Popular Post MustardSeed Posted April 7, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 7, 2019 If anyone trying to get people to shed their stubbornness or resistance to gospel truths is frustrated I would suggest studying the presidents manner of teaching. I have never felt so inspired to make changes than I have by the prophet today. I feel his genuine love and concern. This is what makes people truly change... imo of course. Great session. 9 Link to comment
Tacenda Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 President Nelson's talk was touching while speaking of his daughter Wendy, loved it. He's a good man, but at the end of the talk he speaks of those members that are on the outside, he speaks as if these people haven't tried or is quite amazed at those those that do not want to take the steps to exaltation. But what he doesn't get nor most TBM's, is that those that do not want to do this, see something wrong with the picture. Or the path. But TBM's that watch this will be so heartsick at their loved ones taking this supposedly wrong path. And if they remember Sister Banks talk they'll think it's the devil that's gotten to their loved ones. Thus, it just drives wedges amongst family members. I've tried to watch with an open mind and open heart, but it's these talks that cause problems, perhaps even divorces among the part member or part believing family members. In any other faith it's not a church it's just the Savior. Or it's another belief but under a creator. On another note, I watched Pres. Eyring and my heart goes out to him and his wife, as I see Pres. Nelson and Oaks be taken by the hands/arms of their wives and walking off the podium area, while Pres. Eyring is alone. Link to comment
Kenngo1969 Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 49 minutes ago, The Nehor said: They are not soft-pedaling the reality of the Second Coming. Loving it! You need to decide if you're riding a bike, or if you're selling something. And as you approach a steep hill, I would strongly advise that you not try to surmount that steep hill by soft-pedaling. I don't think that will work. (Sorry; Couldn't resist!) Link to comment
Popular Post SteveO Posted April 7, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, Tacenda said: But what he doesn't get nor most TBM's, is that those that do not want to do this, see something wrong with the picture. Or the path. But TBM's that watch this will be so heartsick at their loved ones taking this supposedly wrong path. He gets it. And he said what people “that do not want to do this” needed to hear. You may not like it, but that’s the job of the prophet. Pay the price. 6 Link to comment
Popular Post Kenngo1969 Posted April 7, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 7, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Tacenda said: President Nelson's talk was touching while speaking of his daughter Wendy, loved it. He's a good man, but at the end of the talk he speaks of those members that are on the outside, he speaks as if these people haven't tried or is quite amazed at those those that do not want to take the steps to exaltation. I must've missed something. You heard a different talk than I did, because he gave a specific example of someone who wanted to have Temple ordinances performed for himself and his wife after his passing (why express that desire if he didn't think the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ is true or if he didn't think those ordinances are effectual?) but, at the same time, didn't want to bother paying the price in this life to have those blessings. On the other hand, it seems to me (and you're welcome to correct me if I'm wrong) that many of the people of whom you are speaking have reached the opposite conclusion regarding the truth of the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ and of the efficacy of the associated ordinances (as is their right). If someone doesn't value the organization or what the organization offers, or if she sees those things differently than someone else does, why worry about what people inside the organization think? I could get upset that Satanists or Baptists or Scientologists think I will meet [insert-fate-here] if I don't accept what those organizations offer, but what's the point? Live your life. Do what you think is right. Pursue happiness as you understand it. The number of organizations I haven't been a part of dwarfs the number of organizations I have been a part of, and whose causes and tenets I agree with. I worry only about my standing in the latter, not my standing in the former. Edited April 7, 2019 by Kenngo1969 5 Link to comment
Popular Post MustardSeed Posted April 7, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 7, 2019 13 minutes ago, Tacenda said: President Nelson's talk was touching while speaking of his daughter Wendy, loved it. He's a good man, but at the end of the talk he speaks of those members that are on the outside, he speaks as if these people haven't tried or is quite amazed at those those that do not want to take the steps to exaltation. But what he doesn't get nor most TBM's, is that those that do not want to do this, see something wrong with the picture. Or the path. But TBM's that watch this will be so heartsick at their loved ones taking this supposedly wrong path. And if they remember Sister Banks talk they'll think it's the devil that's gotten to their loved ones. Thus, it just drives wedges amongst family members. I've tried to watch with an open mind and open heart, but it's these talks that cause problems, perhaps even divorces among the part member or part believing family members. In any other faith it's not a church it's just the Savior. Or it's another belief but under a creator. On another note, I watched Pres. Eyring and my heart goes out to him and his wife, as I see Pres. Nelson and Oaks be taken by the hands/arms of their wives and walking off the podium area, while Pres. Eyring is alone. I had to look up the circumstances of President Eyring. I guess I didn’t know his wife was severely ill . Tacenda two of my children have chosen a non Covenanted life. I’m not going to worry or be depressed. I see how many do get overwhelmed by it. But I refuse to create divides in my family. There are many deep reasons that people don’t choose to make covenants. I don’t even know if my own covenants are enough, because I’m terrifically imperfect. I felt touched today. For whatever reason, different people will feel different things. I just know I have felt distance for some time, and today, I feel re connected. I still see conflicts in what I believe and what the “church” does, but the bigger picture is more clear and the path more inspiring. ❤️ 7 Link to comment
Popular Post Maestrophil Posted April 7, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 7, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Tacenda said: President Nelson's talk was touching while speaking of his daughter Wendy, loved it. He's a good man, but at the end of the talk he speaks of those members that are on the outside, he speaks as if these people haven't tried or is quite amazed at those those that do not want to take the steps to exaltation. But what he doesn't get nor most TBM's, is that those that do not want to do this, see something wrong with the picture. Or the path. But TBM's that watch this will be so heartsick at their loved ones taking this supposedly wrong path. And if they remember Sister Banks talk they'll think it's the devil that's gotten to their loved ones. Thus, it just drives wedges amongst family members. I've tried to watch with an open mind and open heart, but it's these talks that cause problems, perhaps even divorces among the part member or part believing family members. In any other faith it's not a church it's just the Savior. Or it's another belief but under a creator. On another note, I watched Pres. Eyring and my heart goes out to him and his wife, as I see Pres. Nelson and Oaks be taken by the hands/arms of their wives and walking off the podium area, while Pres. Eyring is alone. I struggle with this - as I so strongly felt the spirit during President Nelson's remarks. I asked my young 14 year old daughter, who says she does not resonate with the church and does not know what she believes in if she felt anything during the talk, and she replied that she felt nothing at all. It is so hard to want to share what you feel with someone who does not. I feel his talk was so full of love and heart, and when I hear you (or people of the same mind) say that the talk was devisive, I wonder what the option is - are you saying he should spend the entire talk stating all the many reasons one might be struggling and/or just apologizing for any possible hurts real or perceived - or can his loving statement that he wishes he could talk to each individual and help them feel the spirit be enough? Is it seen as wrong by those who are struggling to hear a comment with any 'teeth' at all? What would a prophet's message be if it did not have any call to action, to repentance? Sometimes I wonder if those who have chosen to be on the outs with the church see the leaders more as just the presidents of a social club who need to pander to members to keep them happy, rather than emissaries of God who, in my opinion VERY lovingly, call for those who have wandered to return. If people are angry to the point where they have a long checklist the brethren must meet before they would even consider contemplating a return to activity or membership, then, in my view, they have placed a very real stumbling block in their own path in regards to feeling a desire to return. That said, once people have made the choice to leave, or have felt they can no longer honestly profess belief - my job is not to judge (even though I DO mourn, given my belief paradigm), but is only to honor agency, and to love openly. I pray every day for the spirit to do that, but also for the ability to help my loved ones be able to feel the deep wonder, peace, and joy I feel as the spirit fills my heart at conference. Edited April 7, 2019 by Maestrophil Spelling 8 Link to comment
Kenngo1969 Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 21 minutes ago, MustardSeed said: If anyone trying to get people to shed their stubbornness or resistance to gospel truths is frustrated I would suggest studying the presidents manner of teaching. I have never felt so inspired to make changes than I have by the prophet today. I feel his genuine love and concern. This is what makes people truly change... imo of course. Great session. You don't get it, Mustard Seed. Any sane, sensible, reasonable person would have been offended. (Glad you enjoyed the session. I did, too.) 2 Link to comment
Kenngo1969 Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, MustardSeed said: ... There are many deep reasons that people don’t choose to make covenants. I don’t even know if my own covenants are enough, because I’m terrifically imperfect. ... Of course they are. And don't worry: Christ saves imperfect people all the time, even when they're terrifically imperfect! 2 Link to comment
carbon dioxide Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 37 minutes ago, SouthernMo said: Nelson: Salvation is an individual matter; exaltation is a family matter. I gotta think about that... Nobody can be exalted without being sealed to someone else at some point in existence. 3 Link to comment
SteveO Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, Maestrophil said: I struggle with this - as I so strongly felt the spirit during President Nelson's remarks. I asked my young 14 year old daughter, who says she does not resonate with the church and does not know what she believes in if she felt anything during the talk, and she replied that she felt nothing at all. She’s 14, I was such a punk when I was that age. She’ll figure it out eventually. 3 Link to comment
carbon dioxide Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 26 minutes ago, SteveO said: “Time is running out” Is it me, or are they really focusing on the last days? Time is always running out regardless of whether its directed to the individual or the world as a whole. 1 Link to comment
Popular Post Kenngo1969 Posted April 7, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, Maestrophil said: I struggle with this - as I so strongly felt the spirit during President Nelson's remarks. I asked my young 14 year old daughter, who says she does not resonate with the church and does not know what she believes in if she felt anything during the talk, and she replied that she felt nothing at all. It is so hard to want to share what you feel with someone who does not. ... I realize this is easy for me to say, since I'm my only child ( ), but don't despair. Just keep loving and praying for her, invite her as you feel prompted, but God has Eternity to save us. He won't give up, so you shouldn't, either. I wish you well. 8 Link to comment
MustardSeed Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said: Of course they are. And don't worry: Christ saves imperfect people all the time, even when they're terrifically imperfect! Making and keeping are two different things. But thank you for your vote of confidence. And I believe if we have all the information about someone who feels offended by a message that others are inspired by, it (the offense) then makes sense. There is room for all, and no one’s story is over yet. Praise the Lord. Edited April 7, 2019 by MustardSeed 1 Link to comment
jpv Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 1 hour ago, SouthernMo said: Elder Cook: Mothers and Fathers have equal right to revelation. And "together they receive priesthood power" 3 Link to comment
Popular Post Scott Lloyd Posted April 7, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 7, 2019 2 hours ago, stemelbow said: I find it I interesting some are still talking about it. And the effort to dismiss it has been embarrassing. Each time it appears the effort to dismiss is to say the entire groups mitive was...of course with many people involved you get tons of various and complicated web of motives. And it’s perhaps a good note to make that some still are intent on talking about it and complaining about it. And since moves have been made by the church towards women. So...not so easy to dismiss unless, of course, you have in your complex set of motivations there remains an axe to grind, as they say. I’ve never bought in to the notion that whatever “moves have been made by the Church toward women” are attributable to Kelly’s group and their bullying pressure tactics. 8 Link to comment
mfbukowski Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 2 hours ago, bluebell said: I disagree. As the creator, it is not his or her opinion. It is fact, absolute. What is absolute? The interpretation of a work of art is absolutely true as determined by it's maker? Well then I guess we should grant that the Christus is only true for Lutherans? Is that we are saying? And to have a true knowledge of the Pieta we need to be Michelangelo? Or only the architect of a temple knows the truth of the temple? Surely you are not saying that? And whoever authored scriptures can know the true meaning of the scripture they authored? And no one can have a true perspective of anything said or written or made unless they said or made it? I think that's a direct denial personal revelation. Obviously I must no be understanding you. Link to comment
bluebell Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 5 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: What is absolute? The interpretation of a work of art is absolutely true as determined by it's maker? Well then I guess we should grant that the Christus is only true for Lutherans? Is that we are saying? And to have a true knowledge of the Pieta we need to be Michelangelo? Or only the architect of a temple knows the truth of the temple? Surely you are not saying that? And whoever authored scriptures can know the true meaning of the scripture they authored? And no one can have a true perspective of anything said or written or made unless they said or made it? I think that's a direct denial personal revelation. Obviously I must no be understanding you. Truth can be shared. To have a true knowledge of Pieta we don’t have to be Michelangelo. We just have to ask him. We gain truth by going to the source. We don’t have to be the source though. Link to comment
MiserereNobis Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 6 minutes ago, bluebell said: Truth can be shared. To have a true knowledge of Pieta we don’t have to be Michelangelo. We just have to ask him. We gain truth by going to the source. We don’t have to be the source though. In literary analysis, this is the authorial intent fallacy. The meaning of a work of literature is not determined solely by what the author intended. The ambiguities of language and the reader’s personal experiences also come into play. The ultimate authority for the meaning of a text is the text itself, not the author. 4 Link to comment
Stargazer Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Tacenda said: On another note, I watched Pres. Eyring and my heart goes out to him and his wife, as I see Pres. Nelson and Oaks be taken by the hands/arms of their wives and walking off the podium area, while Pres. Eyring is alone. I can definitely appreciate this thought, Tacenda. I cannot channel Pres. Eyring, but I can mention my experience: after my wife passed away, I walked alone, too, but only to others' eyes. I might have appeared to be alone, but she was really still with me. A few weeks after the funeral, an older sister we knew asked me "Do you still talk with her?" My answer was "Every day!" I miss her, regret she cannot be with me now, but the love goes on! And bless you for thinking of Pres. Eyring like this! 3 Link to comment
bluebell Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 Just now, MiserereNobis said: In literary analysis, this is the authorial intent fallacy. The meaning of a work of literature is not determined solely by what the author intended. The ambiguities of language and the reader’s personal experiences also come into play. The ultimate authority for the meaning of a text is the text itself, not the author. I disagree. A text has no meaning except that which comes from the author and that which comes from the interpretation of the reader. Without the author and/or the reader the text has no meaning. Text cannot have meaning in and of itself. And the meaning of the author will always trump the interpretation of the meaning by a reader. A reader simply doesn’t have the ability to tell the author “no, you did not mean that, you meant this”. 3 Link to comment
Tacenda Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 Watching the "half time" progams in between conference about the Amish families that joined the church. And it's pretty poetic almost that these people are going through or went through, the same emotions that many that leave the LDS church have gone through. And they said something about realizing the truth wasn't in their Amish faith and they were seeking truth. Sounds very similar to many that have left the LDS church. As many in the LDS church realized the early narrative was not true. Shunning was another problem, with them feeling safe to leave, many decided to stay in the Amish church. I know our LDS leaders urge people to not shun their family/neighbors/friends, but it still happens in a subtle ways or outright ways, especially if they think Satan has them. Lots of similarities here. Oh, and those LDS that welcome these Amish into their wards are much like the non-LDS Christians that welcome former LDS. And the world goes round and round. Link to comment
MustardSeed Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, Tacenda said: Watching the "half time" progams in between conference about the Amish families that joined the church. And it's pretty poetic almost that these people are going through or went through, the same emotions that many that leave the LDS church have gone through. And they said something about realizing the truth wasn't in their Amish faith and they were seeking truth. Sounds very similar to many that have left the LDS church. As many in the LDS church realized the early narrative was not true. Shunning was another problem, with them feeling safe to leave, many decided to stay in the Amish church. I know our LDS leaders urge people to not shun their family/neighbors/friends, but it still happens in a subtle ways or outright ways, especially if they think Satan has them. Lots of similarities here. Oh, and those LDS that welcome these Amish into their wards are much like the non-LDS Christians that welcome former LDS. And the world goes round and round. It does , go round and round. ❤️ Link to comment
Avatar4321 Posted April 7, 2019 Author Share Posted April 7, 2019 4 hours ago, gopher said: Elder Stephenson gave a great talk in priesthood session, but there was some grumbling in the chapel when he showed Bryce Harper. It's still way too early for DC sports fans to be reminded of him in a Phillies jersey. Anyone in a Phillies jersey is good Link to comment
USU78 Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, bluebell said: I disagree. A text has no meaning except that which comes from the author and that which comes from the interpretation of the reader. Without the author and/or the reader the text has no meaning. Text cannot have meaning in and of itself. And the meaning of the author will always trump the interpretation of the meaning by a reader. A reader simply doesn’t have the ability to tell the author “no, you did not mean that, you meant this”. There is a school of aesthetic thought which holds that the true creative act is achieved by an actor surmounting his body and intellect by entering a state of play. In that state the artist's intentionality becomes irrelevant. G-d, you see, gifts him creative power in his mind and in his heart and more besides. G-d plays there, too, you see. 4 Link to comment
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