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JAHS

Conference protesters

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What I don't understand is why it was so hurtful to be considered an apostate when you make the conscious decision to marry someone of the same sex vs. giving into temptation? Is it less upsetting to be excommunicated for breaking the law of chastity? I think the real hurt was that people were hoping the church would take a step towards embracing same sex marriage and did the opposite. 

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13 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Is there data to support the idea that someone committed suicide because they (as a minor) or their children couldn't be baptized?

I have a feeling that for most baptism was not the issue;  The issue was that the policy  was something the church did to further distance itself from these families and children. To add insult to injury so to speak. 
 

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46 minutes ago, JAHS said:

I have a feeling that for most baptism was not the issue;  The issue was that the policy  was something the church did to further distance itself from these families and children. To add insult to injury so to speak. 
 

Then the deduction is not the policy that would have driven an individual to commit suicide, but that the Church of Jesus Christ remains firmly against all sexual expression outside the bounds that God has set. 

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19 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:
1 hour ago, JAHS said:

I have a feeling that for most baptism was not the issue;  The issue was that the policy  was something the church did to further distance itself from these families and children. To add insult to injury so to speak. 
 

Then the deduction is not the policy that would have driven an individual to commit suicide, but that the Church of Jesus Christ remains firmly against all sexual expression outside the bounds that God has set. 

Right and the church can not change that doctrine, nor will it ever change it. But how can suicides be prevented because of it? 

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It is not out of the range of possibilities that the idea that one couldn't keep church membership and marry a same sex partner, or be together with family  could have been part of the feeling of hopelessness or unworthiness or non-belonging that sometimes end up in suicide.

It is also not out of the range of possibilities that when a young person hears LGBT+ activists suggest that it is impossible to be gay and also a faithful and loving church member could fuel that feeling of hopelessness or unworthiness or non-belong that sometimes ends up in suicide.

How can we know about what ultimately would have prevented even one suicide?    Maybe that is why this conference is all about becoming more of a disciple of Jesus Christ and caring about those who struggle.

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 It’s an art to care about others and their emotional well being.  Not everyone is gifted that way. I think we were well taught by the apostles on how we should treat each other.  I have work to do. 

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On 4/7/2019 at 1:57 PM, JAHS said:

Right and the church can not change that doctrine, nor will it ever change it. But how can suicides be prevented because of it? 

I fail to see how that is the Church's responsibility.
They do have a responsibility to minister and administer to the sick and the sinner.  That they must do.
But the Church is not responsible when the weight of sin leads to despair.  They minister the best they can by offering a path to repentance.

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On 4/7/2019 at 2:57 PM, JAHS said:

Right and the church can not change that doctrine, nor will it ever change it. But how can suicides be prevented because of it? 

They probably cannot be. Some may despair and kill themselves. That is the consequence of only understanding the Law and little to nothing of the Savior.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

I fail to see how that is the Church's responsibility.
They do have a responsibility to minister and administer to the sick and the sinner.  That they must do.

What is a reasonable expectation of what the Church might do to minister to the meek and vulnerable of our faith and among our neighbors in order to help address lowering risks/vulnerabilities to suicide?  I have a few novel ideas based on the science...

They could start gathering family medical history along with the names and start giving genetic counsel on who you should marry to minimize genetic vulnerability in your children. (Could be be significant if generic vulnerabilities are 47% or so iirc).  No one would mind having church leaders assign or deny temple marriages based on potential genetic risk to children...right?   And when they finally target those people with actual genes that contribute to vulnerability, they can be sterilized until gene manipulation removed the risk. There is never too much we can do to save a vulnerable life?

Quote

Focusing on distantly-related suicides in 43 high-risk families provides a more genetically homogenous group that amplifies the genetic risks of suicide while minimizing shared environmental effects, such as stresses due to divorce or unemployment, or easy access to lethal means. The families' genealogical information extends back nine generations.

"In this study, we began by looking for the low hanging fruit, the genomic changes that could affect the structure or function of a gene," Coon said. "We think these results are just the tip of the iceberg. We will continue to search for additional gene changes that lead to risk."

The researchers looked for genetic variation in more than 1,300 DNA samples obtained from the Utah Office of the Medical Examiner from individuals who died by suicide in the state. These samples represent a subset of a much larger resource of more than 6,000 suicide cases with DNA. The team linked the DNA results to the Utah Population database, which contains the genealogical and recent medical records from more than eight million people, as well as death certificates dating back to 1904.

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2018-11/uouh-etg111618.php

So much the Church could do with just their genealogical services slightly altered and an additional question or two and maybe  DNA test for a temple recommend; since we have no legal way to push people not to marry, temple restriction will be the only option to actively prevent suicides in future generations.  I am quite surprised the LGBT and other suicide prevention activists are not pounding at our doors demanding this.  Nothing could be more important than preventing the deaths of our youth.

Edited by Calm
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Posted (edited)
Quote

Here are some sobering statistics. Between 2009 and 2017, the number of high schoolers who contemplated suicide reportedly increased by 25 percent. Deaths by suicide among teens increased by 33 percent in that time period as well. Suicide is now the second leading cause of death among teens after accidents (traffic, poisoning, drownings, etc). But don’t be mistaken: Teen suicide is still rare. Just 10 out of 100,000 teens ages 15 through 19 die this way. But even a single death is one too many.

Glad to see an effort at presenting the data in context here.

Too small a study to do much beyond what if, but if the hints are even close....

What they do is have kids find 4 adults in their lives that care enough about them to go take continuing ed and suicide prevention, the adults are trained so they can provide support and training for the youth...The hardest thing for many might be finding 4 adults willing to stick around long enough to make a difference...but what if you had a whole ward full of adults already committed to being there for youth?

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2019/2/28/18234667/teen-suicide-prevention

 

Edited by Calm

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Posted (edited)

Increase of suicide numbers from 56-93 possible increase availability and use of alcohol among youth.

Possible increase of suicide numbers from mid 90's on may be due in part to the increased exposure to the ideas of suicide floating around almost constantly 'out there' now in some communities such that these ideas are getting taken in by vulnerable youth to 'in here'?

Edited by Calm
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When will those who helped perpetuate this cruel hoax that the church was responsible for teen suicides be held accountable?  Opportunists and faith crisis actors took advantage of grieving families to fan the flames of anger and misinformation in the church community.  How many families left the church after being getting caught up in the outrage from activists instead of seeking peace and solace in the temples of the Lord? How will those involved who remained in the church repair the damage they have done to the faith and testimonies of others?

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8 minutes ago, Calm said:

I am sorry if my posts took your thread off topic ( tell me if you feel that way and I will go quiet, no problem), I saw it as on topic because I I get very frustrated when I see this type of protestor making accusations of cause based on anecdotes

Your posts are very much on topic.

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On 4/9/2019 at 5:41 AM, gopher said:

When will those who helped perpetuate this cruel hoax that the church was responsible for teen suicides be held accountable?  Opportunists and faith crisis actors took advantage of grieving families to fan the flames of anger and misinformation in the church community.  How many families left the church after being getting caught up in the outrage from activists instead of seeking peace and solace in the temples of the Lord? How will those involved who remained in the church repair the damage they have done to the faith and testimonies of others?

Are you calling for an Inquisition here?

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17 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Are you calling for an Inquisition here?

Not a bad idea.  We have the organization already in place with the Honor Code Office.

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On 4/9/2019 at 3:41 AM, gopher said:

When will those who helped perpetuate this cruel hoax that the church was responsible for teen suicides be held accountable?  Opportunists and faith crisis actors took advantage of grieving families to fan the flames of anger and misinformation in the church community.  How many families left the church after being getting caught up in the outrage from activists instead of seeking peace and solace in the temples of the Lord? How will those involved who remained in the church repair the damage they have done to the faith and testimonies of others?

Oh I don’t know, that sounds maybe a little mockery ish.  

Maybe you don’t personally know anyone who has suicided or anyone who has battled painfully with testimony issues recently over the churches culture and position over homosexuality. 

I have a lot of love for many who struggled. 

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7 hours ago, gopher said:

Not a bad idea.  We have the organization already in place with the Honor Code Office.

Do they have Iron Maiden’s and racks we can borrow?

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On 4/9/2019 at 4:41 AM, gopher said:

When will those who helped perpetuate this cruel hoax that the church was responsible for teen suicides be held accountable?  Opportunists and faith crisis actors took advantage of grieving families to fan the flames of anger and misinformation in the church community.  How many families left the church after being getting caught up in the outrage from activists instead of seeking peace and solace in the temples of the Lord? How will those involved who remained in the church repair the damage they have done to the faith and testimonies of others?

No hoax, true story. 

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20 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Do they have Iron Maiden’s and racks we can borrow?

That would be cool if they did...

giphy.gif

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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

Oh I don’t know, that sounds maybe a little mockery ish.  

Maybe you don’t personally know anyone who has suicided or anyone who has battled painfully with testimony issues recently over the churches culture and position over homosexuality. 

I have a lot of love for many who struggled. 

I'm afraid you didn't understand my post at all.  I wasn't mocking family and friends who have struggled with suicide or testimony issues over culture or positions over homosexuality.  I was only calling out those evil people among the protesters who have evil designs in their hearts to inflict further misery on those who struggle. If you wish to defend them, I promise I won't judge you.

I also have a great amount of love for those who struggled.  I guess we'll just have to disagree to agree.

Edited by gopher
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