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Cosmo the Cougar is Gay

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1 minute ago, Tacenda said:

The problem with the same old tripe of saying you sin how you will and I'll sin how I will is getting so old. Let's swap the story around. Now it's me telling you that you sin how you will and I'll sin how I will but in a world where being homosexual is the norm, and being heterosexual is not the norm and marrying heterosexually is a sin. Now take it in. Now I'm same sex married and you are opposite sex married... and now I'm saying you are sinning because you are married heterosexually. How does it feel? Why is this tripe repeated over and over again. Where just by loving and marrying a person you are sinning?  Here's your quote: Don't try to force me to call your sins acceptable and I won't attempt to get you accept my sins are acceptable to God either. 

Lots of people tell religious conservatives that we're sinning and evil and hateful and heartless and clueless all of the time. We deal with it. We don't demand that they charge their values and judgment of right and wrong to accommodate our feelings. 

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39 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

This is such drivel; such bleeding heart, liberal BS posing as a kind heart. You don't have a concept of God's love for his each of his children or his plan for them. You are lost in a mindf**t and cannot define up from down. You project your ignorance on others as you walk through darkness. Get thee behind me.

You sound so angry. Why? 

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18 hours ago, kllindley said:

You mean, except all those LGBTQ who have testimonies of the Doctrine of the Restored Gospel. Because you aren't acting as my Ally. These kinds of comments make me feel the opposite of loved and supported. 

Of course you and anyone else who identifies as LGBTQ is included in the love and equality I'm advocating.  I'm not putting any qualifiers on your personal religious beliefs to be included.  There are a vast array of differing religious opinions all across the spectrum and you are welcome to those beliefs as long as you treat others with dignity, equality and respect.  That is the bottom line for me. 

If you have personal beliefs that certain behaviors are sinful and you want to live your life according to those standards, that is totally fine, we don't have to all agree on the same standards for living to be part of the same religious family.  When people impose their own personal ideals on others in hurtful ways by excluding people or treating others as sinful or second class, that is where I draw the line.  Love others, treat them with respect and dignity, have standards for yourself that you personally live by, and that is all good in my book.  

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For those who haven't seen it, Cosmo achieved some notoriety for the dance below.  I know a Stake President who would do a skit at the Girl's Camp campfire every year, and last year he spent weeks learning the Cosmo dance.  He performed it in a BYU jersey with the video projected behind him. 

 

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18 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

You sound so angry. Why? 

Just really tired of new age philosophical tripe posing as truth; tired of individuals thinking I need to know their sexual preference; tired of the media constantly cramming this tripe down the throats of world citizens; tired of being told this is white when I know it is black; tired of those posing as if they know what love is and yet completely ignorant of eternal consequences and God's path of happiness; tired of the topic because it is not what should be discussed. Sexual preference is not the issue; recognizing that we are all sinners is the real topic. Accepting all those who follow Christ just as they are and accepting that each is on the same path in different places.

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22 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

Just really tired of new age philosophical tripe posing as truth; tired of individuals thinking I need to know their sexual preference; tired of the media constantly cramming this tripe down the throats of world citizens; tired of being told this is white when I know it is black; tired of those posing as if they know what love is and yet completely ignorant of eternal consequences and God's path of happiness; tired of the topic because it is not what should be discussed. Sexual preference is not the issue; recognizing that we are all sinners is the real topic. Accepting all those who follow Christ just as they are and accepting that each is on the same path in different places.

Do you include those who are gay and those who are in a SSM or same sex relationship?

You do seem angry whenever this topic is brought up.  Can you state how those who are gay or those for gay rights and legalized SSM has affected you or your marriage (if you are married) in a personal, negative way?

 

Edited by ALarson
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Just now, ALarson said:

Do you include those who are gay and those who are in SSM?

You do seem angry whenever this topic is brought up.  Can you state how those who are gay or those for gay rights and legalized SSM has affected you or your marriage (if you are married) in a personal, negative way?

Anyone who states they are disciples of Jesus Christ are on the path - their particular sins are are irrelevant - this includes those with SSA or anyone else. It does not matter what their personal sins, shortcomings, failings, misunderstandings; each should be accepted as fellow disciples of Jesus Christ. Discipleship is not simply acknowledging Jesus as the Christ - demons can do that - but that we strive to follow after the Savior of all humanity. Striving and failing is the common state of all disciples of the Christ; the challenge is to continue to strive to follow him.

How I seem in  your eyes is not reality. It has more to say about you than me; individuals are solely responsible for their own perspective. The topic of homosexuality fatigues me and frustrates me. I reject, en toto, the efforts of others to tell me how God should be; what world history should have been; what we should do to be "loving", "tolerant", "accepting" humans. The type of "love" that is most often paraded about is the stuff of cotton candy dreams and wholly failing in any degree of true love that cares of the human soul. I strive to see reality as it is while acknowledging this has been a process of consistent revision as I have found touchstones of truth that has empowered a more clear vision.  

This topic is not allowed to be discussed openly and clearly on this Board. When I have attempted to do so in the past I have been banned from the topic. I believe all sin hinders and disempowers the sinner. The more sin is accepted in a society, the more that society fails. The more falsehood is accepted as truth, the further a people falls into ignorance and lack of faith. 

I have and have had several friends that have chosen this path. Steve was one of my mom's favorites in our branch. He was effeminate, sickly, but had a heart of gold; a great pianist and could twirl a baton better than almost everyone. He eventually left home and worked at Disney World for a few years. He returned home for a short while. He looked great; lost his acne, was more confident in himself and had a vision of where he was going - the church was not included in that path. He left for San Francisco and was dead within twelve months. Another very close friend left his wife after having six children, went through lovers at an astounding rate, married two of them and we have lost touch - the gospel of Jesus Christ has long since being a part of his life. 

The main purpose of this mortal existence is life; "be fruitful and multiply..." - to create life and to parent that life. The homosexual lifestyle is in direct opposition to that main objective. It fails at the most fundamental level to fulfill God's plan. 

The wages of all sin is death. This sin is but one, but it is crushing in its result. Rather than spending time being asked why it is a sin; how does it harm me - which is such a bizarre question - how does any sin harm me?  All my sins harm me just as your sins harm you. This constant discussion clouds the really important message - repent, be baptized and come unto Christ. Know that we will fall short on this path, but keep trying. It is not about what sin we have; it is about our desire to more fully know the Savior and do his will. Stop discussing your sins; talk about your efforts to follow him who died for each of us that we might live. 

 

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13 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

Anyone who states they are disciples of Jesus Christ are on the path - their particular sins are are irrelevant - this includes those with SSA or anyone else. It does not matter what their personal sins, shortcomings, failings, misunderstandings; each should be accepted as fellow disciples of Jesus Christ. Discipleship is not simply acknowledging Jesus as the Christ - demons can do that - but that we strive to follow after the Savior of all humanity. Striving and failing is the common state of all disciples of the Christ; the challenge is to continue to strive to follow him.

How I seem in  your eyes is not reality. It has more to say about you than me; individuals are solely responsible for their own perspective. The topic of homosexuality fatigues me and frustrates me. I reject, en toto, the efforts of others to tell me how God should be; what world history should have been; what we should do to be "loving", "tolerant", "accepting" humans. The type of "love" that is most often paraded about is the stuff of cotton candy dreams and wholly failing in any degree of true love that cares of the human soul. I strive to see reality as it is while acknowledging this has been a process of consistent revision as I have found touchstones of truth that has empowered a more clear vision.  

This topic is not allowed to be discussed openly and clearly on this Board. When I have attempted to do so in the past I have been banned from the topic. I believe all sin hinders and disempowers the sinner. The more sin is accepted in a society, the more that society fails. The more falsehood is accepted as truth, the further a people falls into ignorance and lack of faith. 

I have and have had several friends that have chosen this path. Steve was one of my mom's favorites in our branch. He was effeminate, sickly, but had a heart of gold; a great pianist and could twirl a baton better than almost everyone. He eventually left home and worked at Disney World for a few years. He returned home for a short while. He looked great; lost his acne, was more confident in himself and had a vision of where he was going - the church was not included in that path. He left for San Francisco and was dead within twelve months. Another very close friend left his wife after having six children, went through lovers at an astounding rate, married two of them and we have lost touch - the gospel of Jesus Christ has long since being a part of his life. 

The main purpose of this mortal existence is life; "be fruitful and multiply..." - to create life and to parent that life. The homosexual lifestyle is in direct opposition to that main objective. It fails at the most fundamental level to fulfill God's plan. 

The wages of all sin is death. This sin is but one, but it is crushing in its result. Rather than spending time being asked why it is a sin; how does it harm me - which is such a bizarre question - how does any sin harm me?  All my sins harm me just as your sins harm you. This constant discussion clouds the really important message - repent, be baptized and come unto Christ. Know that we will fall short on this path, but keep trying. It is not about what sin we have; it is about our desire to more fully know the Savior and do his will. Stop discussing your sins; talk about your efforts to follow him who died for each of us that we might live. 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Storm Rider said:

Just really tired of new age philosophical tripe posing as truth; tired of individuals thinking I need to know their sexual preference; tired of the media constantly cramming this tripe down the throats of world citizens; tired of being told this is white when I know it is black; tired of those posing as if they know what love is and yet completely ignorant of eternal consequences and God's path of happiness; tired of the topic because it is not what should be discussed. Sexual preference is not the issue; recognizing that we are all sinners is the real topic. Accepting all those who follow Christ just as they are and accepting that each is on the same path in different places.

Honestly you have such a distorted view on this issue.  And you are tired of anyone who has a different view than you.  Your examples of your two gay aquaintances does not mean that every person who is gay and finds someone to share his life with is going to have some tramatic and self distructive life.  Such statements are like saying Ted Bundy joined the Mormon church and ended up being a mass murderer.  Can you see how that kind of comparison and generalization might make some members of the church angry at your narrow point of view?  And more important, it simply not a true perspective about gay people or members of the Church.

So let me talk about my path towards Christ.  I feel His love every day of my life.  I feel his guidance now more than ever.  I feel closer to Christ than I ever did while being in the Church.  I feel my love for my partner.  We just celibrated our 10th aniversary this month.  We are involved in not only family but charity projects.  And after about 13 years of my father and siblings not wanting to have any contact with me, those wounds have been healed and me and my partner regularly get together with them.  We just celebrated my fathers 97th birthday 2 weeks ago..  My partner and I spent last Saturday at the zoo with my grandkids and my own wonderful children.  I am involved in the arts and find much joy in creating pieces that have value to me and many others.  I have lots of friends and feel blessed to have them in my life.  I wake up every day. and thank God for the life and family that I have.

You think that being married and entering the Celestial Kingdom is some kind of wonderful life long dream to head towards.  I wish you well.  But. that is not something I want.  I love my partner way too much and to paraphase Joseph Smith, I would go to hell to be with him.   And yes, I have total peace in trusting God's judgement.  I am not offended or tired or angry that you believe and want something different than me.  Heck if you get offended and disgusted and tired of hearing from anyone that has a different perspective on life, you are going to remain an angry man.  If you want to stop hearing about gay. issues, a good place to start is to stop reading threads about gay issues. 

Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.  In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

God has a place for you and for me and for every other person on this earth that seeks Him.  I am not going to get closer to God following your path any more than you are going to get closer to God following my path.

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2 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

Anyone who states they are disciples of Jesus Christ are on the path - their particular sins are are irrelevant - this includes those with SSA or anyone else. It does not matter what their personal sins, shortcomings, failings, misunderstandings; each should be accepted as fellow disciples of Jesus Christ. Discipleship is not simply acknowledging Jesus as the Christ - demons can do that - but that we strive to follow after the Savior of all humanity. Striving and failing is the common state of all disciples of the Christ; the challenge is to continue to strive to follow him.

How I seem in  your eyes is not reality. It has more to say about you than me; individuals are solely responsible for their own perspective. The topic of homosexuality fatigues me and frustrates me. I reject, en toto, the efforts of others to tell me how God should be; what world history should have been; what we should do to be "loving", "tolerant", "accepting" humans. The type of "love" that is most often paraded about is the stuff of cotton candy dreams and wholly failing in any degree of true love that cares of the human soul. I strive to see reality as it is while acknowledging this has been a process of consistent revision as I have found touchstones of truth that has empowered a more clear vision.  

This topic is not allowed to be discussed openly and clearly on this Board. When I have attempted to do so in the past I have been banned from the topic. I believe all sin hinders and disempowers the sinner. The more sin is accepted in a society, the more that society fails. The more falsehood is accepted as truth, the further a people falls into ignorance and lack of faith. 

I have and have had several friends that have chosen this path. Steve was one of my mom's favorites in our branch. He was effeminate, sickly, but had a heart of gold; a great pianist and could twirl a baton better than almost everyone. He eventually left home and worked at Disney World for a few years. He returned home for a short while. He looked great; lost his acne, was more confident in himself and had a vision of where he was going - the church was not included in that path. He left for San Francisco and was dead within twelve months. Another very close friend left his wife after having six children, went through lovers at an astounding rate, married two of them and we have lost touch - the gospel of Jesus Christ has long since being a part of his life. 

The main purpose of this mortal existence is life; "be fruitful and multiply..." - to create life and to parent that life. The homosexual lifestyle is in direct opposition to that main objective. It fails at the most fundamental level to fulfill God's plan. 

The wages of all sin is death. This sin is but one, but it is crushing in its result. Rather than spending time being asked why it is a sin; how does it harm me - which is such a bizarre question - how does any sin harm me?  All my sins harm me just as your sins harm you. This constant discussion clouds the really important message - repent, be baptized and come unto Christ. Know that we will fall short on this path, but keep trying. It is not about what sin we have; it is about our desire to more fully know the Savior and do his will. Stop discussing your sins; talk about your efforts to follow him who died for each of us that we might live. 

 

Why did God create the homosexual then? Does He make mistakes? You appear to be saying they are not following the plan God put forth. But what if God created them and has something in mind for more than you know. I think it would make you less stressed to let it be. They've been treated unfairly all these years and it's time to let it be, let them be. Your friend was married and six children because most likely he was treated the way California Boy was treated and told that they must marry a woman, and maybe each of them thought the gayness would go away. But again, think if you were told to marry a male and it is reversed, how would that make you feel, if you are a heterosexual?

Edited by Tacenda

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9 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

But again, think if you were told to marry a male and it is reversed, how would that make you feel, if you are a heterosexual?

As I've noted before, I was raised in a culture that did not have the categories of homo- or heterosexual. Consequently, the whole notion of having to be one or the other just doesn't make sense to me. It's likewise historically anomalous. Western colonisation of the imagination has gone far in spreading these constructs over the course of the past 100 years or so, but they still haven't become universally normalised, as acknowledged by historians (including queer ones), anthropologists and linguists. So how would I respond if God told me to marry a man? I'd start looking. Who knows? It might prove easier than finding a female partner has so far! :D

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4 hours ago, hope_for_things said:

Of course you and anyone else who identifies as LGBTQ is included in the love and equality I'm advocating.  I'm not putting any qualifiers on your personal religious beliefs to be included.  There are a vast array of differing religious opinions all across the spectrum and you are welcome to those beliefs as long as you treat others with dignity, equality and respect.  That is the bottom line for me. 

If you have personal beliefs that certain behaviors are sinful and you want to live your life according to those standards, that is totally fine, we don't have to all agree on the same standards for living to be part of the same religious family.  When people impose their own personal ideals on others in hurtful ways by excluding people or treating others as sinful or second class, that is where I draw the line.  Love others, treat them with respect and dignity, have standards for yourself that you personally live by, and that is all good in my book.  

I appreciate your effort here to clarify. If you are willing to continue a conversation, I would like to understand your position better. It seems that you are saying I can have my personal belief, but that I'm not allowed to teach it as a universal truth.  Is that accurate?

 

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On 2/26/2019 at 7:00 PM, california boy said:

Your whole post is laced with accusations of being gay equals sin.  The article said nothing about whether he was celibate or not.  

Have you ever been assumed to be sinning simply because you are not attracted to the same sex?  

 

Ding, ding, ding!!!

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2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Why did God create the homosexual then? Does He make mistakes? You appear to be saying they are not following the plan God put forth. But what if God created them and has something in mind for more than you know. I think it would make you less stressed to let it be. They've been treated unfairly all these years and it's time to let it be, let them be. Your friend was married and six children because most likely he was treated the way California Boy was treated and told that they must marry a woman, and maybe each of them thought the gayness would go away. But again, think if you were told to marry a male and it is reversed, how would that make you feel, if you are a heterosexual?

Tacenda, really, this is your thoughts? Did God create the murderer? the adulterer? How about the child molester - did God create all those things? No - God created his children and they have chosen both good and bad. How many times do science have to tell us that sexual preference is fluid? That humans have the ability to choose?  Some of us are easily thrown to attractions to the opposite sex; some of us are attracted to the same sex. I don't have a clue why; I just know that is the way it is. 

Nope, you are dead wrong. He fell in love with a woman who fit him like a glove and they had a great marriage. Guess what? He was also attracted to individuals of the same sex. He made choices - love the guy regardless of his choices, but he still CHOSE. That utter BS you hear that it is the only way I am - that is the lie activists try to get humans to swallow. Those scientists and psychologists that tell people that sexuality if fluid - they area shouted down because it does not fit the social agenda. Gads, why do you think every person with SSA was belittled and treated poorly?  Get a clue - it is the preferred intersectionality (hate that stupid construct activists throw around like it has real value to anyone but themselves) for all humans. If you ain't gay - you are definitely not cool.

Lastly, here is the most heinous example you have thrown out twice - If God the world and just created gay people - there is no other life. It is dad in one, single generation. It is a choice that is a total deadend; it does not self-propagate; it does not grow by itself. It dies. This is a strawman that is totally meaningless, but it danged if those that hear about aren't not supposed to immediately crumble into a bleeding heart because they are supposed to pity all those with SSA.

Here is what I know about those with SSA - they are beautiful, wonderful humans. Some have gifts of creativity that dwarf the human mind. They love deeply, passionately and are fiercely loyal. I can say the exact same things about all other humans - humans that are murderers, child molestors, thieves, liars, adulterers,  - the list is endless. What I know is that they are each and everyone a human being, a child of God. Their choices of how they live their lives are their own. A single choice does not invalidate them as humans. How often have people on this Board condemned child molesters or any of a number of different sins. That they are hated and reviled for the choices they have made! They are just humans; that is all. They don't need to judged or hated and despised.

We need to understand and know our weaknesses and build ways to strengthen our desire to follow the Savior. We need to help others to follow the Savior also - not by telling them or identifying what their sins are, but by accepting them as on the path back to our Father in Heaven. The longer we walk towards God and fall in love with him, the more He will reveal what our choices should be. 

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3 hours ago, california boy said:

 

Honestly you have such a distorted view on this issue.  And you are tired of anyone who has a different view than you.  Your examples of your two gay aquaintances does not mean that every person who is gay and finds someone to share his life with is going to have some tramatic and self distructive life.  Such statements are like saying Ted Bundy joined the Mormon church and ended up being a mass murderer.  Can you see how that kind of comparison and generalization might make some members of the church angry at your narrow point of view?  And more important, it simply not a true perspective about gay people or members of the Church.

So let me talk about my path towards Christ.  I feel His love every day of my life.  I feel his guidance now more than ever.  I feel closer to Christ than I ever did while being in the Church.  I feel my love for my partner.  We just celibrated our 10th aniversary this month.  We are involved in not only family but charity projects.  And after about 13 years of my father and siblings not wanting to have any contact with me, those wounds have been healed and me and my partner regularly get together with them.  We just celebrated my fathers 97th birthday 2 weeks ago..  My partner and I spent last Saturday at the zoo with my grandkids and my own wonderful children.  I am involved in the arts and find much joy in creating pieces that have value to me and many others.  I have lots of friends and feel blessed to have them in my life.  I wake up every day. and thank God for the life and family that I have.

You think that being married and entering the Celestial Kingdom is some kind of wonderful life long dream to head towards.  I wish you well.  But. that is not something I want.  I love my partner way too much and to paraphase Joseph Smith, I would go to hell to be with him.   And yes, I have total peace in trusting God's judgement.  I am not offended or tired or angry that you believe and want something different than me.  Heck if you get offended and disgusted and tired of hearing from anyone that has a different perspective on life, you are going to remain an angry man.  If you want to stop hearing about gay. issues, a good place to start is to stop reading threads about gay issues. 

Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.  In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

God has a place for you and for me and for every other person on this earth that seeks Him.  I am not going to get closer to God following your path any more than you are going to get closer to God following my path.

Cal, that is the activist agenda talking - now tell the truth about the gay lifestyle. How many commit suicide? How many have mental/emotional challenges? How many have health problems. Now compare those to the society at large - are they higher percentages or not?  Maybe I am reading all the wrong journals and am unaware of how healthy this lifestyle is and that there are no differences between a heterosexual lifestyle and a homosexual lifestyle.  Btw, I just used two examples and could go on with similar stories - I suspect you know people who have experienced the same things. My friends are not unique; their story has been lived countless times by others. 

I have never felt you were not on a path to Christ; I have always seen you as a fellow disciple of Jesus Christ. Why do you think I would perceive you any differently? As I have told you before, I am certain we would be good friends if we lived close to one another. Happy Anniversary to you and your partner by the way. 

Everything you stated to describe the activities in your life just supports my statements that you are human just like everyone else. 

We are each on different points in our discipleship. You have often brought this point up about the Celestial Kingdom and how much you reject that vision. All I can say is that you and I don't have a clue what it means to be one with the Father and the Son. You talk as if you already know what that is and are confident that whatever it is, you reject UNLESS it also includes your partner. I suggest that you might want to be open and let God work that out for you. 

You have missed my entire point - it has NOTHING to do with a different viewpoint. Zero, Zilch, nada. It has everything to do with a sexual preference being rammed down the throats of every human alive in this country. That is not a perspective; it is propaganda. It is almost as if activists are so terrified that the choice is wrong they have to keep telling themselves that it is okay. So self-conscious, so insecure. Just bizarre.

I have no doubts that God is there for each of his children regardless of their sins, mistakes, or errors. If we are willing to sacrifice our will and accept his will for our lives we can each do all things through Christ. 

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20 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

Tacenda, really, this is your thoughts? Did God create the murderer? the adulterer? How about the child molester - did God create all those things?

You can’t possibly be comparing those to a person who is born gay, can you?

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19 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

This topic is not allowed to be discussed openly and clearly on this Board. When I have attempted to do so in the past I have been banned from the topic.

That's most likely because you seem so angry and bitter about this topic and then post things that are either hurtful, not true, or get too personal (that border on insults or attacks).  Maybe take a look inward instead of just preaching (which is my impression of your posts)?

And, you didn't really answer my question:

20 hours ago, ALarson said:

Can you state how those who are gay or those for gay rights and legalized SSM has affected you or your marriage (if you are married) in a personal, negative way?

Anything specific here (other than just that this topic "fatigues and frustrates" you)?  Have you actually been hurt or affected by those who are gay or who are in a same sex relationship or marriage?

Edited by ALarson
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14 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

Tacenda, really, this is your thoughts? Did God create the murderer? the adulterer? How about the child molester - did God create all those things? No - God created his children and they have chosen both good and bad. How many times do science have to tell us that sexual preference is fluid? That humans have the ability to choose?  Some of us are easily thrown to attractions to the opposite sex; some of us are attracted to the same sex. I don't have a clue why; I just know that is the way it is. 

Nope, you are dead wrong. He fell in love with a woman who fit him like a glove and they had a great marriage. Guess what? He was also attracted to individuals of the same sex. He made choices - love the guy regardless of his choices, but he still CHOSE. That utter BS you hear that it is the only way I am - that is the lie activists try to get humans to swallow. Those scientists and psychologists that tell people that sexuality if fluid - they area shouted down because it does not fit the social agenda. Gads, why do you think every person with SSA was belittled and treated poorly?  Get a clue - it is the preferred intersectionality (hate that stupid construct activists throw around like it has real value to anyone but themselves) for all humans. If you ain't gay - you are definitely not cool.

Lastly, here is the most heinous example you have thrown out twice - If God the world and just created gay people - there is no other life. It is dad in one, single generation. It is a choice that is a total deadend; it does not self-propagate; it does not grow by itself. It dies. This is a strawman that is totally meaningless, but it danged if those that hear about aren't not supposed to immediately crumble into a bleeding heart because they are supposed to pity all those with SSA.

Here is what I know about those with SSA - they are beautiful, wonderful humans. Some have gifts of creativity that dwarf the human mind. They love deeply, passionately and are fiercely loyal. I can say the exact same things about all other humans - humans that are murderers, child molestors, thieves, liars, adulterers,  - the list is endless. What I know is that they are each and everyone a human being, a child of God. Their choices of how they live their lives are their own. A single choice does not invalidate them as humans. How often have people on this Board condemned child molesters or any of a number of different sins. That they are hated and reviled for the choices they have made! They are just humans; that is all. They don't need to judged or hated and despised.

We need to understand and know our weaknesses and build ways to strengthen our desire to follow the Savior. We need to help others to follow the Savior also - not by telling them or identifying what their sins are, but by accepting them as on the path back to our Father in Heaven. The longer we walk towards God and fall in love with him, the more He will reveal what our choices should be. 

My niece and nephew have been through heck and back over being gay. They didn't choose to be gay. Definitely in-born. My nephew's parents didn't ever know if they'd find him alive or dead  the next day. Face facts and accept this. Do you honestly think everything in the Bible is fact or could it be some men's feelings? The proof is in the pudding. I like what you said about the awesomeness of the gay induvidual though, it's true. But if you had a relative or someone close you will surely have to have come up with a different opinion...or not.

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15 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

Did God create the murderer? the adulterer? How about the child molester - did God create all those things

Did God create the heterosexual in your view?  I am curious as to your world view.

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14 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

now tell the truth about the gay lifestyle. How many commit suicide? How many have mental/emotional challenges? How many have health problems. Now compare those to the society at large - are they higher percentages or not? 

Unless the higher percentages are a majority (and even then it might be correlation and not causation), how can you demonstrate there is some inherently damaging thing in thinking one is SSA...who might even not identify as gay until later in their lives? (Because many as reported over the years with mental health issues or suicidal ideation have never acted on those feelings or lived a lifestyle where others could tell they had that such attractions, etc.)

And exactly what do you mean by "gay lifestyle"?  Is this a lifestyle anyone identifying as gay automatically lives or is it one that has a much more limited population and therefore can't really be applied to all who identify as gay?

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My friends are not unique; their story has been lived countless times by others. 

In terms of numbers and possibly percentages due to the crowds I have hung out with over the years, I know a lot more of those who identify as heterosexuals who have had self destructive tendencies than I have known those who identify as gay with self destructive tendencies.  If the fact you can find countless examples is proof, the "heterosexual lifestyle" dooms people.

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31 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

They didn't choose to be gay. Definitely in-born. 

It doesn't have to be in-born even if there is no choice in attraction or showing up very young, especially if we are born with sexual drives that aren't fixated, but more fluid over the years as may be indicated from research (and history...see cultures where same sex behaviour is seen as appropriate, at least among men).

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1 hour ago, Calm said:

Unless the higher percentages are a majority (and even then it might be correlation and not causation), how can you demonstrate there is some inherently damaging thing in thinking one is SSA...who might even not identify as gay until later in their lives? (Because many as reported over the years with mental health issues or suicidal ideation have never acted on those feelings or lived a lifestyle where others could tell they had that such attractions, etc.)

And exactly what do you mean by "gay lifestyle"?  Is this a lifestyle anyone identifying as gay automatically lives or is it one that has a much more limited population and therefore can't really be applied to all who identify as gay?

In terms of numbers and possibly percentages due to the crowds I have hung out with over the years, I know a lot more of those who identify as heterosexuals who have had self destructive tendencies than I have known those who identify as gay with self destructive tendencies.  If the fact you can find countless examples is proof, the "heterosexual lifestyle" dooms people.

You might want to do some google searches on gay men and suicide, gay lifestyle and promiscuity, etc. Your experience is not reflective of facts that gay/bisexual men commit suicide four times more than other men. They are far more promiscuous; have more emotional problems and the list goes on. This information is not hidden, just do a few searches and spend some time reading what scientists have found in their own studies on the the gay lifestyle. I will not play word games with you - the gay lifestyle is not uniform, but it is the standard behaviors for the majority of those that claim to be gay and have sex with other men. 

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1 hour ago, Calm said:

Did God create the heterosexual in your view?  I am curious as to your world view.

I believe God created humanity. Last time I read Genesis, there was something to do with the creation of man and woman. When I observe the animal world I see both male and female. Did God intend for his creation to procreate? Yes. Is that heterosexual? Yes. 

Did God create hetersexuality? He created us as male and female. Does that answer your question?

Do you think that God did not create us as male and female? What is the purpose of his creation? Does his creation fulfill God's command by procreating or is that just some old story?  What is the purpose of life? 

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1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

My niece and nephew have been through heck and back over being gay. They didn't choose to be gay. Definitely in-born. My nephew's parents didn't ever know if they'd find him alive or dead  the next day. Face facts and accept this. Do you honestly think everything in the Bible is fact or could it be some men's feelings? The proof is in the pudding. I like what you said about the awesomeness of the gay induvidual though, it's true. But if you had a relative or someone close you will surely have to have come up with a different opinion...or not.

I know what the Plan of Happiness is and I know what it is not. I know that sin leads to death. No, I don't think the Bible or any other scripture is inerrant, but I completely disagree that we get to pick and choose what are and what are not God's commands. When in doubt then listen to the his living prophets. 

The conversation is not homosexuality, but what does it mean to live in accordance with God's commands.  How do we live his commands when we are tempted to sin? What is the value of our passions? Should our human passions be contained, disciplined and held in check? Or, should we let them rule our lives?  

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2 hours ago, ALarson said:

That's most likely because you seem so angry and bitter about this topic and then post things that are either hurtful, not true, or get too personal (that border on insults or attacks).  Maybe take a look inward instead of just preaching (which is my impression of your posts)?

And, you didn't really answer my question:

Anything specific here (other than just that this topic "fatigues and frustrates" you)?  Have you actually been hurt or affected by those who are gay or who are in a same sex relationship or marriage?

Nope, still not playing your game. Your perception of the world has more to say about you than anything else. Your perception of me has nothing to do with me; it has everything to do with you. 

I believe all sin undermines a society. Do I believe that God has specific teachings on our behaviors? Yes, absolutely. Do I think God is wrong. No, not ever. Do I think our passions should be held in check? Yes. 

Personal harm - no. Harm to society? Yes, of course. All sin destroys social structure and its welfare. 

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