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SouthernMo

Are we as open as we ask others to be?

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On 3/8/2019 at 2:19 PM, SouthernMo said:

If messengers from another faith knocked on your door, gave you a book and asked you to read it and ask God if it is true, would you invite them in to learn more?

This is something that I would have to think about, a lot. I have already had some very definitive spiritual answers and confirmations to the point that I just do not have any doubts about the restoration, etc.

I have had discussions with members of other faiths quite a bit, although no lately. Mostly they were of the Jehovah's Witnesses persuasion. And looking back upon those discussions, I do not recall any of them ever asking that I pray about the truthfulness of anything they said or of any of the Watchtower tracts they handed out. All of our discussions were based upon Biblical scriptures and trying to prove our points using them. It was during those discussions that I came to the conclusion that it is futile to try to prove a point using the Bible. For each point that they would make, I could find a scripture that would seem to contradict their interpretation. And they could do the same for the points I brought up. And most often, we would have different interpretations on any particular scripture.

I do have a great respect for most of those door to door evangelists as they seem to be very sincere in their beliefs and just about all of the Jehovah's Witnesses that I have known have practiced what they preach.

Glenn

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On 3/8/2019 at 11:19 AM, SouthernMo said:

If messengers from another faith knocked on your door, gave you a book and asked you to read it and ask God if it is true, would you invite them in to learn more?

If they were believers in the Urantia Book, I would invite them in, and then explain to them why it cannot be a true book as it refutes the central teaching of the atonement taught in the NT.

If they were JWs, I would invite them in, and discuss how their belief is incorrect, and I cannot follow it.

I've never had the former, but I have had the latter. 

The reason I joined this Church is because the BoM is consistent with the Bible. If it weren't I wouldn't be posting here.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/8/2019 at 12:19 PM, SouthernMo said:

If messengers from another faith knocked on your door, gave you a book and asked you to read it and ask God if it is true, would you invite them in to learn more?

I invited the Jehovah's Witnesses that knocked just last week; and I told them I loved reading their stuff, which I do, if they hadn't have left a little magazine with me, I would have asked for it.

I have learned much about Islam.  I began my learning about Islam, many years ago when I heard many fearful people around me saying so many bad things.  I wanted to know for myself.  I asked God if Mohammad was his prophet.  I asked that before I learned anything, that was simply my beginning question.  God began teaching me immediately, starting with typing Mohammad as a key word into LDS.org and reading the articles there.  I can't express to you how many experiences and learning I have had since then.  It came to me at one point that I should humble myself and ask God if I should become Muslim and truly wait upon the answer.  Nevertheless, I was pretty sure I would get a 'no' answer.  But I did not get a 'no' answer.  The answer was "You choose".  I was floored.  My journey in Islam has continued and I am guided by many of its tenets.  I consider Quran scripture.

I am also Hindu.  I study and learn in that tradition.  Ganesh was my favorite God up until a couple of weeks ago (including having a small statue of him on my dresser), and now I am embracing Shiva, Shiva Nataraja, Lord of the Dance.  Interestingly enough I feel like learning about Shiva is part of my answer when I asked God, "Why are we calling you Lord?" (because that happens to offend me and confuse me).

I also love the Jewish faith and learning there.

I've gone to Mass with my friend, and I feel that the liturgical year is very important.  I read Richard Rohr faithfully.

I go with that saying that 'Mormonism' is all truth wherever it is found.  I want to search every way God has been known.  And at this point in my life, I am not on a search for truth.  I feel that is a much lesser quest.  I am, rather, trying to embody peace and the love of God.  If I had my druthers, I would be a part of no church and no religion.  But for now I keep my covenant, because I don't dare leave it behind, and I know by experience what it has done for me.  But I do say that my religion is being alive, breathing, and being a person.

 

Edited by Maidservant

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14 hours ago, Navidad said:

Oh my, you skipped the Anabaptist faiths! You missed the best! 🙂

I may have my theological disagreements with my Mennonite friends, but I very much respect their love and devotion to Christ.

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On 3/8/2019 at 2:19 PM, SouthernMo said:

If messengers from another faith knocked on your door, gave you a book and asked you to read it and ask God if it is true, would you invite them in to learn more?

Of course most TBMs would not. I never did. 

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On 3/8/2019 at 2:23 PM, bluebell said:

Probably not.  I'd invite them in and discuss stuff with them, and even read their stuff (I have in the past with the JWs) but I probably wouldn't pray about it because I have already specifically prayed about which church has the gospel of Christ and have gotten an answer to that specific prayer.

I feel like the request from missionaries to find out the truth is meant for those who haven't ever said that prayer or gone to Him in prayer with that question.

Why wound't you be open to having your truth claims challenged?

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On 3/8/2019 at 2:59 PM, bluebell said:

I'm the YW president in my ward and our Mia Maids recently attended Ashe Wednesday at the local Lutheran church for a class activity.  I thought it was a wonderful idea and so important for the girls to learn early that other people of faith are just as sincere in their relationship with God as they are.

Yet you would cheer if one of them left their traditional faith to join ours and weep if one left ours to join theirs.

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On 3/8/2019 at 5:09 PM, not_my_real_name said:

Once I found my wife, there was no need to continue to wander through the lot kicking tires. The same applies to the Restored Gospel. I have found the truth; no reason to test drive some other message. 

It is pretty sad when we think we have no need to look at other claims, evidence, etc.  But if it works for you who I am to complain. Just doesn't work for me.

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5 minutes ago, Teancum said:

you would cheer if one of them left their traditional faith to join ours and weep if one left ours to join theirs.

I suspect bluebell wouldn’t weep if she saw they were happier and more committed to their new faith. 

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On 3/9/2019 at 6:19 AM, SouthernMo said:

If messengers from another faith knocked on your door, gave you a book and asked you to read it and ask God if it is true, would you invite them in to learn more?

My parents' rule when I was growing up was that anyone who took the time to come to our home to share a message would be invited in and listened to. As a result, the first book of scripture I ever read was the Bhagavad Gita. (I liked the images of the gods!)

I've maintained this rule in my own life. I love being around people who are passionate for something and who want to share it. I interpret proselytism as the act of love it's nearly always meant to be. I'm happy to take literature and read it. Most recently, I met a Swedenborgian man with the missionaries, and he sent me home with some of his books, which I did read in part.

No one has ever asked me to pray over their literature -- and in fact, my experience has been that, if I offer, I get a strange look. But if they asked, I would. Why wouldn't I? As I've mentioned on this forum before, I've never prayed about the Book of Mormon, but I certainly have my own way of God guiding me into truth.

I'm always super-happy when someone shares truth with me! I don't care if they're members or not.

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4 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

My parents' rule when I was growing up was that anyone who took the time to come to our home to share a message would be invited in and listened to

I have known a number of members, including myself when able, who do so. 

It would be interesting to research if Saints are more, the same, or less likely to listen to missionaries or read material. 

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1 minute ago, Calm said:

It would be interesting to research if Saints are more, the same, or less likely to listen to missionaries or read material. 

I don't know of any research on this, but the members I know best are all like me. It would be weird, in my opinion, to hope others would listen to us if we won't listen to others.

We recently enjoyed a multicultural festival in our city, and I intentionally took our zone leaders with me to the stall of our local Ahmadiyya Muslim community. I wanted them to meet the 'Latter-day Saints' of the Muslim world. They were both gifted copies of the Qur'an in their mother tongues. It was a thoughtful gesture. And my good mate Ahmed then asked them if they would come share their beliefs with the youth group at their mosque. Good stuff! I find the Spirit thrills when around other people of sincere faith.

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29 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Of course most TBMs would not. I never did. 

I think you and I may have very different definitions of what it means to be both true and believing. Why didn't you ever listen to people from other faiths?

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19 minutes ago, Calm said:

I suspect bluebell wouldn’t weep if she saw they were happier and more committed to their new faith. 

Perhaps not. But I doubt she would rejoice.

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3 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I think you and I may have very different definitions of what it means to be both true and believing. Why didn't you ever listen to people from other faiths?

When I as solid TBM i did not invite those who knocked on my door into my home. And I have a number who did.

However I have always read and seeked out to discuss other's faith viewpoints. Especially those I knew personally from other faiths.

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1 hour ago, Teancum said:

Yet you would cheer if one of them left their traditional faith to join ours and weep if one left ours to join theirs.

I don't know.  I haven't wept yet when one of my friends have left the church, and I've never actually cheered when someone joined.  But I guess I know what you mean and my answer is 'well, obviously.'  Obviously I believe the truth claims about the church and so yes, i am sad when someone leaves and happy when they join.  I'm not exactly sure point you're trying to make.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Teancum said:

Yet you would cheer if one of them left their traditional faith to join ours and weep if one left ours to join theirs.

I cannot speak for Bluebell, obviously, but it's not necessarily the case that I would cheer if someone left his faith to join the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or that I would weep if he left the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to join another faith.  While I do believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the best thing going, faith-wise, and belief-wise, and paradigm-wise, I cannot demand that someone else accept my paradigm.  If he is not at home, spiritually speaking, in the faith he has left, it's not my place to demand that he stay.  (While I might try to reason with him in the spirit of Doctrine and Covenants 121, whatever his decision, I would wish him well and wish him happiness in his spiritual journey.)  His standing before God is between God and him, and my standing before God is between God and me.  God is more than capable of saving anyone without my help: "The keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel, and He employeth no servant there" (2 Nephi 9:41, emphasis added).

Edited by Kenngo1969
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1 hour ago, Teancum said:

Why wound't you be open to having your truth claims challenged?

I don't know what this question means.  What is 'having my truth claims challenged'?  Is praying about something your definition of having your truth claims challenged, is that what you are asking?

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1 hour ago, Teancum said:

It is pretty sad when we think we have no need to look at other claims, evidence, etc.  But if it works for you who I am to complain. Just doesn't work for me.

I am baffled as to why this would be “sad”.  

I had several experiences while I was investigating the church (and after), that left no doubt.  Why would I turn to man’s claims and “evidence” when I already had everything I needed directly from Heavenly Father?

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34 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I don't know.  I haven't wept yet when one of my friends have left the church, and I've never actually cheered when someone joined.  But I guess I know what you mean and my answer is 'well, obviously.'  Obviously I believe the truth claims about the church and so yes, i am sad when someone leaves and happy when they join.  I'm not exactly sure point you're trying to make.

I'm sorry if you've mentioned it, or care not to, but did she go down the road of reading information she was unaware of in her life as LDS? And if so, what a lucky friend to have you! Because she can bring anything up and you wouldn't get upset at what she has to say or worry she would hurt your testimony. I hope you've let her know that she can tell you anything about the church that she's read about. I was too afraid and this board is the only time I was able to get it all out!! 

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Raingirl said:

I had several experiences while I was investigating the church (and after), that left no doubt.  Why would I turn to man’s claims and “evidence” when I already had everything I needed directly from Heavenly Father?

As educational psychologist and Harvard professor William G. Perry has pointed out, the ability to be 100 per cent committed to something whilst still being open to further learning is an intellectually, psychologically and spiritually mature place to be. I'm unsure why anyone would misinterpret commitment as some kind of fear of being challenged.

Edited by Hamba Tuhan
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Posted (edited)

No Chrstian group has 100% of the truth because we all still see through a glass darkly. God has not yet revealed 100% of Himself to anyone or any group. I am confident He has revealed differing things to different groups. So we all have much to learn from each other. Dr. Hardy, a faithful Mormon historian often suggested that the Anglo Mexican Mormons "cocooned" themselves and were prone to cultural encystment here in Mexico. Hence they had little support network when the revolution broke out and had to leave. Each Christian group has its own niche in God's overall plan. What might you be missing by staying cocooned in your own niche?

Edited by Navidad

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Navidad said:

Dr. Hardy, a faithful Mormon historian often suggested that the Anglo Mexican Mormons "cocooned" themselves and were prone to cultural encystment here in Mexico.

Cocooning is not for Latter-day Saints. (As we know from anthropology, the end result is always weakness.) 

Latter-day Saints can (and should!) acknowledge that they don't have 100 per cent of the truth. This doesn't mean that we can't accept fully that God has restored His Church with authority and prophets unique in all the world. From the time of Joseph Smith, the prophets themselves have modelled this 'commitment in relativism'.

Edited by Hamba Tuhan
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On 3/9/2019 at 8:45 PM, Waylon said:

I may have my theological disagreements with my Mennonite friends, but I very much respect their love and devotion to Christ.

Had a very odd experience in Austria when I was 20. A Mennonite preacher came through town. Our district decided to attend since the subject was cultbusting.

We were, of course, conspicuous. He lit into Mormons. At the end, we walked down to speak to him. He started hollering at us. We remained calm and asked for a chance to respond. He agreed.

But he was a no show. I ended up answering questions on the New Testament. Mostly college age kids showed up. They were a nice group.

I wish the Mennonite parson had taught from the Spirit and challenged his auditors.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Teancum said:

Perhaps not. But I doubt she would rejoice.

Why not?  If a person has found a faith, a belief system, and/or a paradigm which works for him or her, why not rejoice over that?  Again, if someone asks my advice before such a decision is made, I might attempt to reason with him or her in the spirit of Doctrine and Covenants 121, but if s/he finds a paradigm which works better for that person, why not wish him or her well?

Edited by Kenngo1969
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