Jump to content
Seriously No Politics ×

The Mormon Mexican Colonies


Recommended Posts

10 minutes ago, cacheman said:

I thought it was his wife, Camille.  I don't recall any mention of Spencer Kimball living in the colonies.  It's been a while though,  so maybe I'm missing something. 

Yep, Camilla was born there:

https://deseretbook.com/p/camilla-biography-eyring-kimball-edward-l-78365?variant_id=20018-ebook

Spencer was born in SLC, but lived his young life in Thatcher, Arizona.

Link to comment
21 minutes ago, cacheman said:

I thought it was his wife, Camille.  I don't recall any mention of Spencer Kimball living in the colonies.  It's been a while though,  so maybe I'm missing something. 

No, you're right. I misremembered.

Link to comment
51 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

Yep. Poor Mexico had to endure caravan after caravan of immigrant Mormons leaving a country that persecuted them terribly, including killing them. These Mormon caravans were filled with criminals, too, since polygamy was illegal.

If only Mexico had built a wall...

 

Unfortunately for Mexico, they lost Salt Lake City less than a year after it was founded so they never had time to build that wall.  But luckily, they only dealt with a few caravans.  The majority of the caravans were after the war.

Link to comment
6 hours ago, Calm said:

Yep, Camilla was born there:

https://deseretbook.com/p/camilla-biography-eyring-kimball-edward-l-78365?variant_id=20018-ebook

Spencer was born in SLC, but lived his young life in Thatcher, Arizona.

My family has an anecdotal story dealing with polygamy and President Kimball.  The story goes that after President Kimball was called to be an apostle, his replacement Stake President was doing temple recommend renewals for my ancestors.  First, the husband goes in and gets his recommend renewed.  Then the wife goes in and gets hers renewed.  Then the second wife.  The Stake President doesn't know what to do about this since this was in the 1940s (the husband and two wives are really old by this time).  He calls up then Elder Kimball who tells him that they are a great family and that they aren't breaking any commandments so go ahead and renew the recommend.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to prove this story.  The husband and wives were dead by the time President Kimball was called to be an apostle. But it is possible that the story is true and it was a new councilor while President Kimball was still the Stake President.  Or, it is possible that the ancestor was mixed up.

Edited to add: This family was from the colonies as well.  The husband and wives had been born in Mexico.

Edited by webbles
Link to comment

1. I have been to Colonia Juarez, where my great-grandfather was Stake President after the exodus. 

2. All four of my grandparents grew up in the Mexican Colonies. My last "church-legal" polygamist relative passed away in 1976, in Provo. 

3. Fairly good knowledge. It helps that I have the journals of Anthony Ivins, who was called by the Church to set up the colonies. Fascinating stuff.  

Pancho Villa (Doroteo was his true first name) was a wild man and not very saint-like, but he loved the Mormons and he did what he could to protect them from the Mexican Army and the red-flagger revolutionary rabble. General Salazar was not good to the Saints. He and his troops did much harm to the members in the colonies. 

While polygamy was illegal in Mexico, the Church had an agreement with the federal Mexican government that no prosecution would take place for the saints. 

I think the Ensign magazine has had a few articles about the colonies, but they were few and far between. I don't recall any dicussion on the colonies in regular church meetings. 

Link to comment
31 minutes ago, webbles said:

My family has an anecdotal story dealing with polygamy and President Kimball.  The story goes that after President Kimball was called to be an apostle, his replacement Stake President was doing temple recommend renewals for my ancestors.  First, the husband goes in and gets his recommend renewed.  Then the wife goes in and gets hers renewed.  Then the second wife.  The Stake President doesn't know what to do about this since this was in the 1940s (the husband and two wives are really old by this time).  He calls up then Elder Kimball who tells him that they are a great family and that they aren't breaking any commandments so go ahead and renew the recommend.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to prove this story.  The husband and wives were dead by the time President Kimball was called to be an apostle. But it is possible that the story is true and it was a new councilor while President Kimball was still the Stake President.  Or, it is possible that the ancestor was mixed up.

Edited to add: This family was from the colonies as well.  The husband and wives had been born in Mexico.

I have a similar story from my great-grandfather Stout who lived in Logan, UT with his wives. it was the 1920's and the local leaders were very concerned, but President Benson calmed them down. 

Link to comment
1 hour ago, HiJolly said:

2. All four of my grandparents grew up in the Mexican Colonies. My last "church-legal" polygamist relative passed away in 1976, in Provo. 

I wonder who the last surviving "church-legal" polygamist was and when he/she died.  It is crazy to think that church-legal polygamists were alive as late as 1976!

Link to comment

My cohab-Sugarhouse Jailbird polyg great-grandfather died scant 15 years before I was born.  That's how close I am to such things, and I'm unsurprised that there are folks on this board who are even closer in time to their polyg ancestry.

Link to comment
1 hour ago, pogi said:

I wonder who the last surviving "church-legal" polygamist was and when he/she died.  It is crazy to think that church-legal polygamists were alive as late as 1976!

I explored my relatives in familysearch to see if I could find one later than 1976.  But all I could find was a 1976 death.

I did find a child of "church-legal" polygamy who died in 2018.  She was born in 1918.  The both of her father's wives had children up into the earlier 1920s.

Link to comment

I went to a singles ward with a set of cousins from the colonies. Talking with them was the first time I heard of colonies  They told me that the remnant of the colonies are moving toward mainstream LDS. There are certainly still bands/families that follow the "higher law" and they basically interact with other polygamist groups in Utah/Arizona and often in Canada. Basically girls/women are sent to marry men from other colonies. 

That's all I know.

What surprises me. Is the growing number of families that are living polygamist lifestyle for non-religous reasons in northern Utah. Some are extremely wealthy. 

Edited by Jean-Luc Picard
Link to comment
On 3/31/2019 at 3:00 PM, JAHS said:

My great great grandfather Josiah Guile Hardy was involved in plural marriage, but he only had two wives.  In the late 1800's he lived in the Mexican colonies in Colonia Parcheco, Chihuana, Mexico. He died there in 1894. You can Google his name and find out more if you want.

1799836728_josiahguilehardy.jpg.3750fac62c718702ad62f1b62ca8c42b.jpg

Next time I am in Pacheco I will see if I can find his gravestone and send you a photo. It is about an hour from my house. 

Link to comment
On 3/31/2019 at 11:04 AM, JLHPROF said:

My wife has extended relatives that descend from colony members.

The Church no longer has "colonies" that I am aware of.  The colonies were established during polygamy and continued down into the mid twentieth century.  Nowadays any colonies are probably fundamentalist groups. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_colonies_in_Mexico

The third convention is a part of Mormon history that's on my personal radar for future study. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Convention

There are two colonies left here: Colonia Juarez and Colonia Dublan. They are mainstream LDS folks. There are also Lebaron colonies south of here; but they are obviously not LDS.

Link to comment
On 3/31/2019 at 3:11 PM, USU78 said:

Poncho Villa was active in the area around Juarez and had some unhappy interactions with the colonists.

yBu Films did a short film about it in the late 60s. I think it was called And Should We Die.

I was in 7th grade. It was widely disseminated.

Pancho Villa was a great friend to the Mormons here. He never allowed his men to molest them. To my knowledge he was never in the Colonia Juarez colony, but did spend some time in Dublan and probably traveled through the mountains close to the mountain colonies. I would love to see the film sometime. I have not heard of it before. The colonists even help him take his artillery over the Pulpit Pass on his way to fight the Carrancistas in Agua Prieta. He was badly defeated. Thanks. 

Link to comment
On 3/31/2019 at 5:26 PM, Robert F. Smith said:

Vice News has this documentary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpIyaIHsJbc  (The Mexican Mormon War, 2012)

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints actually has a temple in Colonia Juarez, Chihuahua State, Mexico.  It is not a polygamous colony.

Image result for mormon temple in chihuahua

 

 

The temple is quite beautiful (from the outside). It is about 15 minutes from my house. There are no LDS polygamists left there. The last polygamist wife probably died sometime in the 1960's. There are Lebaron colonies about and hour and half south. They are indeed still polygamous. The LDS Church has missionaries down there. 

Link to comment
12 hours ago, Calm said:

Yep, Camilla was born there:

https://deseretbook.com/p/camilla-biography-eyring-kimball-edward-l-78365?variant_id=20018-ebook

Spencer was born in SLC, but lived his young life in Thatcher, Arizona.

Interestingly enough, I am speaking in Salt Lake in June on the apostles in the colonies. The stories and myths are many. I am trying to straighten it all out. I would love to meet some of you while I am there. 

Link to comment
7 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

Yep. Poor Mexico had to endure caravan after caravan of immigrant Mormons leaving a country that persecuted them terribly, including killing them. These Mormon caravans were filled with criminals, too, since polygamy was illegal.

If only Mexico had built a wall...

Polygamy was also illegal in Mexico. There were criminals who hid out for a while in the colonies, including some of those indicted for MMM. One died here and is buried in Colonia Juarez in the old cemetery.

Link to comment
1 hour ago, Jean-Luc Picard said:

I went to a singles ward with a set of cousins from the colonies. Talking with them was the first time I heard of colonies  They told me that the remnant of the colonies are moving toward mainstream LDS. There are certainly still bands/families that follow the "higher law" and they basically interact with other polygamist groups in Utah/Arizona and often in Canada. Basically girls/women are sent to marry men from other colonies. 

That's all I know.

What surprises me. Is the growing number of families that are living polygamist lifestyle for non-religous reasons in northern Utah. Some are extremely wealthy. 

All the folks in the two remaining colonies are mainstsream LDS - well not my wife and me! Ha! There are many Jones, Hatches, Whettens, Taylors, Romneys, Turleys, and on and on. There are Mexican Catholics and a few Mexican Protestants also living in the colonies, but certainly no polygamists. 

Edited by Navidad
Link to comment
35 minutes ago, Navidad said:

Pancho Villa was a great friend to the Mormons here. He never allowed his men to molest them. To my knowledge he was never in the Colonia Juarez colony, but did spend some time in Dublan and probably traveled through the mountains close to the mountain colonies. I would love to see the film sometime. I have not heard of it before. The colonists even help him take his artillery over the Pulpit Pass on his way to fight the Carrancistas in Agua Prieta. He was badly defeated. Thanks. 

It was, I think, a little more muddled than that. See, e.g., 

http://www.crockettclan.org/wws/villa.html

Link to comment
33 minutes ago, Navidad said:

All the folks in the two remaining colonies are mainstsream LDS - well not my wife and me! Ha! There are many Jones, Hatches, Whettens, Taylors, Romneys, Turleys, and on and on. There are Mexican Catholics and a few Mexican Protestants also living in the colonies, but certainly no polygamists. 

That makes sense. I now know why they looked at me funny when I asked about polygamy. 

They were Hatches if I remember right. Funny watching a fair skinned red head speaking beautiful Mexican Spanish. 

Link to comment
56 minutes ago, Navidad said:

Pancho Villa was a great friend to the Mormons here. He never allowed his men to molest them. To my knowledge he was never in the Colonia Juarez colony, but did spend some time in Dublan and probably traveled through the mountains close to the mountain colonies. I would love to see the film sometime. I have not heard of it before. The colonists even help him take his artillery over the Pulpit Pass on his way to fight the Carrancistas in Agua Prieta. He was badly defeated. Thanks. 

Navidad, do you have a problem crossing into the US ever? This just crossed my mind, since you mention coming here before. My son-in-law is from Aguascalientas. Too bad he crossed over illegally with his family at age 18, we've been trying to get him legal, paid a few thousand so far, but get cold feet on going through with it. Since it's such a touchy process and worried that he'll be deported. But he has been married to my daughter for nearly 15 years with two sons. 

 

Link to comment

I hope no one minds if I clarify a few things. All of the folks who established the Mexican Mormon colonies were mainstream members of the Church. It is true that some, if not most were very conservative and many practiced the principle of plural marriage. However, they came because they were called to come by John Taylor. They were called from southern Utah and Arizona, Colorado, and New Mexico to colonize Mexico. They lived in many rural areas before coming here because many, but not all practiced plural marriage.

Brigham Young sent the first scouts here to find places for colonization in 1875. These early trips here included three apostles. Apostle Moses Thatcher then dedicated Mexico on Jan 25, 1880 for colonization, not for evangelism as many think. The idea was that if Anglo colonists came here to live, they would establish the means, resources, personnel, etc. to support the future evangelization. For the first twenty-some years the colonists focused on living and supporting themselves. The Church helped a lot in providing the funds to buy a lot of land. Of course, all of this land going into Anglo’s hands alienated many of the local folks who already lived here. There were many towns already in the area. That tension still exists to some degree to this day.

Our area was a hotbed of revolution. I have been unable to identify any Mormons who were killed or sexually molested as a result of the revolution, but certainly many were harassed, and much was stolen. The colonies that were actually settled with the blessing of the Church had  meeting houses, stores, etc. Lots of folks list different numbers of colonies, but I think a good list includes, Colonia Dublán, Colonia Guadalupe, Colonia Diaz, Colonia Juarez, Colonia Pacheco. Colonia Garcia, and Colonia Chuichupa, all in Chihuahua and Colonia Morelos, Colonia San Jose, and Colonia Oaxaca, all in Sonora. That makes 10 in all. There were other smaller temporary settlements, but they were never sanctioned by the Church. In July 1912 many of the saints returned to El Paso and Hachita NM and from there scattered around the west. They were not always well received by their brethren in the States because the Church had significantly changed between 1885 and 1912.

The most famous returnee was six-year-old George Romney, daddy of Mitt. The Saints here by in large are sad because Mitt has never come here nor acknowledged them publicly. That is a sore subject here.

Many returned to Mexico and were the forebearers of the folks who are here now. Perhaps there are somewhere between 600-800 Anglo Saints still here. They have a wonderful academy and a temple on a beautiful hilltop.

It is a complicated history. It is a sacred history. There are many  sacred places here where the Saints’ leaders sought God’s will for their future. I am proud and pleased to be associated with them to be a non-member attendee of the historic First Ward of Colonia Juarez. I love helping them enjoy and understand their sacred history!

Link to comment
1 hour ago, Navidad said:

Interestingly enough, I am speaking in Salt Lake in June on the apostles in the colonies. The stories and myths are many. I am trying to straighten it all out. I would love to meet some of you while I am there. 

Where are you speaking?

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...