“In coming days, it will not be possible to survive spiritually without the guiding, directing, comforting, and constant influence of the Holy Ghost."

[stemelbow]

51 minutes ago, pogi said:

I think it would be more appropriate to call it a warning than a threat.  He is warning against the threat of the adversary; he himself is not acting as the adversary.  Big difference.

Whose he?  I'm sorry i'm not sure whot he OP is quoting per se.  I can go with warning over threat on this.  I'll explain my thoughts more below.  

Quote

The counsel that I heard is to seek out the companionship of the Holly Ghost to protect us from spiritual threats. 

And some feel safe with their level of physical health/fitness while others seem to lack it or question it.  Should we expect everyone to be on the same level physically?  Or should we accuse doctors of "threatening" the public by encouraging us to follow a healthy lifestyle to avoid disease and premature death?

Just as we are not all on the same level physically, we shouldn't expect us all to be on the same level spiritually.  The prophet is a warning voice to all those who are weak in spiritual health, just like a doctor is a warning voice to all those who are weak in physical health.  I know many people who are offended by their doctors for suggesting they change their lifestyle to improve overall physical well-being - I guess it is no different in spiritual matters too.   

 

Quote

The constant companionship does not guarantee life free of errors.  Sometimes that companionship manifests as an overall spiritual peace, sometimes it is a comforting blanket, sometimes it is  prompting to pray, sometimes it is the voice of prayer, sometimes it is a yearning for God, sometimes it manifests as charity, humility, knowledge, faith, patience, a willingness to believe, sometimes it offers guidance, direction, and inspiration of what to do and say, or how to act; sometimes it is a warning voice, other times it is a healing power and sanctifying influence.  But in all of this, we still have to think for ourselves and use our agency, make mistakes, learn from our mistakes, and progress.  The Holy Ghost is not a dictator which controls our thoughts and every move to prevent any mistakes, it is a companion to support us when we are up, and when we are down. 

Everyone has the intuition and guidance you speak of.  This is not a religion thing.  So I'm not sure what the phrase may mean to have the constant companionship.   Would you say, with this notion that we are all in different places on this, that the prophet has the companionship of the Holy Ghost more than everyone else?  Is there some achievable level that puts religious Mormons at a higher level than others?  And how would anyone know?  We'd have to actually be able to see into another, it seems to me.  

So, if what you describe is all that is meant by constant companionship, then it hardly feels like a warning, since it is common to all, or nearly all.  The gift of the HG, as some official ordinance that makes it happen seems empty since all can enjoy the very same.  

[katherine the great]

11 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

And yet you don't feel this was inspired behavior, right?

I just didn't want anybody to think that if one wants the constant companionship of the holy Ghost, one need not act that way.

I think his method was atrocious and other people suffered so that he could feel more spiritual. My comment was really more about this particular person (or type). I'm quite sure there are those people who go about it in a much more productive and unselfish way.

[Teancum]

On 4/9/2019 at 12:50 PM, The Nehor said:

I know people who do. I am not one of them.

How do you know this about them?  How can someone even conclude that someone else has the constant guidance of the HG?

[Wade Englund]

6 minutes ago, Teancum said:

How do you know this about them?  How can someone even conclude that someone else has the constant guidance of the HG?

One can somewhat tell when someone else doesn't have the constant companionship by questions like what you just asked.

Those familiar with the Spirit would be cognizant of the spiritual notion of "by their fruits..." and "shown upon their countenances"

Thanks, -Wade Enlgund-

[Teancum]

1 hour ago, Wade Englund said:

One can somewhat tell when someone else doesn't have the constant companionship by questions like what you just asked.

Those familiar with the Spirit would be cognizant of the spiritual notion of "by their fruits..." and "shown upon their countenances"

Thanks, -Wade Enlgund-

No not really.  The Holy Ghost is a metaphysical confirmation that one can only experience personally and not know what is happening for someone else.

As for your comments regarding me personally I know you need to marginalize me.  it makes you feel spiritually superior and lends to your confirmation bias.  I am happy I helped keep you safe today.

And thank you for confirming you have not changed a bit.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Teancum

[SeekingUnderstanding]

1 hour ago, Wade Englund said:

One can somewhat tell when someone else doesn't have the constant companionship by questions like what you just asked.

Those familiar with the Spirit would be cognizant of the spiritual notion of "by their fruits..." and "shown upon their countenances"

Thanks, -Wade Enlgund-

If this was even remotely true, people like Joseph Bishop would never be called as MTC President. 

[MiserereNobis]

2 hours ago, Wade Englund said:

One can somewhat tell when someone else doesn't have the constant companionship by questions like what you just asked.

Those familiar with the Spirit would be cognizant of the spiritual notion of "by their fruits..." and "shown upon their countenances"

Thanks, -Wade Enlgund-

Just to clarify, do you mean that those who have the constant companionship can recognize others who also have the constant companionship?

[pogi]

8 hours ago, stemelbow said:

Whose he? 

It is President Nelson

8 hours ago, stemelbow said:

Everyone has the intuition and guidance you speak of.  This is not a religion thing.  So I'm not sure what the phrase may mean to have the constant companionship.   Would you say, with this notion that we are all in different places on this, that the prophet has the companionship of the Holy Ghost more than everyone else?  Is there some achievable level that puts religious Mormons at a higher level than others?  And how would anyone know?  We'd have to actually be able to see into another, it seems to me.  

So, if what you describe is all that is meant by constant companionship, then it hardly feels like a warning, since it is common to all, or nearly all.  The gift of the HG, as some official ordinance that makes it happen seems empty since all can enjoy the very same.  

The gift of the HG is not "some official ordinance that makes it happen..."  The ordinance qualifies us to "receive" the gift, but it does not make it happen.  I can't say how many Latter-day Saints enjoy the gift of the constant companionship, or who they are, or how they compare to the prophet.  I am certain that what I described is not "experienced by all, or nearly all."  Not even close.  Maybe you live in a relatively holy place with very special people, I don't know, but my experience is that people do not experience what I described as a constant influence in their life -I know that I don't - there is too much darkness in the world for that to be true.  

Edited April 11, 2019 by pogi

[Burnside]

22 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

What gets very interesting is when secular scholarship matches inspiration.

Yeah right. That’s a laugh. Then the Savior wasted his time calling the scribes: hypocrites.

[Burnside]

The word “constant” is found only twice in the scriptures.

1 Chronicles 28:7 and D&C 121:46, the latter specifically referring to The Holy Ghost.

 

[Burnside]

On 4/9/2019 at 5:00 PM, carbon dioxide said:

Yes.   All of which must happen before Christ returns.  People want Christ to come back but they don't want the stuff that has to come with it before he comes.  It is all part of the package.  We are not going to sleep walk into the 2nd coming.  Its not a time where people are having a good time and everything is wonderful and then Christ comes.  Christ comes at a time of death, disease, and destruction.  If people don't want that, they really don't want Christ to come back.

Really?

Sounds like a lot death, disease and destruction, and the Zombie Apocalypse, doesn’t it?

40 But of that day, and hour, no one knoweth; no, not the angels of God in heaven, but my Father only.

41 But as it was in the days of Noah, so it shall be also at the coming of the Son of Man;

42 For it shall be with them, as it was in the days which were before the flood; for until the day that Noah entered into the ark they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage;

43 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.

[Calm]

6 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

If this was even remotely true, people like Joseph Bishop would never be called as MTC President. 

I don't think that follows unless one assumes "constant companionship" equates to constant providing of clear answers.  

I find when I do have the companionship, it is more a feeling of peace and an awareness of God's love...probably something like I felt when my parent was guiding my first steps.  I also remember what I felt like when Dad was teaching me how to ride a bike.  I had figured out he let go without telling me after promising me he won't.  I did not like that and did not feel at peace or even wanting to try. (I got much less adventurous as I grew up, maybe I know why.  Dad was very good at being a safety net in other ways.)  I don't think God has done that to me and I don't believe he will, but I know some who do interpret their life as God abandoning them.  Must be hard to feel that way.

Edited April 11, 2019 by Calm

[Storm Rider]

8 hours ago, Teancum said:

How do you know this about them?  How can someone even conclude that someone else has the constant guidance of the HG?

I have met a few individuals - both male and female - that I would call holy. I believe holy people have constant, or near constant, influence of the Holy Spirit. Teancum, I would say that a state of holiness may not be a permanent condition for those that attain such a state. I believe that even the elect can fall.

Interestingly, I was reading an article today about Thomas Merton, the Trappist monk, who attained some degree of notoriety with several books he wrote and which you might be familiar.  Regardless, after serving decades as a monk and becoming a sought out individual, he had an affair with a twenty-five year old woman (he was in his fifties at the time). This stunned me. I would have never thought it possible for one that had progressed so far. The point is, one might be holy this year or for an extended period of time, but humans never stop being human.

Our command is to have an eye single to his glory. The pitfall of the holy is to begin believing that one's holiness derives from the human rather than the Holy Spirit. Pride snares all that entertain her. 

[Calm]

27 minutes ago, Burnside said:

The word “constant” is found only twice in the scriptures.

1 Chronicles 28:7 and D&C 121:46, the latter specifically referring to The Holy Ghost.

 

Not sure of your point.  Perhaps you could expand on it.

The Hebrew word translated as "constant" in the KJV appears 290 times:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=H2388&t=KJV

Some other English translations have additional usages of "constant" btw.  Others use it just in the one verse you note.

 

[SeekingUnderstanding]

26 minutes ago, Calm said:

I don't think that follows unless one assumes "constant companionship" equates to constant providing of clear answers.  

I find when I do have the companionship, it is more a feeling of peace and an awareness of God's love...probably something like I felt when my parent was guiding my first steps.  I also remember what I felt like when Dad was teaching me how to ride a bike.  I had figured out he let go without telling me after promising me he won't.  I did not like that and did not feel at peace or even wanting to try. (I got much less adventurous as I grew up, maybe I know why.  Dad was very good at being a safety net in other ways.)  I don't think God has done that to me and I don't believe he will, but I know some who do interpret their life as God abandoning them.  Must be hard to feel that way.

I have no issue with anything you said. However, Wade specifically was referring to the ability to detect the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost in others. Specifically by their fruits and countenance. 

[The Nehor]

9 hours ago, Teancum said:

How do you know this about them?  How can someone even conclude that someone else has the constant guidance of the HG?

Magic.

[Wade Englund]

8 hours ago, Teancum said:

No not really.  The Holy Ghost is a metaphysical confirmation that one can only experience personally and not know what is happening for someone else.

While you are correct that  it is metaphysical,  you are incorrect that it can only be experience personally.

8 hours ago, Teancum said:

As for your comments regarding me personally I know you need to marginalize me.  it makes you feel spiritually superior and lends to your confirmation bias.  I am happy I helped keep you safe today.

And thank you for confirming you have not changed a bit.

It was said tongue-in-cheek, and was intended to beneficially educate, and in no reasonable way should have been considers as marginalizing or make me  feel better about myself. I am not built that way--as anyone who actually knows me can attest. The fact that my intentions failed spectacularly, may rest with my lack of skills, but then again it could also have something to do with my audience. It is possible that your humor-impaired hyper-cynicism has caused your imagination to run away with itself. A case of projection perhaps?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

 

[Robert F. Smith]

2 hours ago, Burnside said:

Yeah right. That’s a laugh. Then the Savior wasted his time calling the scribes: hypocrites.

So, you reject the possibility that reality comports with inspiration?

[Wade Englund]

8 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

If this was even remotely true, people like Joseph Bishop would never be called as MTC President. 

That may be true in a binary (black and white) world. But, that isn't the world I inhabit. Where I live there is a broad range of shades and values and even colors.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Wade Englund]

7 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

Just to clarify, do you mean that those who have the constant companionship can recognize others who also have the constant companionship?

To varying degrees, yes.

Thanks, -Wade ENglund-

[SeekingUnderstanding]

6 minutes ago, Wade Englund said:

That may be true in a binary (black and white) world. But, that isn't the world I inhabit. Where I live there is a broad range of shades and values and even colors.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

So you can tell except when you can’t? That sounds exactly like me except I most certainly do not have the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost. Sometimes I get things right when I judge someone’s character and sometimes I don’t. 

[Wade Englund]

6 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

So you can tell except when you can’t? T

No. Again, that would be the case in a binary world. That isn't the world I inhabit.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Kenngo1969]

On 4/9/2019 at 9:15 PM, katherine the great said:

The only person I have ever known who even attempted this drove everyone else crazy.  Mission papers sat on his desk for weeks while he waited for a definite prompting from the Holy Ghost to send them in. Temple recommends went unsigned until he had the time to pray and ponder over it. Important ward business took a backseat to his own spirituality. People were inconvenienced right and left while he was in preparation to have the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost. And in the meantime, life happens.

It's a good thing this leader wasn't my leader, because if I had been the one to, e.g., seek a Temple recommend from him, and if he had told me, "I need the Holy Spirit's guidance before I can sign your recommend," I would have said, "It came with your mantle when you were ordained and/or set apart.  Now, sign the damn  thing!"    

[MiserereNobis]

9 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

Interestingly, I was reading an article today about Thomas Merton, the Trappist monk, who attained some degree of notoriety with several books he wrote and which you might be familiar.  Regardless, after serving decades as a monk and becoming a sought out individual, he had an affair with a twenty-five year old woman (he was in his fifties at the time). This stunned me. I would have never thought it possible for one that had progressed so far. The point is, one might be holy this year or for an extended period of time, but humans never stop being human.

Thomas Merton was pivotal in my conversion to Catholicism. While I would never be in favor of sin, there was something comforting about the fact that even the great ones stumble and have weaknesses. I knew this about him (it was his nurse while in the hospital this one time) while reading his many books and it helped me see the world not through a lens of worthiness, but through a lens of the atonement of Christ and the mercy of God. I still have to strive, yes, and work and try, yes, but my connection to God isn't reliant upon my worthiness, but upon the mercy and grace of God. That is quite comforting and peaceful because it removes the weight of unhealthy guilt and perfectionism.

Peter denied Christ three times. Paul had the thorn in his flesh. We all struggle and fall, from those first encountering God to those who have known Him deeply. Hence the atonement, praise be to God.

Edited April 11, 2019 by MiserereNobis

[MiserereNobis]

I've always been a bit puzzled about the LDS gift of the Holy Ghost, constant companionship, etc. My question has been what is the difference between an LDS experience of the Holy Ghost and a non-LDS experience? And how can you know that your experience with the Holy Ghost is somehow better or longer than those of others?

@Wade Englund says you recognize it by the person's fruit and countenance. Is that the LDS view or is it his personal one?

It seems a bit presumptuous to say that LDS have a stronger (or whatever superlative you want to use) experience of the Holy Ghost when it is quite impossible to compare your experience with others.

How does this work, really? What is special about your experience compared to others and how do you know that it is special?