently that prophets considered temple boats, and temple airplanes at various times when discussing how to get ordinances everywhere.   These days, if you can build an endowment house, you can build a temple (and the act of customizing the temple decoration to the area in which is situated, helps integrate it into the community in a way that simply internally renovating an existing building would be hard pressed to do.

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4 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Some have said having a holy of holies is the difference

I didn't think that all temples have holy of holies. 

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1 hour ago, pogi said:

I didn't think that all temples have holy of holies. 

No, but many have either a sealing room or a President's office that did double duty.  Nauvoo was like that.  But yes, the Pioneer era ones all had them I believe.

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On 4/9/2019 at 12:12 PM, Thinking said:

Endowment houses were used in Nauvoo and in Salt Lake City to provide a place where endowments could be done prior to the completion of the temple. Would the Church leaders ever consider building endowment houses in other parts of the world where a temple was not yet constructed?

If the Church was impoverished I suppose smaller Endowment Houses could be built to perform ordinances, but of course the Church is not impoverished.  Funding is never the reason the Church does not build more temples.  Like any enterprise the Temple Committee looks at supply and demand.  As an aside, I went to the Bountiful Temple yesterday and attended the 4:30 Endowment Session.  There were all of 6 men and 14 women in attendance.  I use that as a single example but I attend at least weekly at different times and at different temples.  I detect a significant lack of interest on the part of the saints with most sessions under attended.  I'm surprised the Brethren think Utah needs more temples given the lack of interest.

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1 hour ago, TheRedHen said:

If the Church was impoverished I suppose smaller Endowment Houses could be built to perform ordinances, but of course the Church is not impoverished.  Funding is never the reason the Church does not build more temples.  Like any enterprise the Temple Committee looks at supply and demand.  As an aside, I went to the Bountiful Temple yesterday and attended the 4:30 Endowment Session.  There were all of 6 men and 14 women in attendance.  I use that as a single example but I attend at least weekly at different times and at different temples.  I detect a significant lack of interest on the part of the saints with most sessions under attended.  I'm surprised the Brethren think Utah needs more temples given the lack of interest.

I am baffled every conference I hear about another Utah Temple, like a 20 minute drive is too much?! What's wrong with Ireland or Mongolia getting a Temple😮

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23 hours ago, pogi said:

I didn't think that all temples have holy of holies. 

I believe they don't.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/9/2019 at 12:12 PM, Thinking said:

Endowment houses were used in Nauvoo and in Salt Lake City to provide a place where endowments could be done prior to the completion of the temple. Would the Church leaders ever consider building endowment houses in other parts of the world where a temple was not yet constructed?

Arguably dual use building such as Hinkley did with the Halifax, NS temple are endowment houses.

Edit 1: I may be wrong and they may have made that only a full time temple after announcing it as dual use -- it was built after I left Nova Scotia. I'm checking on that now.

Edit 2: I was confused. It was only open initially on weekends but never was dual use.

Edited by clarkgoble

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26 minutes ago, Duncan said:

I am baffled every conference I hear about another Utah Temple, like a 20 minute drive is too much?! What's wrong with Ireland or Mongolia getting a Temple😮

Haha - no kidding.  I live in Davis County and it's 20 minutes to Bountiful or 20 minutes to Ogden.  The Layton Temple will cut my drive by about half - not sure what I'm going to do with that extra 10 minutes.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, TheRedHen said:

Haha - no kidding.  I live in Davis County and it's 20 minutes to Bountiful or 20 minutes to Ogden.  The Layton Temple will cut my drive by about half - not sure what I'm going to do with that extra 10 minutes.

Typically it has to do with how much the temple is being used. So Provo has two temples for instance. It's really not about travel time. The old Provo temple typically had a pretty long wait to get thorough a session making it difficult for those with kids. So when the Tabernacle burnt down they decided to make it an other temple both to preserve the building (the brick facade survived) but also because the existing temple was overloaded.

Edited by clarkgoble
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29 minutes ago, Duncan said:

I am baffled every conference I hear about another Utah Temple, like a 20 minute drive is too much?! What's wrong with Ireland or Mongolia getting a Temple😮

Temples provide opportunities to serve not only to patrons, but to ordinance workers as well.  Can Ireland and Mongolia staff 20 shifts a week?  How many ordinances would be performed in temples in those locations as compared to a temple in Utah?

There’s a balance to be struck between getting work done for those on the other side of the veil and making temple ordinances more easily available to those on this side of the veil.

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10 minutes ago, clarkgoble said:

Typically it has to do with how much the temple is being used. So Provo has two temples for instance. It's really not about travel time. The old Provo temple typically had a pretty long wait to get thorough a session making it difficult for those with kids. So when the Tabernacle burnt down they decided to make it an other temple both to preserve the building (the brick facade survived) but also because the existing temple was overloaded.

You're right - I have heard a lot about upping our game with respect to temple attendance.  I suspect that's a function of the temples not being at capacity.  The first time I went in 2019 I was shocked at how crowded the sessions were.  I guess everyone wanted to see the new changes and then went back to normal.

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On 4/9/2019 at 2:12 PM, Thinking said:

Endowment houses were used in Nauvoo and in Salt Lake City to provide a place where endowments could be done prior to the completion of the temple. Would the Church leaders ever consider building endowment houses in other parts of the world where a temple was not yet constructed?

Is there a reason we can't use chapel baptismal fonts for both the living and the dead?  A font on oxen is nice but not necessary.

 

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1 hour ago, let’s roll said:

Temples provide opportunities to serve not only to patrons, but to ordinance workers as well.  Can Ireland and Mongolia staff 20 shifts a week?  How many ordinances would be performed in temples in those locations as compared to a temple in Utah?

There’s a balance to be struck between getting work done for those on the other side of the veil and making temple ordinances more easily available to those on this side of the veil.

we don't need to compare Temple usage, maybe Ireland and Mongolia don't need 20 shifts per week but maybe half that? Where I live we have a small stake and an even smaller district and we are getting a Temple, how, is still gobsmacking but I wonder how much it'll be used

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2 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

I believe they don't.

All temples have a room designated for use as a Holy of Holies. When in doubt, ask a member of the temple presidency or even the temple recorder in any temple and they will confirm such.

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1 hour ago, TheRedHen said:

I suspect that's a function of the temples not being at capacity

A lot might have to do with encouraging people into going at more inconvenient times.  I have a friend who goes specifically on a certain morning at a certain time because there is hardly anyone there because she doesn't like the crowds there on the weekends and evenings. If someone only thinks of weekend attendance, they might imagine there is less reason to go especially if they don't like crowds.

I suspect they determine need for new temples based on usage during the times most members with families or jobs have available, rather than overall population which might weight workday hours heavier given retirees could likely go at that time if they thought about it and didn't stick to habits of earlier years.

Temples that require longer trips are going to be deemed at capacity based on weekend or holiday attendance, I bet, since people must look to having two days or more available for travel and then participation.  If they travel in groups to lower costs, then they need to take the usual holidays rather than scheduling their off work times independent of everyone else (and thus being able to choose less in demand times).

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15 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

All temples have a room designated for use as a Holy of Holies.

This is correct. In our temple, it is one of the sealing rooms, which has the extra equipment located behind a curtain.

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4 minutes ago, Calm said:

Temples that require longer trips are going to be deemed at capacity based on weekend or holiday attendance, I bet, since people must look to having two days or more available for travel and then participation.

This is exactly right. We actually have added extra sessions to our schedule for Good Friday. It's without doubt our busiest day of the year.

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49 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

All temples have a room designated for use as a Holy of Holies. When in doubt, ask a member of the temple presidency or even the temple recorder in any temple and they will confirm such.

Interesting.

I shall.

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1 hour ago, Storm Rider said:

All temples have a room designated for use as a Holy of Holies. When in doubt, ask a member of the temple presidency or even the temple recorder in any temple and they will confirm such.

Interesting. I wonder why. I think the relevant ordinances are usually only done in SLC although I have heard of them at the LA temple.

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1 hour ago, clarkgoble said:

Interesting. I wonder why. I think the relevant ordinances are usually only done in SLC although I have heard of them at the LA temple.

No, they are done in other temples also. I enjoy talking with temple recorders; you can learn many things.

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3 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

This is correct. In our temple, it is one of the sealing rooms, which has the extra equipment located behind a curtain.

There are various ways, depending on the temple, how this is done and where things are stored to be used in these ordinances. 

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3 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

This is correct. In our temple, it is one of the sealing rooms, which has the extra equipment located behind a curtain.

Hamba, what do you mean by “extra equipment” (if you can say)?

Is it for when there are second anointings done?

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