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FairMormon paid ads on Exmo Reddit site

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25 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

The price we have to pay for a relatively free internet.

All I know is I got really tried of seeing adult incontinence products everywhere I wandered for a few months after checking out some products for my mom.

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57 minutes ago, Calm said:

A lot of people have moved on to more specialized projects and honestly there isn't really that much new out there to discuss besides  the various news controversies and the occasional new book.  The stuff that needs scholarship gets discussed elsewhere.  I am just grateful chamspatch, Clark, and others are discussing the EModE data here as that is informative.

The use of podcasts to share new info without a transcript kills the discussion process that occurs here as well, imo.

A real shame if true. Podcasts, relatively unwieldy as thy are, are a poor substitute for spirited and intelligent give-and-take in more-or-less real time on a message board such as this. There have been some good and interesting moments here. I hate to see the decline. 

Through private correspondence, I’m aware of the recent unannounced departure of perhaps the brightest star here due to the changing milieu. I won’t disclose who it is. 

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I went and looked at the first ten pages of those who signed up late 2003/early 2004.  About a dozen of us still around, but most occasional posters.

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26 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

A real shame if true. Podcasts, relatively unwieldy as thy are, are a poor substitute for spirited and intelligent give-and-take in more-or-less real time on a message board such as this. There have been some good and interesting moments here. I hate to see the decline. 

Through private correspondence, I’m aware of the recent unannounced departure of perhaps the brightest star here due to the changing milieu. I won’t disclose who it is. 

Shoot, I hope they return, whomever it is. But I have my ideas.

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5 hours ago, DBMormon said:

When a similar one was brought up in a thread

Here?  Remind me, please.

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21 hours ago, provoman said:

I thought you were Bill, are you John Dehlin?

I am Bill sharing Johns post

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18 hours ago, Calm said:

Here?  Remind me, please.

I shared this in the bennett thread

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, DBMormon said:

I shared this in the bennett thread

Long thread, have a link please.  A search in your profile doesn't give any obvious post dealing with that in that thread.

Edited by Calm

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On 3/22/2019 at 5:13 PM, Calm said:

Long thread, have a link please.  A search in your profile doesn't give any obvious post dealing with that in that thread.

This one

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Posted (edited)

I thought you meant an accusation was made here, not you discussing accusations made elsewhere.  My losing track of the conversation and misreading, sorry.

As far as "everyone went dark", I don't know what you expected.  People who aren't FM members are unlikely to have any relevant knowledge to respond with and even those who were/are may not since they may not have been members when you were discussed in the past or may not have paid attention to every thread (there are months I skip reading and if I the obsessive do that, I suspect others do to).  I was the only FairMormon poster obviously reading that thread, iirc,  since, again iirc, I was the only one posting and no one else currently in FM hangs out here on a regular basis (pretty much every time I ask for help with research and say someone is looking for info on MDDB I am trying to help or I want to get into a subject in more depth I saw there, someone asks "what is MDDB?" and not uncommon for it to be a longtimer who doesn't care enough to file that tidbit away from theclast time I asked), so as far as I can see, the only safe conclusion for "everyone going dark" was referring to me not saying anything in that thread.

And I didn't because I had no info to contribute.

------

I don't have copies of John's emails or experience with the private forum you mentioned.  I am not a member of anything besides this board and Uplift and FairMormon (and one health list I ignore now it is on FB).  I don't read FM Facebook if by chance you have discussed that there with anyone.  The only FB group I try to participate in is Uplift and that is rare.  I just don't like the FB format and don't care to invest the time in anything besides here and my FM list conversations given I spend way too much time here.  I will do research on people's views on controversies when curious about them, but don't remember any including references to your income as a side conversation.

Without personal knowledge of those occurrences you referred to, what do you want me to say?  I wouldn't trust John's paraphrasing of your comments and I don't trust yours of his...I just don't trust paraphrases period.  But I don't believe it is right to post people's emails, so I wasn't going to ask you to do that.

----

I have always assumed when remarks about you getting money from podcasting have been made anywhere by anyone, if someone was aware you were working at the pawn shop, likely they figured you were not making a living off of your podcasts and therefore they were speaking to desire, not reality.  There are few jobs I would assume people do solely for the fun of it.  I am certain those you referred to as FM members know where you work given the connection with your podcasts.  I may be wrong in my assumptions, of course, but they are consistent with the conversations I have been a part of over the years.  I can see someone making the error if they assume your situation is like Dehlin's, but those who pay attention to such things at FM know he is unique in that way, I believe.  And honestly, I am not the only one who is shocked he can draw such a great income off of it.

You yourself said that was your hope one day though, did you not?  Am I misunderstanding this below meaning that you would like this to become your career as it has Dehlin's for the most part (I am guessing here now I think about it, he might be making bigger money with his lifecoaching career)?  Please correct if I have misinterpreted.  :)

Quote

 I hope to take a salary in the future but that still appears to be years away

-----

Btw, Steve Densley (profile says last visited 2014) and Steve Smoot (not listed under own name, don't remember alias if he had one to check) are not members of FairMormon and haven't been for quite sometime.  I don't know if John has ever posted on the board, might have rarely read it when I have linked to it when asking for help with research, but I doubt it given comments seem limited to responding to only me.  Usually I quote what I am asking about if needed, even when giving links.  He shows signing on in 2005 which was the original FAIR board, iirc, but never visiting since 2007 and that seems to reflect what I can tell of his interest.  Neal apparently goes in spurts, in the past year he posted and gave rep points last September and then this past month...so based on that, one could estimate every 6 months or so he hangs around for a week or two.  And his rep pointing indicates he looked on the thread on the 2nd, but only repped a different thread after that and last rep was the 8th, so good chance he missed that post two weeks later.

As far as others, other occasional FM members who also post here have participated in conversation with you on the subject of any income.

I am making this detailed of a post that is probably boring people to death just so assumptions aren't being made about FM members that are inaccurate ( such as even being FM members any more or having awareness of the board).  People should not be held responsible to respond when they are unaware that there are comments others would like them to respond to.  Since few FM members are interested in the board, I don't mention it that often and I suspect few pay attention when I do,  :P, so default assumption should be unless you see a post or rep, no one else is reading but me....and even .I skip a lot these days, so if you want a response, best give me a heads up if it has been over a day.

Edited by Calm

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29 minutes ago, Calm said:

 Since few FM members are interested in the board, I don't mention it that often and I suspect few pay attention when I do,  :P, so default assumption should be unless you see a post or rep, no one else is reading but me....and even .I skip a lot these days, so if you want a response, best give me a heads up if it has been over a day.

Random question. Is there a message board forum where FM members hang out, if not this one? I'd like to interact more with FM types. 

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, churchistrue said:

Random question. Is there a message board forum where FM members hang out, if not this one? I'd like to interact more with FM types. 

Not that I am aware of.  Some members have their niches, this is mine.  I know a few have talked about another list or some academic discussions that take place elsewhere, but it sounds like it is just them in cases I remember.  I am guessing unless they don't like to share even half as much as I do, most limit apologetic discussions to FM (with each other and those who write in asking for help).  There are probably a few that are very active like me, but maybe on Reddit and FB.  I don't do either, except as research.

Uplift FB had the most, but still few iirc.

We tried our own version a few years back again (the start of this board was a FAIR board, memberships were transferred with ownership, so it appears like there are a number here until you look at when they signed up and post history).  Big flop, imo.  The idea was to provide similar support like we do to those who write the elist, but others were treating it more like this board.

Edited by Calm
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On 3/21/2019 at 5:06 PM, churchistrue said:

Terrible idea. What's to gain? People there already know about FairMormon. FairMormon comes up in about every tenth post in that forum. I clicked on one ad that was the response to cimeters. I understand the frustration the author has on this issue. But the article was just so snarky and unnecessarily combative, I kind of was shocked someone thought that was a good idea. All you are doing is making people more angry and more motivated to fight back. And I would suggest that when FairMormon and Exmormons fight online, the Mormon Church loses big time. Best to avoid that. Or if you enter, try to model the high road, try to alleviate the pressure not explode it. My $0.02, sorry for the judgemental nature of this post. I've personally come a long ways in my view of FairMormon/FARMS/Mopologetics from feeling like it was the enemy to being sympathetic to now feeling like I want to join the effort somehow if possible. Keep doing what you're doing, but please be less adversarial.

 

 

Maybe the Russians did it. 😎

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On 3/21/2019 at 7:47 PM, churchistrue said:

Hmm, I have a seminary age boy and come to think of the snarky bravado in that cimeters article actually might appeal to him and his buddies. 

For what it's worth, I was not a seminary-aged kid, but a missionary when I first encountered apologetics. It was Daniel Peterson's "What Certain Baptists Think they Know about the Restored Gospel," chalk full of whit and sarcasm and so on. I loved it. It's what got me to track this stuff down after my mission. I really enjoyed it. Eventually I read some of the drier, more dispassionate stuff, but if that's all that there had been available, I probably never would have gotten into this stuff in the first place.

Given my current career,  I think it's fair to say getting into this stuff has been life-changing. Folks who criticize that style are being (intentionally or not) somewhat elitist, in my view. They've been into the higher-brow academic stuff so long they just don't get that that stuff does not appeal to everybody. Love 'em or hate 'em, popularizing sources are important gateways. Granted not all popularizing methods have to involve satire, sarcasm, etc., but that is one style that often appeals to a broader audience. If it's not what you're into, fine. Dan Peterson freely admits that not every likes that style. He's glad there are others with different writing styles out there also defending the Church to appeal to those with other tastes. This really does not have to be a zero-sum game, where everyone does apologetics the same way. 

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On 3/21/2019 at 10:58 AM, cinepro said:

We also don't know how the ads were placed.  A lot of online advertising is done by algorithm, so depending on the parameters specified, that subreddit may have been included unintentionally.

I think you have it.  I've been posting on reddit for a few months, nothing church related.  I've seen promoted  ads, some of them over and over again, especially one with a guy running up the steps, but none of them church related.  Yesterday I did a search for something conference rumor related and found myself on a  church friendly subreddit.  Today I have the Fairmormon ads appearing in all the subreddits I have been on, church related and not.  

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Posted (edited)
On 3/21/2019 at 10:58 AM, cinepro said:

We also don't know how the ads were placed.  A lot of online advertising is done by algorithm, so depending on the parameters specified, that subreddit may have been included unintentionally.

not on Reddit.  You have to create an ad, chose the subreddits you want to show it in, and await approval.

Edited by FearlessFixxer

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Weirdly the ads are coming up for me now even within technical computer Reddits. I suspect this is an artifact of how Reddit handles ads.

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11 minutes ago, FearlessFixxer said:

not on Reddit.  You have to create an ad, chose the subreddits you want to show it in, and await approval.

Don't think so.

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On 3/29/2019 at 2:52 AM, why me said:

Maybe the Russians did it. 😎

As likely as some of the claims.

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Posted (edited)

There is the possibility that members of the exmo site who are seeing the ads are members of other less critical church related reddits.

Otherwise, the only thing I can think of is the Universe is intent on annoying them.  :P  (Isn't the Internet ultimately run by a slightly malignant trickster god along the lines of Loki?---the Norse Loki, not the Marvel one---That is what best explains many of my experiences.)

Edited by Calm

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4 hours ago, FearlessFixxer said:

not on Reddit.  You have to create an ad, chose the subreddits you want to show it in, and await approval.

You can target subreddits but you are not required to.  You can target by 5 things (see https://www.reddithelp.com/en/categories/advertising/targeting)

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Could it be that exmormonreddit posters type in "fairmormon" a lot and then the website gloms on? Like so often happens when we type or even think ( ;) ) of a product or something and along it comes on our FB feeds?

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On 4/1/2019 at 4:49 PM, FearlessFixxer said:

not on Reddit.  You have to create an ad, chose the subreddits you want to show it in, and await approval.

I'm not subscribed to exmormon, but I do subscribe to a number of other Mormon themed subreddits. I see the ads as well.

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