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Avatar4321

Time is running out

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8 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

Ive been listening to Sunday morning session this morning. Two things have really stuck out.

1) President Nelson’s statement that time is running out. What does he mean?

2) Elder Christofferson’s talk on preparing for the second coming.

how do we prepare for the second coming exactly?

Time is always running out regardless of the issue.  We are all one day closer to death than yesterday.  We are all one day closer to WW3 than yesterday and so forth.  Time is running out on wicked and those who refuse to come to Christ. Depression, war, famine, plagues, and everything else we will have to endure through before the 2nd Coming.  As much as we need to prepare for Christ coming, we also need to prepare for all the stuff that will occur before that happens. 

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3 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

According to Pres. Packer we have plenty of time.

Plenty of time for what? 

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, the narrator said:

Cool, because in his 1833 letter to Noah Saxton, Joseph seems pretty sure that it was imminent:
 

I guess the lesson we can learn from Jesus, Paul, Joseph Smith, and everyone else who proclaimed that the second coming was right around the corner is that it's mostly hyperbole and probably aint happening for a really long time if ever.

So I made the effort to read your quotation in context (a good practice I have found when one is dealing with critics of the Church of Jesus Christ). Are you claiming, then, that Joseph was saying here that the Second Coming would occur within the lifetimes of some who were then living? Because I don’t see that that necessarily follows. Rather, I read the antecedent as being unparalleled bloodshed and destruction poured out upon the nation before some then living had died, an event easily fulfilled by the occurrence of the American Civil War

Edited by Scott Lloyd

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13 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

how do we prepare for the second coming exactly?

By participating in the gathering of Israel. At least that is what I have gathered from various addresses by Pres. Nelson and other General Authorities..

Thanks -Wade Englund-

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Time is not running out.

Mosiah 4:27 It is not requisite that a man should run faster than he has strength. And again, it is expedient that he should be diligent.

The ages that have and are still unfolding on this beautiful planet have always been within the setting of the rolling of eternity; and hopefully what we have to look forward to is a greater awareness, a thinner veil.  This greater Spirit (the fire that will burn the earth) will instruct and enlighten everyone at the place they are at.  That greater clarity will lead many to sorrow for their weakness and blindness and how they have been damaged and who they have damaged (etc), but that sorrow will only leave more room for their next steps of healing.

I am reminded of Gadiantons who had the greatest and most precious and most lasting of conversions; when they were preached to in the prisons by the Lamanites (who otherwise cleared them out of their government and establishments) and then were released upon their agreement and repentance; and the glorious miracle in the prison with brothers Lehi and Nephi where they all experienced the glory of God.

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Posted (edited)

I didn´t watch it and only skimmed a bit of some summaries and this still jumped out at me, both ¨the end is near¨ and ¨second coming¨ which I really just took as referring to the same thing.

It almost makes me wonder about Nelson´s approach to his position - between the many changes (which are explicitly pointed to as evidence of continued revelation by the leadership) and now this clichéd but very prophetic-sounding reference to the end and the second coming - it almost seems like Nelson is (intentionally?) behaving more ¨prophet-like¨ than some of his predecessors. 

Edited by Joshua Valentine

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

According to Pres. Packer we have plenty of time.

Maybe Pres. Nelson was speaking personally.  He is in his 90s.

But it was nice to be reminded our religion is a millennialist last days one.

Elder Packers talk said to not worry about the second coming and live regular, happy lives and most importantly have children.  I think pres Nelson when speaking about how time is running out is speaking of his own life and his upcoming meeting with Jesus.

Edited by blueglass
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9 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

So I made the effort to read your quotation in context (a good practice I have found when one is dealing with critics of the Church of Jesus Christ). Are you claiming, then, that Joseph was saying here that the Second Coming would occur within the lifetimes of some who were then living? Because I don’t see that that necessarily follows. Rather, I read the antecedent as being unparalleled bloodshed and destruction poured out upon the nation before some then living had died, an event easily fulfilled by the occurrence of the American Civil War

For good measure, read the entire letter and the JSP staff's introduction. During this time, it is abundantly clear that JS saw the calamities preceding the Second Coming to be very near, particularly with news of potential violence in South Carolina that would quickly (not 3 decades later) erupt into not just a civil war but a calamitous world war wherein the only place of safety would be within the new Zion that JS was hoping to establish in Missouri at the time. That Joseph believed it to be very imminent is clear from his frustration that Saxton did not publish the letter of warning in its entirety.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, the narrator said:

For good measure, read the entire letter and the JSP staff's introduction. During this time, it is abundantly clear that JS saw the calamities preceding the Second Coming to be very near, particularly with news of potential violence in South Carolina that would quickly (not 3 decades later) erupt into not just a civil war but a calamitous world war wherein the only place of safety would be within the new Zion that JS was hoping to establish in Missouri at the time. That Joseph believed it to be very imminent is clear from his frustration that Saxton did not publish the letter of warning in its entirety.

When one is speaking of events preceding or attendant to the Second Coming, terms that reflect it being “near” or “close at hand” or such are apt to be relative. Consider that the Restoration began just under 200 years ago with the First Vision in 1820. That’s  not very long in terms of the history of the world or of scriptural time frames or of God’s dealings with mankind. 

Furthermore, I view Joseph’s prophecies on war as referring not just to a single isolated event as we with myopic understanding might regard the Civil War, but rather as a long and incessant panorama of war and bloodshed that would plague the earth beginning with the Civil War and extending to the judgments that would be poured out on the earth immediately prior to the return of the Son of God in glory. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd
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1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I view Joseph’s prophecies on war as referring not just to a single isolated event....

That's cool and all, but that's clearly not how Joseph understood it. But, hey, like Jesus, Paul, and everyone else who thought it was around the corner, I'm quite fine with Joseph being wrong.

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5 minutes ago, the narrator said:

That's cool and all, but that's clearly not how Joseph understood it. But, hey, like Jesus, Paul, and everyone else who thought it was around the corner, I'm quite fine with Joseph being wrong.

Can we apply the same rationale to the talks that President Nelson and Elder Christopherson gave? Were they also speaking in terms of the history of the world or scriptural time frames? If so we have lots of time to prepare, right?

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46 minutes ago, CA Steve said:

Can we apply the same rationale to the talks that President Nelson and Elder Christopherson gave? Were they also speaking in terms of the history of the world or scriptural time frames? If so we have lots of time to prepare, right?

Yes.

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On 4/9/2019 at 9:46 AM, Avatar4321 said:

how do we prepare for the second coming exactly?

If you want to do it right you need to build a compound for your family out of steel shipping containers, equipped with a bomb shelter.  Go completely off the grid.    Dig a well.  Stock up on a fuel supply.  You need a 30 year food supply.  Load up on hunting rifles and assault rifles (just in case).  I have an anti-plague herbal tincture recipe I can share that a superbug/fungus stands no chance against.  Oh ya, and plant a garden and pay your tithing.

Make Zion great again!

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14 minutes ago, pogi said:

If you want to do it right you need to build a compound for your family out of steel shipping containers, equipped with a bomb shelter.  Go completely off the grid.    Dig a well.  Stock up on a fuel supply.  You need a 30 year food supply.  Load up on hunting rifles and assault rifles (just in case).  I have an anti-plague herbal tincture recipe I can share that a superbug/fungus stands no chance against.  Oh ya, and plant a garden and pay your tithing.

Make Zion great again!

In other words - be a weirdo! 

But I really think that being physically prepared is one of the hallmarks of our religion - be self sufficient.  It's a quality I'm proud of - but admittedly I have to shop every three days because I"m a poor food planner.  But I own my own home and have no debts.  I lived on my savings and own food for over a year of unemployment ten years ago.  That felt good.  

As I watch people close to me die, I am reminded that spiritual priorities such as love and faith are the most important things to focus on in life.  So when time is running out, due to old age, or illness, or tragedy, or second coming, all I need to do is ask myself, are my priorities in check?   

For the record, mine are completely whack right now.  I admit that.  Conference was a good reminder to get my head out of the world so much and into things that have eternal implications.  It's depressing and hopeful and scary and enlightening.  It's easier to believe that nothing matters, when there's so much work to be done to be ready to die. 

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2 hours ago, the narrator said:

That's cool and all, but that's clearly not how Joseph understood it. But, hey, like Jesus, Paul, and everyone else who thought it was around the corner, I'm quite fine with Joseph being wrong.

I don’t know that that’s not how Joseph understood it. I don’t think you can know that either. And it’s not self-evident that Jesus and Paul we’re wrong. 

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On 4/9/2019 at 10:23 AM, the narrator said:

Don't you mean since the 1st century, when Paul thought it was just around the corner?

"This generation"...

It comes for each of us, in this generation. 

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1 hour ago, the narrator said:

Yes.

Yes, a lifetime

;)

 

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Scripture is is not a history book, but is for our lives, today.

 

 

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2 hours ago, CA Steve said:

Can we apply the same rationale to the talks that President Nelson and Elder Christopherson gave? Were they also speaking in terms of the history of the world or scriptural time frames? If so we have lots of time to prepare, right?

What specific statements from President Nelson and Elder Christofferson do you have in mind? What was the context? Does it compare to the context of Joseph Smith’s statements? Can you justify your answer? 

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These second coming or end of days or rapture prophecies are odd to me. Pointless?

If I knew Christ would come tomorrow or in a million years, how would I live my life differently?  I’m not sure I would; I’d work to serve others and find peace regardless.

How does knowing when (or even if) the second coming will happen help mankind?

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One of the advantages of vague statements like "time is running out," is the winnowing effect. For ardent believers, it can be a call to step up efforts for good. Whereas, for the ardent disbelievers, it may give cause for complacency or increased discontent, and numerous permutations in between.  To each their own.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

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4 minutes ago, Wade Englund said:

One of the advantages of vague statements like "time is running out," is the winnowing effect. For ardent believers, it can be a call to step up efforts for good. Whereas, for the ardent disbelievers, it may give cause for complacency or increased discontent, and numerous permutations in between.  To each their own.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Maybe. What would you do differently if you knew when Christ will come again?  Would you step up or step down your efforts?

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On 4/9/2019 at 11:46 AM, Avatar4321 said:

Ive been listening to Sunday morning session this morning. Two things have really stuck out.

1) President Nelson’s statement that time is running out. What does he mean?

2) Elder Christofferson’s talk on preparing for the second coming.

how do we prepare for the second coming exactly?

Time has been running out for 2000 years.  Jesus taught it was running out. We just spin those passages in the NT now because its clear it wasn't running out then.  Paul thought so as well. Many have come and gone preaching the end was nigh. Really the Church that most of us here are members of started out with the idea that the end was very close, and that in the lifetime of its founder.  I am not worried. 

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3 hours ago, the narrator said:

That's cool and all, but that's clearly not how Joseph understood it. But, hey, like Jesus, Paul, and everyone else who thought it was around the corner, I'm quite fine with Joseph being wrong.

If he didn't understand it that way, why does the verse say wars?

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23 hours ago, Burnside said:

The Earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

People won’t if they don’t repent and enter into Covenants in this life; unless they plan on hanging out in Spirit Prison and having someone do their work for them in the Temple. Pres Nelson mentioned that in General Conference as well, and implied it was foolish.

Thus time is running out.

Who cares about the stupid glaciers. They’ll be renewed. Or melt at the Second Coming.

When people use religion in this way I find it good evidence that religion can be a dangerous thing.

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