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“In coming days, it will not be possible to survive spiritually without the guiding, directing, comforting, and constant influence of the Holy Ghost."

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3 minutes ago, pogi said:

...says carbon dioxide.  You would! 

Just keep in mind that with warmer weather and oceans comes death, disease, and distruction.  It’s not all sunshine and green foliage.

Yes.   All of which must happen before Christ returns.  People want Christ to come back but they don't want the stuff that has to come with it before he comes.  It is all part of the package.  We are not going to sleep walk into the 2nd coming.  Its not a time where people are having a good time and everything is wonderful and then Christ comes.  Christ comes at a time of death, disease, and destruction.  If people don't want that, they really don't want Christ to come back.

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16 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

If people don't want that, they really don't want Christ to come back.

As long as you are willing to be one of those suffering , I don't have a problem with you saying you are looking forward to it,  It is those who think they will be protected and all the bad will happen to others as they look on and rejoice that bug me.

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22 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

Yes.   All of which must happen before Christ returns.  People want Christ to come back but they don't want the stuff that has to come with it before he comes.  It is all part of the package.  We are not going to sleep walk into the 2nd coming.  Its not a time where people are having a good time and everything is wonderful and then Christ comes.  Christ comes at a time of death, disease, and destruction.  If people don't want that, they really don't want Christ to come back.

This is one of the most toxic things about religion in my opinion. The idea that we don’t need to worry about what we are doing to the earth because it’s required for some future foretold apocalypse is horrifying to me. 

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8 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

his message came up a lot during General Conference. What do you think it's a warning of? 

I'll have to read it in context, but generally speaking, this counsel has been applicable from the day I joined the Church back in 1975, and still is. I think it is warning of the inevitable trials that would undermine our spirituality without conscious effort to keep the Gift of the Holy Ghost alive and well. There were a couple of references during the Conference to the last days and the Second Coming (which we know have some attendant tribulations), but this counsel can relate to personal trials as much as large-scale ones. If there were any specific event for everyone to know about and prepare for, I think it would / will be articulated through leadership channels.

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9 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

I have heard a lot of scoffing hereabouts when someone brings up that God helps them find their keys etc and other rather trivial matters.

It works for me all the time.

Why would anything like that be too trivial for God to help us with?

I've heard stories of missionaries finding the exact amount of spare change they needed on the street to buy themselves dinner.

So why is that sort of thing impossible?

 

I don't think it's the accounts themselves that people have a problem with, as much as it is the idea that God does something like that for someone, on the one hand, yet, e.g., He allows a little baby to die, on the other.  For many people, death is the worst imaginable outcome, while you and I know that there was something before this life, that there is something after it, and that (as important as what happens in this life might be) God can (as trite as this phrase might be) "make lemonade out of the lemons" someone received in this life, and so on.

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1 hour ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

This is one of the most toxic things about religion in my opinion. The idea that we don’t need to worry about what we are doing to the earth because it’s required for some future foretold apocalypse is horrifying to me. 

Who says I don't think we should worry about the earth?  I however don't worry about things I can't control.  It is a waste of time.  Just as Avengers Endgame is coming soon, we are progressing slowly but surely to the endgame.  There was an article a while back that said that even if all the nations was to achieve their objectives from the Paris agreement, it is not enough.  That agreement only focused in on carbon emissions made by man.  They did not factor in natural emissions like melting permafrost.  It pretty much admitted that it is already too late.   I just have a strong confidence that things are progressing as has been foretold.  Does it excite me that all this stuff is going to happen?  By itself no.  What does give me courage and joy is that it all is moving forward towards the end.  I rather see Jesus come within the next 50 years than the next 500 years.  Which means if I want Jesus to come in the next 50 years, I have to be willing to accept what has to occur before that happens. 

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1 hour ago, Calm said:

As long as you are willing to be one of those suffering , I don't have a problem with you saying you are looking forward to it,  It is those who think they will be protected and all the bad will happen to others as they look on and rejoice that bug me.

I don't want to suffer but I also know that suffering is a part of life.  What is the worst that can happen to me in all the stuff.  I will die from it.  Not any different result that when I get in my car.  Every day I risk death.  Death is a part of life. 

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This has always been true. IMHO as society becomes increasingly secular, this is becoming even more true. 

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2 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

Christ comes at a time of death, disease, and destruction.  If people don't want that, they really don't want Christ to come back.

Just to clarify, you want people to suffer?

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12 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

What do you think it's a warning of?

The answer is in the question: not surviving spiritually.

Elder Bednar brought up this issue with us in our training meeting some years ago. Those who are fully engaged in the work of salvation receive the aid of the Holy Ghost. They obtain revelation. They are guided by inspiration. Their capacity increases. They feel joy. As a consequence, they know what is true. They know God is real. They know He is involved in their lives. They know what He wants them to do.

Outside this process, what does anyone really know? 

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9 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

The answer is in the question: not surviving spiritually.

Elder Bednar brought up this issue with us in our training meeting some years ago. Those who are fully engaged in the work of salvation receive the aid of the Holy Ghost. They obtain revelation. They are guided by inspiration. Their capacity increases. They feel joy. As a consequence, they know what is true. They know God is real. They know He is involved in their lives. They know what He wants them to do.

Outside this process, what does anyone really know? 

What gets very interesting is when secular scholarship matches inspiration.

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12 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

his message came up a lot during General Conference. What do you think it's a warning of? 

Economic Recession / Depression?

Political assassination?

Natural disasters?

All of the above?

Only two of the above?

or

Second Coming?

Do any of the above, with the possible exception of "second coming", have anything directly to do with spiritual survival?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

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13 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Is it possible to have the constant companionship/influence of the Holy Ghost?

Yes.  I do.  "Constant" not meaning "100 percent" nor "ready to fly away with halo and wings".  Let's call it 85-90--i.e., constant.  And I can say this because not of who I am, but because of the influence of the Holy Ghost itself that remains in my home--constantly.  In my body--constantly.  I am actually surprised at how little I have to do.  That's why I said yes--again, not by me.  But, yes, I know that influence is here in my home, and I am awe-fully grateful for that mercy.  It's a lightening, comforting, guiding, sanctifying spirit that clings to even the curtains, and follows me about when I leave the home, and brings me back.  And helps me lay down at night, and wakes me up in the morning.  It's so quiet I forget it's there . . . and then I remember.  Yum.

12 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

So is it possible for virtue to garnish our thoughts unceasingly? In mortality?

Yes.  If for no other reason than how wearying it is to carry the damaging thoughts.

12 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

I would agree (love Hamba's posts), but I didn't say come close. I asked if it was possible to do. 

Close IS constant.

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5 hours ago, katherine the great said:

The only person I have ever known who even attempted this drove everyone else crazy.  Mission papers sat on his desk for weeks while he waited for a definite prompting from the Holy Ghost to send them in. Temple recommends went unsigned until he had the time to pray and ponder over it. Important ward business took a backseat to his own spirituality. People were inconvenienced right and left while he was in preparation to have the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost. And in the meantime, life happens.

And yet you don't feel this was inspired behavior, right?

I just didn't want anybody to think that if one wants the constant companionship of the holy Ghost, one need not act that way.

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1 hour ago, Maidservant said:

Yes.  I do.  "Constant" not meaning "100 percent" nor "ready to fly away with halo and wings".  Let's call it 85-90--i.e., constant.  And I can say this because not of who I am, but because of the influence of the Holy Ghost itself that remains in my home--constantly.  In my body--constantly.  I am actually surprised at how little I have to do.  That's why I said yes--again, not by me.  But, yes, I know that influence is here in my home, and I am awe-fully grateful for that mercy.  It's a lightening, comforting, guiding, sanctifying spirit that clings to even the curtains, and follows me about when I leave the home, and brings me back.  And helps me lay down at night, and wakes me up in the morning.  It's so quiet I forget it's there . . . and then I remember.  Yum.

Yes.  If for no other reason than how wearying it is to carry the damaging thoughts.

Close IS constant.

Good for you!

My wife is like that as well. I continue to work toward it. Except when Scott rubs me the wrong way. ;)

 

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Posted (edited)

I suppose I need to work on being less hard-headed and, more importantly, on being less hard-hearted.  On occasion, it is only in retrospect that I recognize instances in which I have been guided by the Holy Spirit.  We know, though, from the Book of Mormon that it is possible to experience the Holy Spirit without realizing it at the time.  Consider 3 Nephi 9:20 from the Book of Mormon:

Quote

20 And ye shall offer for a sacrifice unto me a broken heart and a contrite spirit. And whoso cometh unto me with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, him will I baptize with fire and with the Holy Ghost, even as the Lamanites, because of their faith in me at the time of their conversion, were baptized with fire and with the Holy Ghost, and they knew it not. [Emphasis mine.]

When one considers all of the potential obstacles to recognizing, in the moment, the Holy Spirit for what it is, such as living in a fallen world and, therefore being out of our element (we're spiritual beings sent here to have a mortal experience rather than mortal beings who have been sent here to have occasional spiritual experiences), the influence of our mortal bodies (illness, both physical and behavioral, can have a huge impact) it's little wonder (and it only makes sense) that we might experience the Holy Spirit and yet "[know] it not."

And Nephi wasn't led by the Holy Spirit in the sense that it laid out the plan for that particular experience or interaction for him all at once (Okay, first, you're going to do this; and then you're going to do this, and so on).  Rather, it was, "Nephi, I want you to get the Brass Plates."  Of that occasion, he wrote, "And I was led by the Spirit, not knowing beforehand the things which I should do" (1 Nephi 4:6).  And, "Nephi, I want you to build a ship."  Yes, he was shown how to construct the ship, but he didn't see the blueprints all at once.  (It would have been easy to shut Laman and Lemuel up and to gain their cooperation: Just show them the plans! :rolleyes:)

Brigham Young once said something to the effect (paraphrasing, not quoting), If I ask God for direction regarding my own course or that of those over whom I preside, and I get no answer from Him but, instead, do the very best that my own resources and experience have taught me, God is bound to honor that transaction, to all intents and purposes.  A wise (in fact, he was wise beyond his years: he was quite young) stake leader once taught me that there are at least four answers to prayer: (1) Yes; (2) No; (3) Not yet; and (4) What do you think?  And we're taught in the Temple that we're here to learn "by our own experience" to distinguish good from evil and to choose the former.

Edited by Kenngo1969
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12 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

Most like spiritual deception as one does not need the holy ghost necessarily to survive a natural disaster or a depression.  Though I thing things are progressing nicely on all these fronts.  It is exciting times we are living in.  People are afraid of climate change.  I am looking forward to it.  The warmer temps and all the things it brings.  Much of which fits the last days in what is supposed to happen. 

Venus lover!  Primarily those without means to uproot and migrate are affected the most.  If you work in IT and can work from the space station Elysium you'll be ok.  

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13 hours ago, pogi said:

Not to undermine any intended urgency of his message but prophets have been saying “in coming days...” for a very long time.  It is kind of vague and perhaps intentionally so.  I think it wise counsel regardless of what might lay ahead.

I'm curious, how is what is quoted in the OP counsel?  It sounds more like threat or something.  Added to the quoted line in the OP I think it obvious there is a certain vagueness to saying we can't survive without the "constant companionship".  Some, I see, feel comfortable that they have the constant companionship so they feel they will be safe, while many others seem to lack it or question it. 

The weirdest part, of course, is the leaders are said to be fallible.  They are said to be guided by the spirit.  And they are said to be mistaken at various times.  HOw are they as error prone as any of us if they enjoy the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost?  if say they make a mistake and make pronouncements or implement policies and practices that are mistaken, then surely they did so while not prompted by the Holy Ghost to do so.  But, as it were, they suggest they were so prompted.  So it appears, they can't ever be sure if it is the Holy Ghost that is there constant companion or not either.  I admit, I'm quite fascinated to hear that some say they have the constant companionship.  

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10 hours ago, katherine the great said:

The only person I have ever known who even attempted this drove everyone else crazy.  Mission papers sat on his desk for weeks while he waited for a definite prompting from the Holy Ghost to send them in. Temple recommends went unsigned until he had the time to pray and ponder over it. Important ward business took a backseat to his own spirituality. People were inconvenienced right and left while he was in preparation to have the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost. And in the meantime, life happens.

I think part of this problem is a misunderstanding of what "constant" (and the scriptural term is "constant companion") means for this purpose. "Fixed or firm in mind, purpose, affection or principle; unshaken; unmoved; as a constant friend or lover." (Webster 1828).

Even when our constant companion purifies and sanctifies us, we have to be diligent in maintaining those blessings (D&C 20:34).

Such a constant companion does always communicate in the exact same way, either, or on-demand.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, stemelbow said:

I'm curious, how is what is quoted in the OP counsel?  It sounds more like threat or something. 

I think it would be more appropriate to call it a warning than a threat.  He is warning against the threat of the adversary; he himself is not acting as the adversary.  Big difference.

The counsel that I heard is to seek out the companionship of the Holly Ghost to protect us from spiritual threats. 

4 hours ago, stemelbow said:

Some, I see, feel comfortable that they have the constant companionship so they feel they will be safe, while many others seem to lack it or question it. 

And some feel safe with their level of physical health/fitness while others seem to lack it or question it.  Should we expect everyone to be on the same level physically?  Or should we accuse doctors of "threatening" the public by encouraging us to follow a healthy lifestyle to avoid disease and premature death?

Just as we are not all on the same level physically, we shouldn't expect us all to be on the same level spiritually.  The prophet is a warning voice to all those who are weak in spiritual health, just like a doctor is a warning voice to all those who are weak in physical health.  I know many people who are offended by their doctors for suggesting they change their lifestyle to improve overall physical well-being - I guess it is no different in spiritual matters too.   

4 hours ago, stemelbow said:

The weirdest part, of course, is the leaders are said to be fallible.  They are said to be guided by the spirit.  And they are said to be mistaken at various times.  HOw are they as error prone as any of us if they enjoy the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost?  if say they make a mistake and make pronouncements or implement policies and practices that are mistaken, then surely they did so while not prompted by the Holy Ghost to do so.  But, as it were, they suggest they were so prompted.  So it appears, they can't ever be sure if it is the Holy Ghost that is there constant companion or not either.  I admit, I'm quite fascinated to hear that some say they have the constant companionship.  

The constant companionship does not guarantee life free of errors.  Sometimes that companionship manifests as an overall spiritual peace, sometimes it is a comforting blanket, sometimes it is  prompting to pray, sometimes it is the voice of prayer, sometimes it is a yearning for God, sometimes it manifests as charity, humility, knowledge, faith, patience, a willingness to believe, sometimes it offers guidance, direction, and inspiration of what to do and say, or how to act; sometimes it is a warning voice, other times it is a healing power and sanctifying influence.  But in all of this, we still have to think for ourselves and use our agency, make mistakes, learn from our mistakes, and progress.  The Holy Ghost is not a dictator which controls our thoughts and every move to prevent any mistakes, it is a companion to support us when we are up, and when we are down. 

Edited by pogi
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18 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

Most like spiritual deception as one does not need the holy ghost necessarily to survive a natural disaster or a depression.  Though I thing things are progressing nicely on all these fronts.  It is exciting times we are living in.  People are afraid of climate change.  I am looking forward to it.  The warmer temps and all the things it brings.  Much of which fits the last days in what is supposed to happen. 

Don't we?

Wasn't it the Spirit of revelation that rested on Moses and showed him how to part the Red Sea?

If a volcano goes off and we have lava flowing toward us, would it be useful to have the Holy Ghost to show us how to command the employee rock to avoid us?

If tornados and hurricanes abound, wouldn't it be good to have the Holy Spirit to show us how to calm the winds and the rains? 

Christ is master of the elements. He made it clear during His ministry. As His servants the Spirit will show us how to do likewise if needed

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18 hours ago, pogi said:

...says carbon dioxide.  You would! 

Just keep in mind that with warmer weather and oceans comes death, disease, and distruction.  It’s not all sunshine and green foliage.

I welcome warmer weather as well.

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11 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said:

I welcome warmer weather as well.

You must not live in Saint George. 😀

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