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Time is running out

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23 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

According to Pres. Packer we have plenty of time.

Maybe Pres. Nelson was speaking personally.  He is in his 90s.

But it was nice to be reminded our religion is a millennialist last days one.

well, sort of...but not like it used to be.

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said:

If he didn't understand it that way, why does the verse say wars?

Because he thought global violence would erupt beginning with conflicts in South Carolina in the 1830s.

EDIT: The Revelations in Context chapter on D&C 87 is pretty good on this:
 

Quote

The peaceful resolution of the crisis pleased everyone but the most ardent firebrands. As a follower of Christ, Joseph Smith loved peace and welcomed compromise, and he looked forward to the return of the Prince of Peace and His peaceful millennial reign. But the dire predictions contained in the prophecy on war, tied as they were to contemporary events, must have puzzled Joseph. The death and misery of many souls did not occur. The Southern states continued to be divided against the North over the question of slavery, but the slaves did not rise up against their masters, and South Carolina did not call on Great Britain for help.15 Anyone looking for the fulfillment of the revelation in 1833 would have been disappointed.

Joseph Smith seemed reluctant to spread news of his prophecy on war too widely. Even before the crisis had been averted, he told a newspaper editor that he was sure “not many years shall pass away before the United States shall present such a scene of bloodshed as has not a parallel in the history of our nation.”16 But he did not get any more specific than that. He did not mention South Carolina in his later teachings and sermons. When he compiled his revelations for publication in 1835, Joseph withheld Doctrine and Covenants 87 from the collection. After the nullification crisis ended peacefully, it seemed best to set the revelation aside during his lifetime.17

 

Edited by the narrator

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1 hour ago, Wade Englund said:

One of the advantages of vague statements like "time is running out," is the winnowing effect. For ardent believers, it can be a call to step up efforts for good. Whereas, for the ardent disbelievers, it may give cause for complacency or increased discontent, and numerous permutations in between.  To each their own.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Or it may just be teachings to keep us all in line?

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1 hour ago, Teancum said:

Or it may just be teachings to keep us all in line?

Are you saying that Pres. Nelson doesn’t really believe it but is using it to manipulate the members?

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39 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Are you saying that Pres. Nelson doesn’t really believe it but is using it to manipulate the members?

I think he likely believes it.  But these types of teachings evolve in religion to keep members in line. I have heard all of my almost 60 years how the end is nigh. As a kid and teen I was told I was one of the elect, held back to the last days, a Saturday warrior. These types of things have been around since Jesus's day.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Teancum said:

I think he likely believes it.  But these types of teachings evolve in religion to keep members in line. I have heard all of my almost 60 years how the end is nigh. As a kid and teen I was told I was one of the elect, held back to the last days, a Saturday warrior. These types of things have been around since Jesus's day.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez  says we have about 12 years left.  It will not be only religious people that will be proclaiming the end is nigh. The left is beating the drums louder and louder.

Edited by carbon dioxide

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4 minutes ago, Teancum said:

I think he likely believes it.  But these types of teachings evolve in religion to keep members in line. I have heard all of my almost 60 years how the end is nigh. As a kid and teen I was told I was one of the elect, held back to the last days, a Saturday warrior. These types of things have been around since Jesus's day.

If someone believes it, then how can they be saying it to "keep people in line?"  I'm not sure what you are saying exactly.  Do you mean that someone said it in the past to manipulate people and then others have continued to say it because they sincerely believed the first one?

I appreciated the talk that followed this one where the speaker (I can't remember the name I'll have to look it up) reminded everyone that when God says 'the end is nigh' that could still be hundreds of years from now.  For the vast majority of us, time is running out simply means that (because we are human and all literally dying), we could be having our 'second coming' any day.

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15 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez  says we have about 12 years left.  It will not be only religious people that will be proclaiming the end is nigh. The left is beating the drums louder and louder.

Not sure what AOC has to do with this topic.

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49 minutes ago, Teancum said:

I think he likely believes it.  But these types of teachings evolve in religion to keep members in line. I have heard all of my almost 60 years how the end is nigh. As a kid and teen I was told I was one of the elect, held back to the last days, a Saturday warrior. These types of things have been around since Jesus's day.

The studies of Azim Shared underline this. He proposes that religion is a cultural evolution to encourage prosocial behavior.

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9 hours ago, SouthernMo said:

Maybe. What would you do differently if you knew when Christ will come again?  Would you step up or step down your efforts?

I would do the same as I am doing now after being told that "time is running out."  I am attempting to step up my efforts.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

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8 hours ago, Teancum said:

Or it may just be teachings to keep us all in line?

That is entirely unnecessary for those who correctly understand the gospel. Love is its own very powerful motive to "keep us in line." 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

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14 minutes ago, Wade Englund said:

I would do the same as I am doing now after being told that "time is running out."  I am attempting to step up my efforts.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

So it doesn’t make a difference, then.

A prophecy without a purpose.

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21 minutes ago, SouthernMo said:

So it doesn’t make a difference, then.

A prophecy without a purpose.

That isn't how I view it,  but you are entitled to your opinion.

Thanks, -Wade Enlgund-

 

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, the narrator said:

Because he thought global violence would erupt beginning with conflicts in South Carolina in the 1830s.

EDIT: The Revelations in Context chapter on D&C 87 is pretty good on this:
 

 

You left out the Paul Harvey type rest-of-the-story conclusion that Jed Woodworth put on his “Revelations in Context” treatise, recounting how Joseph’s prophecy on war was vindicated 30 years later with the eruption of the Civil War. Since the fulfillment came after Joseph’s lifetime, the prophecy is all the more remarkable than if it had been tied to the nullification crisis which, at the time,  seemed to be the obvious and immediate application of the prophecy, but an application destined to fail.

Woodworth writes:

“Three decades after Doctrine and Covenants 87 was received, South Carolina rebelled again. Convinced that Abraham Lincoln’s election as U.S. president spelled trouble for the institution of slavery, the state legislature voted to secede from the United States. South Carolina’s move triggered a war between North and South. Much death and misery resulted. Southerners called on Great Britain for help. Slaves rose up against their masters. All the while, the Saints, now in their new mountain home in the West, toiled away on the foundations of yet another holy place —the Salt Lake Temple.”

it’s an interesting illustration of the contrast between mortal myopia and divine, prophetic perspective. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd
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5 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

You left out the Paul Harvey type rest-of-the-story conclusion that Jed Woodworth put on his “Revelations in Context” treatise, recounting how Joseph’s prophecy on war was vindicated 30 years later with the eruption of the Civil War.

I didn't because it's irrelevant to my point of how Joseph believed in the early 1830s that the violence preceding the second coming was immanent and that the Zion in Missouri would be one of the only places where a person could gain protection from the violence.

Also, I completely disagree with my distant cousins's assessment of its fulfillment. The violence did not spread out in the way and time that the revelation indicates, the slaves did not revolt as it predicted (I've heard some apologists claiming it was actually referring to "slaves of communism" revolting during the Cold War), and refuge from the world wars was not found in a city in Missouri.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/10/2019 at 8:06 AM, Scott Lloyd said:

When one is speaking of events preceding or attendant to the Second Coming, terms that reflect it being “near” or “close at hand” or such are apt to be relative. Consider that the Restoration began just under 200 years ago with the First Vision in 1820. That’s  not very long in terms of the history of the world or of scriptural time frames or of God’s dealings with mankind. 

Furthermore, I view Joseph’s prophecies on war as referring not just to a single isolated event as we with myopic understanding might regard the Civil War, but rather as a long and incessant panorama of war and bloodshed that would plague the earth beginning with the Civil War and extending to the judgments that would be poured out on the earth immediately prior to the return of the Son of God in glory. 

 

Do you really think that a long and incessant panorama of war and bloodshed that would plague the earth beginning with the Civil War?  It didn't take the civil war to start a cycle of endless wars.  There has never been a time in history where there hasn't been a war going on somewhere in the world. We have even had a single war that lasted for 100 years. To put. that in perspective, think what it would have been like if the Civil war didn't end until 1961.  

I think it would be a very myopic view to hold that incessant panorama of wars started with the Civil War.

Edited by california boy
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On 4/10/2019 at 7:00 PM, SouthernMo said:

The studies of Azim Shared underline this. He proposes that religion is a cultural evolution to encourage prosocial behavior.

Counterpoint: Many religions run counter to the prevailing society.

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11 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Counterpoint: Many religions run counter to the prevailing society.

What do you mean?

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On 4/11/2019 at 10:31 AM, california boy said:

Do you really think that a long and incessant panorama of war and bloodshed that would plague the earth beginning with the Civil War?  It didn't take the civil war to start a cycle of endless wars.  There has never been a time in history where there hasn't been a war going on somewhere in the world. We have even had a single war that lasted for 100 years. To put. that in perspective, think what it would have been like if the Civil war didn't end until 1961.  

I think it would be a very myopic view to hold that incessant panorama of wars started with the Civil War.

Do you really think I’m so stupid as to say or imply that all war began with the Civil War? That would be a patently absurd thing to say; please give me more credit than that.

I meant that in the context of a prophecy of future events, a prophecy revealed near the dawn of the dispensation of the fullness of times, the Civil War was identified as a beginning marker for what would transpire <from that point on> during this dispensation. Is it really so hard to grasp that meaning?

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4 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Do you really think I’m so stupid as to say or imply that all war began with the Civil War? That would be a patently absurd thing to say; please give me more credit than that.

I meant that in the context of a prophecy of future events, a prophecy revealed near the dawn of the dispensation of the fullness of times, the Civil War was identified as a beginning marker for what would transpire <from that point on> during this dispensation. Is it really so hard to grasp that meaning?

When you miscommunicate, it doesn’t make you look better when you blame someone else.

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On 4/9/2019 at 10:46 AM, Avatar4321 said:

Ive been listening to Sunday morning session this morning. Two things have really stuck out.

1) President Nelson’s statement that time is running out. What does he mean?

2) Elder Christofferson’s talk on preparing for the second coming.

how do we prepare for the second coming exactly?

There was a thread on all the prophecies that still needed to be fulfilled before the second coming - it was an older thread, cannot find it now?  

The gospel needs to be preached to every part of the world.

Congregations of saints must be found all over the earth.

Church headquarters must be moved to Missouri.

The sun must be darkened, the moon turned to blood, and the stars fall from the sky.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/matt/24?lang=eng

Quote

1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3 ¶ And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, ....

Edited by changed

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4 hours ago, changed said:

There was a thread on all the prophecies that still needed to be fulfilled before the second coming - it was an older thread, cannot find it now?  

The gospel needs to be preached to every part of the world.

Congregations of saints must be found all over the earth.

Church headquarters must be moved to Missouri.

The sun must be darkened, the moon turned to blood, and the stars fall from the sky.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/matt/24?lang=eng

I've never heard the one about the church headquarters being moved to Missouri.  Can you share the reference?

I think we're probably all ready there in terms of having the gospel preached to every part of the world, thanks the internet.  I would be very surprised if we also didn't already have congregations all over the world.

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1 hour ago, bluebell said:

I've never heard the one about the church headquarters being moved to Missouri.  Can you share the reference?

I think we're probably all ready there in terms of having the gospel preached to every part of the world, thanks the internet.  I would be very surprised if we also didn't already have congregations all over the world.

When I was in college I used to use the BYU gym regularly. Some guy came up and asked me once why I worked out (?) and I snarkily replied that I wanted to be strong enough to carry my babies to Missiouri if needed. 

He left me alone. 

Incidentally I also met my husband at the gym. He was more polite. 

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I remember my parents efforts to collect and store a year's supply of food for our large family. We had 55 gallon drums of dry milk, hundreds of large cans of beans, oatmeal, dried vegetables, home canned fruits, and the wheat. Oh did we have wheat! Back then, we bought it in square 5 gallon metal containers that were stored out in the garage. We literally had a ton of wheat in the garage. My mom was constantly grinding it for flour and making the most fantastic homemade wheat bread, and if we were lucky, homemade scones. The smell of fresh baked bread still brings back memories of that house.

 

Fast forward over a half century, my parents have moved four times since then, once back and forth across the country, lugging those cans with them each time they moved. Mom has since passed away and dad is getting up in years and my siblings and I are discussing what do we do with all this wheat? I plan using President Nelson's latest talk to convince my more conservative siblings of the blessings they will receive if they start hauling it around. 😉

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1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

When I was in college I used to use the BYU gym regularly. Some guy came up and asked me once why I worked out (?) and I snarkily replied that I wanted to be strong enough to carry my babies to Missiouri if needed. 

He left me alone. 

Incidentally I also met my husband at the gym. He was more polite. 

😂

I’ve definitely heard the rumor about having to go back to Missouri but I’ve never heard that it had to happen before the second coming. 

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