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“In coming days, it will not be possible to survive spiritually without the guiding, directing, comforting, and constant influence of the Holy Ghost."

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Will you feel worse?  Worst case scenario, if the worst thing that happens is that you feel the same, it's a wash, right?  I don't know what your challenges are, so I hesitate to say that I can relate, but let's say I get the impression or the inspiration to do something, or I'm faced with the challenge of doing something I know I should do, but I find it extraordinarily difficult.  (That happens a lot.)  I usually say, "I don't want to."  (That also happens a lot.)  Then, my inner dialogue says (and I can't take credit for this: My mom is the one who used it first), "That's OK.  You don't have to want to."  ;)  Then, my inner dialogue says, "Well, are you going to feel better, worse, or the same if you don't do it?"

I have another job on the phones. :rolleyes: (I know that's not the worst thing in the world, by far, but I would give certain sensitive portions of my anatomy up to not have to do it and to be able to do something else.)  I work for a company that has self-paced training, which is both good and bad: Good, because I don't have to sit in class thinking I'm the only kid who doesn't "get it"; bad, because if I don't "get it," my options for trying to "get it" are more limited.  The company's executive structure is such that it doesn't have dedicated trainers.  The powers-that-be have left that job to a pair of senior executives, both of whom have a lot on their plate, and who are not always (or are seldom?) available to answer any questions.

I was to the point, after about my fourth barely-restful night in a row after my third day this week of trying (often futilely) to grasp the elements of my job in an industry in which I have never worked, of texting my "trainer" and telling him, "I'm sorry.  I can't do this.  I'm done."  My inner dialogue said, "Well, you're right:  That is one option, if you do that, you're limiting your remaining options.  On the other hand, if you show up for work and clock in, no matter what else happens, they have to pay you, and that's true until they tell you, 'You know what, Ken?  We're sorry, but this isn't working out.  Best wishes in your future occupational endeavors,' and you should force them to make that decision: They're the ones who hired you.  It's their responsibility to see to it that you can do the job, or, if they decide they made a mistake in hiring you, to show you the door.  You know what?  Maybe you're right.  Maybe you can't do the job, but, if that's the case, at least you should force them to own up to their decision to hire you, and to be the ones who reverse that decision if they decide they made a mistake.  Besides, after tomorrow [Saturday], you get three days off to consider your options and to plan your next move.  But if you tell them, 'Sorry, can't do this, I'm done' now, instead, all of that is off of the table.  On the other hand, all you have to do is get through Saturday, and, whatever else may come, you can do that ... if you choose to.  It's your choice."

My Saturday wasn't the best day in the world, but it wasn't a total disaster.  I spent a good part of the day Y-jacking (two headphones, one jack, one person handles the call, the other person listens in) with someone who actually does the job I'm supposed to be doing (after spending much of the week Y-jacking with people who don't do my job; go figure! :rolleyes:).  I made my first call while someone Y-jacked with me.  It was terrible, but it was my first call.  I had a pointed conversation with her (she's in management) about what information I need, telling her point-blank,      "This is what I need to be successful.  If I don't get it, I'm not going to be successful.  It's that simple."  She listened attentively, which is more than I can say for my "trainer."  It's my understanding that we have a game plan going forward.  I hope it works.  A part of me is not optimistic, but I don't have to worry about that until Wednesday.  (I work Wednesday through Saturday, 10 hours a day.  If I stay, I'm going to learn to love this schedule: I don't yet, but I will.)

So, I lived to fight another day.  "Sufficient to the day is the evil thereof."  Will Wednesday be the day I actually quit?  Maybe. :unknw: But at least I made it through yesterday.

I’m rooting for you Kenngo!  You have a great attitude 👍

Edited by JulieM
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26 minutes ago, JulieM said:

I’m rooting for you Kenngo!  You have a great attitude 👍

Me too.

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2 hours ago, SouthernMo said:

I for one don’t necessarily believe that my standing in the Mormon church and agreement with its teachings are indicative of spiritual strength.  They are two separate things.

Membership in the church, and the ordinances and covenants that are a part of it, qualify us for further spirituality, they don't guarantee it.  It is all pretty well spelled out in the sacrament prayers. 

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Posted (edited)
On 4/13/2019 at 11:16 AM, rockpond said:

It isn't my wife's personality to want to find fear.  I don't think she was looking for that or hoping for it - but it is what she heard.

Hmm.  So that's what the Holy Spirit imparted to her?  Cf. 2 Timothy 1:7, Mormon 8:16; see also Leah Welker (February 2018), "Perfect Love Casteth Out All Fear," Ensign, accessed on line at https://www.lds.org/study/ensign/2018/02/perfect-love-casteth-out-all-fear?lang=eng on April 14, 2019.

Edited by Kenngo1969
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On 4/10/2019 at 12:54 AM, pogi said:

...says carbon dioxide.  You would! 

Just keep in mind that with warmer weather and oceans comes death, disease, and distruction.  It’s not all sunshine and green foliage.

My reading suggests to me that AGW beginning thousands of years ago has prevented the return of the next glaciation, or at least delayed it significantly. Not sure ice is more survivable. But I do look forward to what's going to happen. Being 67 (i.e. old and fat), I don't expect to see a lot of it, however.

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1 hour ago, pogi said:

Membership in the church, and the ordinances and covenants that are a part of it, qualify us for further spirituality, they don't guarantee it.  It is all pretty well spelled out in the sacrament prayers. 

It is spelled out clearly - you’re right. Here’s what challenges me. I know a few people who I consider extremely spiritual who have not made the LDS covenants.

What am I to make of it?  Would they be more spiritual if they did make those covenants, or are the covenants unnecessary in growing spirituality?  Something else?

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On 4/9/2019 at 12:34 PM, SeekingUnderstanding said:

So is it possible for virtue to garnish our thoughts unceasingly? In mortality?

I'm sorry but this sounds like we get closer and closer, but never there? Sounds like Zeno's dichotomy paradox. Again if perfectly following promptings is required and we aren't perfect, how does that work?

I'm not sure I understand this.

It is impossible and possible. 

Through the grace of Christ, via His atonement, makes it possible to lift us and instantaneously fills the gap of our own weakness. Thus, we can have that constant companionship as long as we are in that repentant stage (e.g. turning toward Him not away). 

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5 minutes ago, SouthernMo said:

It is spelled out clearly - you’re right. Here’s what challenges me. I know a few people who I consider extremely spiritual who have not made the LDS covenants.

What am I to make of it?  Would they be more spiritual if they did make those covenants, or are the covenants unnecessary in growing spirituality?  Something else?

I too personally know several people who I consider to be highly spiritual individuals who are not LDS.  I know of many , many, more whom I look up to spiritually, and am inspired by on a regular basis, who are not LDS.  Anyone, from any faith, can be great examples of spirituality as they adhere to the principles of truth as taught in their different faith traditions.  In fact, I think some faiths are more advanced in certain principles of spirituality than we find in the Church.  I tend not to look at "spirituality" in a monochromatic way.  To me, it is polychromatic.  Different principles lend different shades, hues, and brightness to what we tend to speak of in a monolithic way - "spirituality".

I think what Mormonism offers is the eventual means to circumscribe all shades of spirituality into "one great whole".  It is only through the priesthood and the ordinances that this is possible.   I also believe that it is only through the ordinances that the baptism of fire can be realized. 

I have no doubt that our own spirituality can be enhanced by learning from other faiths, as mine has been.  But I also believe that we hold the only key to divine growth, spiritually speaking.  I have no doubt that all spiritual individuals will embrace that key at some point in their progression, many will be far more advanced spiritually than many Latter-day Saints.

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1 hour ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Hmm.  So that's what the Holy Spirit imparted to her?  

No.  As I stated, it was just her observation at the end of conference. 

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8 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

 

 

@The Nehor Will you feel worse?  Worst case scenario, if the worst thing that happens is that you feel the same, it's a wash, right?  I don't know what your challenges are, so I hesitate to say that I can relate, but let's say I get the impression or the inspiration to do something, or I'm faced with the challenge of doing something I know I should do, but I find it extraordinarily difficult.  (That happens a lot.)  I usually say, "I don't want to."  (That also happens a lot.)  Then, my inner dialogue says (and I can't take credit for this: My mom is the one who used it first), "That's OK.  You don't have to want to."  ;)  Then, my inner dialogue says, "Well, are you going to feel better, worse, or the same if you don't do it?"

I have another job on the phones. :rolleyes: (I know that's not the worst thing in the world, by far, but I would give certain sensitive portions of my anatomy up to not have to do it and to be able to do something else.)  I work for a company that has self-paced training, which is both good and bad: Good, because I don't have to sit in class thinking I'm the only kid who doesn't "get it"; bad, because if I don't "get it," my options for trying to "get it" are more limited.  The company's executive structure is such that it doesn't have dedicated trainers.  The powers-that-be have left that job to a pair of senior executives, both of whom have a lot on their plate, and who are not always (or are seldom?) available to answer any questions.

I was to the point, after about my fourth barely-restful night in a row after my third day this week of trying (often futilely) to grasp the elements of my job in an industry in which I have never worked, of texting my "trainer" and telling him, "I'm sorry.  I can't do this.  I'm done."  My inner dialogue said, "Well, you're right:  That is one option, if you do that, you're limiting your remaining options.  On the other hand, if you show up for work and clock in, no matter what else happens, they have to pay you, and that's true until they tell you, 'You know what, Ken?  We're sorry, but this isn't working out.  Best wishes in your future occupational endeavors,' and you should force them to make that decision: They're the ones who hired you.  It's their responsibility to see to it that you can do the job, or, if they decide they made a mistake in hiring you, to show you the door.  You know what?  Maybe you're right.  Maybe you can't do the job, but, if that's the case, at least you should force them to own up to their decision to hire you, and to be the ones who reverse that decision if they decide they made a mistake.  Besides, after tomorrow [Saturday], you get three days off to consider your options and to plan your next move.  But if you tell them, 'Sorry, can't do this, I'm done' now, instead, all of that is off of the table.  On the other hand, all you have to do is get through Saturday, and, whatever else may come, you can do that ... if you choose to.  It's your choice."

My Saturday wasn't the best day in the world, but it wasn't a total disaster.  I spent a good part of the day Y-jacking (two headphones, one jack, one person handles the call, the other person listens in) with someone who actually does the job I'm supposed to be doing (after spending much of the week Y-jacking with people who don't do my job; go figure! :rolleyes:).  I made my first call while someone Y-jacked with me.  It was terrible, but it was my first call.  I had a pointed conversation with her (she's in management) about what information I need, telling her point-blank,      "This is what I need to be successful.  If I don't get it, I'm not going to be successful.  It's that simple."  She listened attentively, which is more than I can say for my "trainer."  It's my understanding that we have a game plan going forward.  I hope it works.  A part of me is not optimistic, but I don't have to worry about that until Wednesday.  (I work Wednesday through Saturday, 10 hours a day.  If I stay, I'm going to learn to love this schedule: I don't yet, but I will.)

So, I lived to fight another day.  "Sufficient to the day is the evil thereof."  Will Wednesday be the day I actually quit?  Maybe. :unknw: But at least I made it through yesterday.

You are stronger then I am.

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On 4/11/2019 at 10:34 AM, MiserereNobis said:

I've always been a bit puzzled about the LDS gift of the Holy Ghost, constant companionship, etc. My question has been what is the difference between an LDS experience of the Holy Ghost and a non-LDS experience? And how can you know that your experience with the Holy Ghost is somehow better or longer than those of others?

@Wade Englund says you recognize it by the person's fruit and countenance. Is that the LDS view or is it his personal one?

It seems a bit presumptuous to say that LDS have a stronger (or whatever superlative you want to use) experience of the Holy Ghost when it is quite impossible to compare your experience with others.

How does this work, really? What is special about your experience compared to others and how do you know that it is special?

I see a few concepts covering this.

The light of Christ, which all people possess and experience (conscience or instinctive sense of right and wrong) from birth and which quickens our intelligence in relation to righteousness and upon haring the Word, recognizing God's truth, particularly the gift of His Son, Jesus Christ.

The power of the Holy Ghost, which testifies of points of God's truth in an exceptional way. The light of Christ remains, but the power of the Holy Ghost is more temporary while at the same time more convincing. This is given to all people who can receive it.

The Gift of the Holy Ghost comes by way of ordnance, by the laying on of hands by proper priesthood authority. It is then up to the individual to receive it and cultivate that personal constant companionship which purifies and sanctifies, and provides revelation and so forth throughout one's life. So this experience is different for someone who has the gift as opposed to someone who doesn't.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/gift-of-the-holy-ghost?lang=eng

https://www.lds.org/topics/holy-ghost?lang=eng

For me, "constant" or this purpose means, "Fixed or firm in mind, purpose, affection or principle; unshaken; unmoved; as a constant friend or lover." (Webster 1828). So I think it has more to do with quality than temporal continuation. Even when our constant companion purifies and sanctifies us, we have to be diligent in maintaining those blessings (D&C 20:34).

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On 4/10/2019 at 12:07 PM, pogi said:

You must not live in Saint George. 😀

J. Golden Kimball is reported to have said once (but who knows how many such things he actually said, on the one hand, and how many such things someone said, "Hey, that sounds like something J. Golden Kimball would say, so it's something I'm simply going to attribute to him," on the other hand ;) ), "If I had a house in Saint George, and a house in Hell :diablo:, I'd rent out the one in Saint George, and live in Hell!" ;):D

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2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

You are stronger then I am.

Oh, baloney!  :P:rolleyes:  I didn't write any of that to set myself up as any kind of a paragon of virtue, as a tower of strength, or as anything else of the kind.  While I've told much of my story here, there's a lot of it I've held back.  Truth be told, in many ways, I have been my own worst enemy, have shot myself in the foot at critical junctures, and so on and so forth.  I will freely admit my flaws; my only reason for not doing so more extensively here is for the sake of brevity, of succinctness.  In many more ways than one, my past has bitten me in the rump (probably justifiably so): My only question is, since it has bitten me and has bitten me hard (and justifiably so, I'll admit), why it seems that it should be allowed to keep chewing.

It's almost as if Bar Associations say, "Yes, we believe in redemption, but only for reformed criminal defendants, not for prospective members of the Bar who've been denied admission on character and fitness grounds."  And, "Yes, we want members of the Bar to be able to reach and to help those with criminal pasts, but if you have one yourself, don't bother applying."  (I have a minor criminal record: I freaking swear, no one has gotten more mileage out of a piddly little misdemeanor than those who have sought to use mine against me. :rolleyes:)  And, "Yes, we want members of the Bar to be able to reach and to help those who have complex behavioral health histories, but if you have one yourself, don't bother applying."   And, "Yes, we want members of the Bar to be able to reach and to help those who have suffered financial reversals, but if you've suffered one yourself, don't bother applying."  And so on. Applicants seemed damned if they do, and damned if they don't: "If there's anything in your history we should know about, you should disclose it: If you don't, we're going to ding you for lack of candor."  On the other hand, "But if you do disclose it, we're going to ding you for the misdeeds you disclose."  So, "It's not a question of whether you're going to die from poisoning, it's simply a question of which poison you're going to die from.  But, since you're going to die no matter what, by all means, pick your poison."

And, the idiot psychologist who evaluated me in 2014 took exactly that same approach, this, despite nearly ten years of earnest, sincere, sustained efforts at rehabilitation which his careless evaluation blithely swept away.  I don't have to disclose the evaluation this year: The Bar's rules for behavioral health history mandate disclosure of treatment within the previous five years (though, at least arguably, evaluation isn't treatment, at all) and of hospitalization within the previous ten years, so I guess I'm clear, but what's the point?  The Bar's simply going to find something to use against me, no matter what.  William Faulkner was right: "The past isn't dead.  The past isn't even past."

But I keep breathing, probably for no other reason than I'm too damn stupid to know when I've been licked. :rolleyes:  (Hell, I can't even find work as a paralegal, for goodness sake!)  To borrow and slightly alter the inimitable Major Frank Burns of M*A*S*H infamy, "I believe in the sanctity of human life, no matter how ugly or disgusting it gets." ;) (He was talking about marriage.)  Sure, a lot of this is my fault.  The only thing I can say is, it's a good thing God forgives, because Bar Associations sure as hell don't. :rolleyes:  There'll always be phones to answer.  (I freaking swear, I could have a Ph-freaking-D from MI-freaking-T summa cum freaking laude in freaking physics, for crying out loud, and a hiring manager would say, "Ph.D., summa cum laude from MIT, hmmm?  Very impressive!  Unfortunately, our physicist position has been filled, but I do see here that you also have phone experience, and we have another department that does that ..."

[/END RANT]

[/END THREADJACK]

Sorry! :huh::unknw:

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36 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Oh, baloney!  :P:rolleyes:  I didn't write any of that to set myself up as any kind of a paragon of virtue, as a tower of strength, or as anything else of the kind.  While I've told much of my story here, there's a lot of it I've held back.  Truth be told, in many ways, I have been my own worst enemy, have shot myself in the foot at critical junctures, and so on and so forth.  I will freely admit my flaws; my only reason for not doing so more extensively here is for the sake of brevity, of succinctness.  In many more ways than one, my past has bitten me in the rump (probably justifiably so): My only question is, since it has bitten me and has bitten me hard (and justifiably so, I'll admit), why it seems that it should be allowed to keep chewing.

It's almost as if Bar Associations say, "Yes, we believe in redemption, but only for reformed criminal defendants, not for prospective members of the Bar who've been denied admission on character and fitness grounds."  And, "Yes, we want members of the Bar to be able to reach and to help those with criminal pasts, but if you have one yourself, don't bother applying."  (I have a minor criminal record: I freaking swear, no one has gotten more mileage out of a piddly little misdemeanor than those who have sought to use mine against me. :rolleyes:)  And, "Yes, we want members of the Bar to be able to reach and to help those who have complex behavioral health histories, but if you have one yourself, don't bother applying."   And, "Yes, we want members of the Bar to be able to reach and to help those who have suffered financial reversals, but if you've suffered one yourself, don't bother applying."  And so on. Applicants seemed damned if they do, and damned if they don't: "If there's anything in your history we should know about, you should disclose it: If you don't, we're going to ding you for lack of candor."  On the other hand, "But if you do disclose it, we're going to ding you for the misdeeds you disclose."  So, "It's not a question of whether you're going to die from poisoning, it's simply a question of which poison you're going to die from.  But, since you're going to die no matter what, by all means, pick your poison."

And, the idiot psychologist who evaluated me in 2014 took exactly that same approach, this, despite nearly ten years of earnest, sincere, sustained efforts at rehabilitation which his careless evaluation blithely swept away.  I don't have to disclose the evaluation this year: The Bar's rules for behavioral health history mandate disclosure of treatment within the previous five years (though, at least arguably, evaluation isn't treatment, at all) and of hospitalization within the previous ten years, so I guess I'm clear, but what's the point?  The Bar's simply going to find something to use against me, no matter what.  William Faulkner was right: "The past isn't dead.  The past isn't even past."

But I keep breathing, probably for no other reason than I'm too damn stupid to know when I've been licked. :rolleyes:  (Hell, I can't even find work as a paralegal, for goodness sake!)  To borrow and slightly alter the inimitable Major Frank Burns of M*A*S*H infamy, "I believe in the sanctity of human life, no matter how ugly or disgusting it gets." ;) (He was talking about marriage.)  Sure, a lot of this is my fault.  The only thing I can say is, it's a good thing God forgives, because Bar Associations sure as hell don't. :rolleyes:  There'll always be phones to answer.  (I freaking swear, I could have a Ph-freaking-D from MI-freaking-T summa cum freaking laude in freaking physics, for crying out loud, and a hiring manager would say, "Ph.D., summa cum laude from MIT, hmmm?  Very impressive!  Unfortunately, our physicist position has been filled, but I do see here that you also have phone experience, and we have another department that does that ..."

[/END RANT]

[/END THREADJACK]

Sorry! :huh::unknw:

The Utah State Bar is useless and counterproductive of its alleged aims. It was formed to protect its membership from DOPL and the practice from erosion at the hands of the legislature. What you have suffered is a direct result of its utter failure.  You are entirely right to despise it.

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22 minutes ago, USU78 said:

The Utah State Bar is useless and counterproductive of its alleged aims. It was formed to protect its membership from DOPL and the practice from erosion at the hands of the legislature. What you have suffered is a direct result of its utter failure.  You are entirely right to despise it.

Problem for Utah State Bar in specific or all Bar Associations in general?

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16 minutes ago, Calm said:

Problem for Utah State Bar in specific or all Bar Associations in general?

Good question. It started with the ABA going all Pelosi by throwing its weight behind abortion for all and abolishing the 2nd Amendment in the mid 80s. Yes, I know that's hardly something the ABA should be weighing in on. And that's my point. They are so politicized.

And whither the useless ceremonial magazine publishing legal arm of the DNC slithers, the state bars must surely sashay.

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On 4/9/2019 at 9:27 AM, nuclearfuels said:

his message came up a lot during General Conference. What do you think it's a warning of? 

Economic Recession / Depression?

Political assassination?

Natural disasters?

All of the above?

Only two of the above?

or

Second Coming?

Simple changes to the temple ordinance 

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10 hours ago, SouthernMo said:

I for one don’t necessarily believe that my standing in the Mormon church and agreement with its teachings are indicative of spiritual strength.  They are two separate things.

So, one gains spiritual strength through disagreeing with the Church?

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7 hours ago, SouthernMo said:

It is spelled out clearly - you’re right. Here’s what challenges me. I know a few people who I consider extremely spiritual who have not made the LDS covenants.

What am I to make of it?  Would they be more spiritual if they did make those covenants, or are the covenants unnecessary in growing spirituality?  Something else?

If one is truly spiritual then at some point they will be led to making the covenants.

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11 minutes ago, CMZ said:

So, one gains spiritual strength through disagreeing with the Church?

Seriously?  That's what you took from SouthernMo's statement?

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10 minutes ago, CMZ said:

If one is truly spiritual then at some point they will be led to making the covenants.

Maybe.  But, there are a lot of truly spiritual people who have not made LDS covenants.

Every single day we fall behind to the tune of roughly a quarter-million people when you compare global birth rates to our current temple capacity.  And, of course, there are the billions that were born before we started doing proxy temple work.

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58 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Maybe.  But, there are a lot of truly spiritual people who have not made LDS covenants.

Every single day we fall behind to the tune of roughly a quarter-million people when you compare global birth rates to our current temple capacity.  And, of course, there are the billions that were born before we started doing proxy temple work.

I'm not terribly worried about how much we might be "falling behind," as you put it.  Exalting His children is what God does, after all.  It's all He does (see Moses 1:39).  He's very good at it.  And it isn't as though He's going to overlook anyone (see Matthew 10:29, Moses 1:37). While God isn't going to exalt anyone against his or her will, the good news is, He's also very persuasive.  And He has eternity to do it, which is pretty much all the time He'll need. ;):D

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1 hour ago, CMZ said:

So, one gains spiritual strength through disagreeing with the Church?

Not necessarily. One finds his/her path to god independently of the LDS church sometimes. Not in opposition to it.

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12 hours ago, SouthernMo said:

It is spelled out clearly - you’re right. Here’s what challenges me. I know a few people who I consider extremely spiritual who have not made the LDS covenants.

For this, I'd nominate a few non-LDS members of this board, such as Navidad, 3DOP and MisereNobis.

12 hours ago, SouthernMo said:

What am I to make of it?  Would they be more spiritual if they did make those covenants, or are the covenants unnecessary in growing spirituality?  Something else?

The answer to this is Yes.  IMHO. These covenants deepen the spirituality -- or can do.

I've always felt the presence of the Spirit (though I didn't recognize it as such at the time), even long before I even heard of the LDS Church.  I mean "always" not in the sense of constantly feeling it, but frequently finding it being there.  But the first time I consciously followed a prompting of the Spirit, when I was directed to introduce myself to the young man who told me about the Church, my spirituality and closeness to the Spirit took a dramatic shift.  It's definitely been a matter of here a little, there a little, but it's been progressive, with the occasional deviation.

It seems to have been a matter of obedience.  When I complied with the will of the Lord, I grew.  When I didn't, I stagnated, or regressed.  I think this has been demonstrated to be a key, or perhaps "the" key.  

Thanks for the question, by the way!  Contemplating it it has helped me recognize some things that were not fully evident before.

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On 4/9/2019 at 6:34 PM, SeekingUnderstanding said:

So is it possible for virtue to garnish our thoughts unceasingly? In mortality?

I'm pretty sure this is possible.  I find that it is getting more and more possible as I go on.  I'm sure I'm not the only one to find this.  But it's clear that some people resist virtue.

On 4/9/2019 at 6:34 PM, SeekingUnderstanding said:

I'm sorry but this sounds like we get closer and closer, but never there? Sounds like Zeno's dichotomy paradox. Again if perfectly following promptings is required and we aren't perfect, how does that work?

I'm not sure I understand this.

It's interesting to me that as I gracefully age both in body and spirit (seems that the body is getting worse off as the spirit is getting better!), D&C 121:45,46 gets more and more significant:

45 Let thy bowels also be full of charity towards all men, and to the
household of faith, and let virtue garnish thy thoughts unceasingly; then
shall thy confidence wax strong in the presence of God; and the doctrine of
the priesthood shall distil upon thy soul as the dews from heaven.
46 The Holy Ghost shall be thy constant companion, and thy scepter an
unchanging scepter of righteousness and truth; and thy dominion shall be an
everlasting dominion, and without compulsory means it shall flow unto thee
forever and ever.

This is a promise with two prerequisites. The prerequisites are:

  1. Loving all men and in particular loving those of the household of faith
  2. Keeping your thoughts virtuous

As you do these things and get better at them, these are promised blessings:

  1. Having confidence in God's presence -- i.e. being unafraid at the prospect of standing naked in God's presence
  2. Having a greater understanding of the doctrine of the priesthood -- which doctrine, in my opinion, is the pure love of Christ
  3. Having the Holy Ghost as one's constant companion -- feeling the guidance of the HG in all that one does
  4. Having one's scepter be an unchanging scepter of righteousness and truth 
  5. Having an everlasting dominion that flows to you without any further effort on your part

Items 4 and 5 seem to be related to exaltation.

As you suggest, I don't believe that achieving perfect charity and virtuousness is possible in mortality, but I'm pretty sure we can achieve it to a more or less greater degree.  For those who despair of this I suggest that they just keep up trying.  The expectation simply must be of gradual improvement.  What is unattainable is instant gratification.  The effort itself will bring one as close to it as possible.  Perfection must wait on the resurrection, I think.

The gospel seems to deal a lot with "line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little," or, in other words, eternal progression.  Even if one is jumping off a cliff, it still takes a measurable length of time to get to the bottom -- the opposite must necessarily be true, that elevation to the highest must take time.  And effort.  And passing through the Refiner's Fire.

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