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3 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Well, the Church likes to have things in people's native tongue.  Do many Romans raise their babies speaking Latin as their native tongue?

I was being facetious -- sometimes the internet masks tone. But I go to Latin Mass and I appreciate the universality of the language. Wherever I go in the world, if I go to Latin Mass it's the same :)

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2 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

I was being facetious -- sometimes the internet masks tone. But I go to Latin Mass and I appreciate the universality of the language. Wherever I go in the world, if I go to Latin Mass it's the same :)

Sorry, I missed the tone.  *blush*

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3 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Sorry, I missed the tone.  *blush*

No problem, that's the issue with internet text. Now, if I was @The Nehoryou'd just know that 99% of what I say is facetious ;) 

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There are rumors....

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9 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

I was being facetious -- sometimes the internet masks tone. But I go to Latin Mass and I appreciate the universality of the language. Wherever I go in the world, if I go to Latin Mass it's the same :)

Every LDS sacrament meeting I have attended is the same, too.

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14 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

The entire 1st presidency and twelve are going to the dedication. I don’t think this has ever happened outside the us in the history of the church 

Designated Survivor?

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23 hours ago, Duncan said:

I can't imagine having real Italian Pizza, I mean Dominoes is great BUT legit Italian Pizza would be worth travelling for, i'd imagine-Although having pizza is probably not high on the Brethren's list of priorities

The worst pizza  I ever had was in Rome, but Italy also had some of the best pizza I ever had as well. The advice not to eat the food near tourist areas is generally true - it is more expensive and  not so good. That bad pizza was our first taste of Italy, but we were exhausted and starving our first night there and didn't have the heart to walk farther. Luckily, we had been given that advice so later in the trip we had some delicious pizza.

Edited by Rain
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20 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

I wonder if they are reaching out to Pope Francis for a meeting. That would be pretty cool. Are non-members allowed to view the dedication of a temple or is that for temple recommend holders only?

Looks like Pope Francis reaches out to them. 

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900059557/pope-francis-meets-with-president-nelson-in-the-vatican-catholic-mormon-rome.html

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3 hours ago, Rain said:

The worst pizza  I ever had was in Rome, but Italy also had some of the best pizza I ever had as well. The advice not to eat the food near tourist areas in generally true - it is more expensive and  not so good. That pizza was our first taste of Italy, but we were exhausted and starving our first night there and didn't have the heart to walk farther. Luckily, we had been given that advice so later in the trip we had some delicious pizza.

hahahahhahahaha! i'd love to go and check it out, until then Penelope's Pizza 2 for a dollar deal it is 😕

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21 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

I wonder if they are reaching out to Pope Francis for a meeting. That would be pretty cool

Evidently they did: 

"VATICAN CITY — Russell M. Nelson became the first president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to meet with a pope, according to a news release from the church.

The historic meeting between Nelson and Pope Francis occurred inside the Vatican one day before Nelson will dedicate the LDS church’s first temple in Rome.

“We had a most cordial, unforgettable experience. His Holiness, he was most gracious and warm and welcoming,” said President Nelson, according to the news release.  “What a sweet, wonderful man he is, and how fortunate the Catholic people are to have such a gracious, concerned, loving and capable leader.”

Nelson said he and Pope Francis talked about their mutual concern for people suffering throughout the world, religious liberty, the importance of family, the secularization of the world and their mutual desire to encourage the worship of God...."

https://fox13now.com/2019/03/09/lds-church-president-russell-m-nelson-meets-with-pope-francis/

Edited by Jane_Doe
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I just started a new thread on the meeting and the article. The article was a great read. The history between LDS and Catholics was interesting and the current collaboration is awesome.

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On 3/8/2019 at 1:34 PM, cinepro said:

I'm pretty sure LDS scriptures would place the Kansas City temple within the "land of the Bible"...

The church likely takes a neutral position on the geography of the Bible and subscribes to no official geographical model.  Only affirming that the garden of Eden was located somewhere on "the earth".

 

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On 3/8/2019 at 11:00 AM, sjdawg said:

I don't see this is a big deal.  Big travel expense but in the grand scheme of things a non-issue

Maybe they'll all get to toss coins into the Trevi Fountain (Fontana di Trevi)..

I'd leave at least one guy back in SLC, just in case a terrorist decides to attack.  What are the rules for succession in that case?

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On 3/8/2019 at 11:15 AM, MiserereNobis said:

That would suggest that they view the temple in Rome as a very big deal. Why is that? Is it because it is in the heart of Catholicism? If so, why would that be a particularly big deal? It comes off a little triumphant, but maybe they all just wanted to visit the eternal city together and this was a good excuse ;) 

It appears that the barbarian hordes are at the gates of Rome again :P 

I am sure that when Peter and Paul came to Rome they were regarded as barbarians.  8)

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12 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

I am sure that when Peter and Paul came to Rome they were regarded as barbarians.  8)

Paul was a Roman citizen :P 

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On 3/8/2019 at 12:35 PM, Storm Rider said:

Although St. Peter's goes without saying, but then it becomes a choice of which one? There are just too many that should be seen for their beauty, artwork, and for the fact they are sacred places.

Storm Rider, hi.

You are right. My wife has made a little travelogue that details with word and pictures a few of the many highlights of our short time in Italy and especially Rome, a couple of years ago. If anyone would be interested it can be accessed from the internet here: http://acoininthetrevi.blogspot.com/

One should start at the very bottom to read her story told chronologically.

I want to say that for any visitor, there is a lot of joyful activity to be had. American ice cream will never be the same for me after getting "hooked" on Italian gelato while there. I know you guys aren't big on wine, but the prices are amazing. 10 euros for three bottles that might have been $45 at home. For sake of time we missed going inside the Colosseum, although we had lunch outside its massive exterior. Our experience would confirm what someone else said about the low quality and higher price of meals very near the greater tourist attractions. But sometimes it is really worth it. From the Colosseum, it was easy walking distance to the ruins of Old Rome, where the Caesars dwelt. It seems well preserved considering the centuries that have passed. You can get virtually everywhere with a pass in the Metro, underground rails, which are often very crowded, but efficient.

Just this week, I read in one of the books I use to prepare for Lent, a reference to a beautiful church, built on what is called the Aventine Hill. There are beautiful gardens outside the church where one can stroll and gaze from its heights at the city all round, the skyline still dominated by church spires soaring towards heaven. Interestingly, there is for some reason one of those lion's mouths where you can put your hand and it supposedly is bitten off if you tell a lie, on one of the gates at this church. You might remember Gregory Peck and Audrey Hepburn in the movie, Roman Holiday, at a more visited spot, all touristy where people line up to put their hands in. I am glad we skipped that, but it is close to St. Sabina. What I have remembered most is huffing and puffing up this winding hill to the top where the church, which is now the property of the Order of Preachers (Dominican), stands. St. Sabina wasn't my favorite church on the inside, especially after having several days of walking and looking, and now climbing. (I am not as thoughtful and as recollected as my good wife as you will notice if you read her blog.)

So the custom of receiving ashes on the forehead is ancient and was formerly received with other acts of exterior penance. It was a great pictorial aid to my understanding of ancient custom to read this week that "Formerly, it was the practice to approach bare-footed to receive this solemn memento of our nothingness [dust and ashes, from which we came and will return]; and in the twelfth century, even the Pope himself, when passing from the church of St. Anastasia to that of St. Sabina...went the whole distance bare-footed, as also did the Cardinals who accompanied him."  

This is not the first time since our trip that I have read about what used to happen in Rome for this or that celebration and at what churches. While I didn't enjoy St. Sabina so much when I went shod in my comfortable loafers up the hill on a warm June afternoon, I appreciated it the more this week as I pictured the Holy Father bare-footed in early spring leading the princes and people of Rome in expressing sorrow for our sins in anticipation of the holy season that was about to commence. I could never forget Rome. It is still most vivid in a way that other vacations have never been. On the other thread, Miserere Nobis had occasion to say that St. Paul was a Roman citizen. In a different sense, I am unable to consider my own Roman Catholic "citizenship" as anything inferior to Paul's, as a citizen of the Empire. Our trip has solidified my resolve that Rome belongs to whoever will have her, and I will. Whatever scandals or errors or sins might occur within her sacred premises, I belong to her, and she belongs to me, and I will try to protect her. Forgive me for being partial, but after the churches, the catacombs, the Vatican Museum, and all the rest, including the outdoor cafes and friendly street musicians, the city seems more like a beloved mother, than any ordinary place to visit made of streets and markets and houses and other churches too. I am partial. Heh.

I hope you can go someday Storm Rider.

Rory

Edited by 3DOP
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5 minutes ago, 3DOP said:

Storm Rider, hi.

You are right. My wife has made a little travelogue that details with word and pictures a few of the many highlights of our short time in Italy and especially Rome, a couple of years ago. If anyone would be interested it can be accessed from the internet here: http://acoininthetrevi.blogspot.com/

One should start at the very bottom to read her story told chronologically.

I want to say that for any visitor, there is a lot of joyful activity to be had. American ice cream will never be the same for me after getting "hooked" on Italian gelato while there. I know you guys aren't big on wine, but the prices are amazing. 10 euros for three bottles that might have been $45 at home. For sake of time we missed going inside the Colosseum, although we had lunch outside its massive exterior. Our experience would confirm what someone else said about the low quality and higher price of meals very near the greater tourist attractions. But sometimes it is really worth it. From the Colosseum, it was easy walking distance to the ruins of Old Rome, where the Emperors dwelt. It seems well preserved considering the centuries that have passed. You can get virtually everywhere with a pass in the Metro, underground rails, which are often very crowded, but efficient.

Just this week, I read in one of the books I use to prepare for Lent, a reference to a beautiful church, built on what is called the Aventine Hill. There are beautiful gardens outside the church where one can stroll and gaze from its heights at the city all round, the skyline still dominated by church spires soaring towards heaven. Interestingly, there is for some reason one of those lion's mouths where you can put your hand and it supposedly is bitten off if you tell a lie, on one of the gates at this church. You might remember Gregory Peck and Audrey Hepburn in the movie, Roman Holiday, at a more visited spot, all touristy where people line up to put their hands in. I am glad we skipped that, but it is close to St. Sabina. What I have remembered most is huffing and puffing up this winding hill to the top where the church, which is now the property of the Order of Preachers (Dominican), stands. St. Sabina wasn't my favorite church on the inside, especially after having several days of walking and looking, and now climbing. (I am not as thoughtful and as recollected as my good wife as you will notice if you read her blog.)

So the custom of receiving ashes on the forehead is ancient and was formerly received with other acts of exterior penance. It was a great pictorial aid to my understanding of ancient custom to read this week that "Formerly, it was the practice to approach bare-footed to receive this solemn memento of our nothingness [dust and ashes, from which we came and will return]; and in the twelfth century, even the Pope himself, when passing from the church of St. Anastasia to that of St. Sabina...went the whole distance bare-footed, as also did the Cardinals who accompanied him."  

This is not the first time since our trip that I have read about what used to happen in Rome for this or that celebration and at what churches. While I didn't enjoy St. Sabina so much when I went shod in my comfortable loafers up the hill on a warm June afternoon, I appreciated it the more this week as I pictured the Holy Father bare-footed in early spring leading the princes and people of Rome in expressing sorrow for our sins in anticipation of the holy season that was about to commence. I could never forget Rome. It is still most vivid in a way that other vacations have never been. On the other thread, Miserere Nobis had occasion to say that St. Paul was a Roman citizen. In a different sense, I am unable consider my own Roman Catholic "citizenship" as anything inferior to Paul's, as a citizen of the Empire. Our trip has solidified my resolve that Rome belongs to whoever will have her, and I will. Whatever scandals or errors or sins might occur within her sacred premises, I belong to her, and she belongs to me, and I will try to protect her. Forgive me for being partial, but after the churches, the catacombs, the Vatican Museum, and all the rest, including the outdoor cafes and friendly street musicians, the city seems more like a beloved mother, than any ordinary place to visit made of streets and markets and houses and other churches too. I am partial. Heh.

I hope you can go someday Storm Rider.

Rory

Hello Rory,

I am happy that you both enjoyed the trip to the eternal city of Rome. My wife and I have been there five times - it remains one of our favorite cities in the world. Even though we have been several times, there is still so much left to see. Rome is not a city that can be seen in one journey or many, many journeys. We both are enthralled with Rome; it never ceases to amaze.

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29 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

Hello Rory,

I am happy that you both enjoyed the trip to the eternal city of Rome. My wife and I have been there five times - it remains one of our favorite cities in the world. Even though we have been several times, there is still so much left to see. Rome is not a city that can be seen in one journey or many, many journeys. We both are enthralled with Rome; it never ceases to amaze.

Five times. Wow. Oh man...that's great. I am glad for you. I misunderstood you to think otherwise!

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21 minutes ago, 3DOP said:

Five times. Wow. Oh man...that's great. I am glad for you. I misunderstood you to think otherwise!

My intention was to point out that there are so many different churches and cathedrals in Rome that one is easily at a loss on which ones to see. I greatly appreciate Caravaggio's paintings - there is a wonderful little "tour" that helps you discover many of his paintings by going from church to specific church. There is simply too many churches to list for different reasons - the relics they possess, the great art work, the amazing architecture --- and each is a sacred space that has attracted the faithful for centuries. 

I am sorry to confuse you, but grateful that you would share your trip with us. :)

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On 3/8/2019 at 10:31 AM, MiserereNobis said:

I've been to the cathedral in Salt Lake City and the original bishop (when it was built) had the verse about not believing another gospel even if it is preached by an angel painted on the wall. That was a pretty direct rebuke of Mormonism, I thought, in the heart of Mormondom. So, no complaints about a temple in Rome. Any Mormons who pilgrimage to it will get to enjoy the beauties of the Catholic churches of Rome, too :) (hopefully they would go, and I don't say that out of any hope of conversion, but because the churches truly are beautiful)

We do not teach a different gospel than Paul. The gospel he was teaching had 3 points: 1. Belief in the Lord Jesus Christ, 2. Repentence, and 3. belief in the resurrection. Now find where we teach differently? We teach a lot of additional things, but so pray tell does Catholicism.... If that interpretation of that scripture is going to be  your standard, then Catholicism was guilty of teaching a different gospel long before Joseph Smith.... :) So, I'm glad you don't have any complaints about a temple in Rome. 

Why is that a big deal for the Church? Clearly, the Church is treating the temple in Rome a little differently. It has a lot of land, and additional supporting buildings other foreign temples do not usually have. I think one reason for this is that Rome receives a lot of tourism, and it is a chance to present the restored gospel to some of these more religious tourists. I went to a Catholic school, and my senior year we were offered a trip to Europe which of course included a trip to Rome. I still have my pictures of the Vatican. Unfortunately for Christianity, Islam essentially has done the same thing with the dome of the Rock in Jerusalem.

And you are right - Catholics have built cathedrals in Salt Lake City. We are only returning the favor :) 

Edited by RevTestament

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8 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

Paul was a Roman citizen :P 

Yeh, but he (and Peter) still got executed there.

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On 3/9/2019 at 10:38 AM, blueglass said:

The church likely takes a neutral position on the geography of the Bible and subscribes to no official geographical model.  Only affirming that the garden of Eden was located somewhere on "the earth".

 

Are you saying the Church isn't sure if D&C 107 is correct, and that it isn't official that Biblical Adam lived in the area now known as "Missouri"?

 

Quote

53 Three years previous to the death of Adam, he called Seth, Enos, Cainan, Mahalaleel, Jared, Enoch, and Methuselah, who were all high priests, with the residue of his posterity who were righteous, into the valley of Adam-ondi-Ahman, and there bestowed upon them his last blessing.

Honestly, that doesn't sound very "neutral" to me as to whether or not biblical events were taking place in the area now known as Missouri.

Edited by cinepro

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