Veganism

[RevTestament]

43 minutes ago, Maidservant said:

This is a personal downfall of mine and I'm not sure how I'm going to change it.  While mentally I can say that olive oil, vinegar, and lemon (and perhaps herbs) are a highly nutritious part of the salad, I simply hate the taste.  I can't eat a salad without a bunch of ranch dressing.  I hope that will change sometime in the future, or maybe I can learn to make ranch dressing from coconut milk, but for now I just can't stand eating a salad with that stuff (oil vinegar lemon) poured over it.

Hi Maidservant. I have to have something on my salad too. We recently had a vegan sister missionary over. I made potato salad and carrot salad both with a vegan mayonnaise - if you can get Just Mayo in the large size, it is usually economical. It is at some Wal-Marts, but I typically buy plain Mayo. We also had an Asian cabbage mix I used as coleslaw. When I served myself some lettuce, I added on top the carrot salad, potato salad and coleslaw mix with nut mix, sun flower seeds, cranberries etc on top. Sometimes I use some croutons. I then enjoy my salad immensely with no salad dressing, but will say that most of my salad is not lettuce.... I love to eat my salads like this, and do it at restaurants like The Golden Corral all the time - any place with a salad bar. Of course the oil in the mayonnaise is making up for the oil in salad dressing, but I avoid the ranch dressing.

[pogi]

I have no problem with veganism.  I think it is a healthy and conscientious way to live - much more so than the typical American diet!  I solute anyone who adopts that way of life - just don't turn up your nose to the rest of us!

I consider myself a cheatin' vegan.  I am a firm believer in a whole foods, mostly plant based diet - as the WoW outlines.  I don't abstain from meats completely though - but mostly.  When I do eat meat, I try to eat fish and poultry, but I wont turn down a nice steak or hamburger at a BBQ either.  Everything in moderation with thanksgiving!  I have a chicken coop with chickens on the way this spring for fresh eggs and a vegetable garden with 5 fruit trees and raspberries and blackberries. 

I go through cycles though, I am not always perfect in my diet.  About a month ago I started, or re-started, my green-smoothie breakfast and lunch.  No added sugars and a healthy balance between veggies (7 different greens, zucchini, carrots) ,and fruit (half of one fruit and half cup mixed berries, quarter banana), mixed raw nuts and seeds, quinoa and even beans.  I have never felt more alive!  I am more alert, more energy, sleeping better, improved concentration - I feel happier.  It's not for everybody, but I love this way of life.  

[Maidservant]

2 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

I am not sure the logic that meat eaters must eat their own kill without also having plant eaters not be required to grow all that they choose to eat. Do you think you need to grow everything you eat? If not, the logic does not seem to work and I don't understand this thought process. I am not sure we really disagree much on your intent; but the process does not seem whole or balanced in the way you are expressing it. 

I think everyone would be better off if they worked on farms that had to work for everything they eat. One of the great losses in our age is the loss of connection to the land. People don't know how to grow plants that are harvested for food; they don't know how to raise animals that they will slaughter to eat. Too much concrete in the world and not enough green things.  

As I have aged, what I have noticed most is my lack of appetite for everything. When I do eat meat, an 8 oz steak for example, I hardly eat anything the next day - I am just not hungry. 

Well, you are right, there has to be some 'give' where people do their talents and exchange with each other.   I guess I'm just saying that I have no desire to kill an animal, nor to watch it happen, and I'm pleased to forget it happens in order to provide my grocery store hamburger.  So I can eat more meat because I don't have to think about what has to happen for that.  So I guess I'm saying a little more awareness, and if I had to hunt or raise my own meat, I would perforce be a vegetarian, lol.

1 hour ago, RevTestament said:

Hi Maidservant. I have to have something on my salad too. We recently had a vegan sister missionary over. I made potato salad and carrot salad both with a vegan mayonnaise - if you can get Just Mayo in the large size, it is usually economical. It is at some Wal-Marts, but I typically buy plain Mayo. We also had an Asian cabbage mix I used as coleslaw. When I served myself some lettuce, I added on top the carrot salad, potato salad and coleslaw mix with nut mix, sun flower seeds, cranberries etc on top. Sometimes I use some croutons. I then enjoy my salad immensely with no salad dressing, but will say that most of my salad is not lettuce.... I love to eat my salads like this, and do it at restaurants like The Golden Corral all the time - any place with a salad bar. Of course the oil in the mayonnaise is making up for the oil in salad dressing, but I avoid the ranch dressing.

Thanks for the tips!  I do put a lot of additions in my salad too, but I do usually have spring greens (not iceberg).  I'll try making a dressing with vegan mayo.

[HappyJackWagon]

Just checking in to say I'm getting ready to eat some delicious pork ribs for lunch. Mmmmmm Mmmmm Good!

Honestly, I don't eat a ton of meat, hardly any red meat. So when I do, it's a bit of a treat. God created all things and in all things there is a purpose. Being food is one of those purposes for some creatures  

[BlueDreams]

On 2/24/2019 at 8:55 PM, CMZ said:

I am seeing a huge rise in veganism over the last few years. I have a lot of thoughts on it myself but wanted to throw it out to this crowd who is coming from an LDS perspective (and I know there's still a lot of different perspectives in this group). I 100% get that we should be kind to animals and I don't like animals being kept in squalid, cramped conditions; but remove that from the equation and there is still animals being killed for food. And numerous scriptures seem to be okay with that (including D&C 59, D&C 89, Nephi being led to game for food, Jesus eating fish and providing fish to others for food, etc.), while also saying that it shouldn't be used in excess. But every day it seems that 10,000 new vegans are created and they are extremely vocal about how bad it is to ever have meat, or even to have eggs, milk, honey, etc. Thoughts?

I finally have a minute to address the OP,  though I'm sure this thread has moved a bit passed it. I'm a whole-foods plant-based vegetarian....but not a vegan. I've been a vegetarian for 17 years now, which for me equals over half of my life. I have two vegan cousins (well one now occasionally eats some dairy, I believe) though neither ID's as LDS currently. I wouldn't describe them as "extremely vocal." They're actually fairly reserved and I find that mot vegans/vegetarian's I've known past the teens are generally cautious about sharing their views in a way that's not too judgy in part because of the stereotype of us being super judgy and peta-radicals. Plus I haven't enjoyed all the judgments and prodding questions thrown my way over the years from meat-eaters. I remember one time a friend of mine wouldn't stop ribbing me about being a vegetarian. So I showed him one video about pig factory farm conditions. I still remember him first arguing back at the video to silence and then later telling me he's worked to incorporate more veggies and fruits into his diet. Though I'll share my views and reasons, I'm not trying to push someone to be like me.

Both vegan, vegetarian, and generally heavily plant-based diets are on the rise....though we're still a small percentage in the US. Animal kindness is only a small part of the reason most people are vegetarian or vegan. The big ones I hear are health, environmental/sustainability concerns, cruelty, and some spiritual reasons. Mine went health --> cruelty --> habit --> environmental/spiritual over time. I'm grateful that I went vegetarian at a pretty young age because it was the marker that changed how I thought about my food, brought me more into gardening, made me a more conscientious buyer of goods, and shifted my diet more and more to one that resonates with the WoW. I'm not vegan because I love cheese and eggs. Just no way around it. But I go for eggs that are either organic and pasture-raised and/or local. Over time I want my own chickens. And I try to buy my cheese from sources I feel are at least aiming for better practices. My milk is also either organic or follow more sustainable practices. They all cost more, which to me feels right. 

On an LDS, spiritual orientation....I think about my diet in terms of the WoW and then earth stewardship. I want to reduce my negative impact on the environment. This oddly has gotten more poignant for me recently, being pregnant. I've found myself more than once wondering what world my daughter would inhabit....what was being lost because of our carelessness with the earth? There's more I could do and we won't be raising our kids strictly vegetarian (my husband isn't vegetarian....though he prefers my diet over the standard american one any day ) but I want them to have a sense of conscientiousness about how our choices impact our home. I find plenty of scriptural references to  direct the belief in earth-stewardship is a sacred duty. The WoW talks about eating meat with great thanksgiving and then also pretty dang rarely or in specific circumstances. Circumstances I've never really had problems with. For me, though I don't think there is something intrinsically evil or wrong about eating meat....I think we've become far removed from the spirit of what eating meat means and practices that are good for the earth or for us really. I get that Jesus ate fish, but Jesus was a part of a community that was far more sustainable to the land around them than we are today....and I doubt it was to the far larger amount of meat consumed in the SAD. And Nephi fits the WoW reference of having meat during times of famine. In other words the context to me is different and that difference means a change in practice to better meet the needs of our current society. Again, I'm not saying that means everybody must eat like I do and forego meat entirely. But we'd all very much benefit in reducing foods that don't match the WoW and being more mindful or seeking practices that are more environmentally sustainable in the long run, IMHO. 

I do think that the experience of being a vegetarian pushed me into healthier food-choices and directions. In part in response to so many people asking how I got this or that vitamin, but also with some of the underlying constructs that are reasons for me being a vegetarian.

I don't think I've seen many vegans on this thread....but plenty of smaller judgments of those who decide on a vegan diet. Which I find a little silly. I've learned and enjoyed from my vegan cousins and by accommodating their food restrictions, I've learned a few more things myself about food and cooking that have been further beneficial to my health. I'm sometimes surprised how reactive people can get about vegan or vegetarian meals. I make a delish vegan pancake, but when I brought this up to some ward friends there was a noticeable recoil to the idea of eating it. I don't necessarily promote a vegan or even vegetarian diet outright...but I think that they along with other plant-based (preferably whole foods) diets are more in line with the WoW than what is more common in certain western cultures. 

for an LDS vegan or WFPB diet focus, here's a few videos that may be of interest

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82xBjqPKAQc

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMfX664LXYoTonHUH29SlGA

With luv,

BD

Edited February 26, 2019 by BlueDreams

[cacheman]

On 2/24/2019 at 9:55 PM, CMZ said:

I am seeing a huge rise in veganism over the last few years. I have a lot of thoughts on it myself but wanted to throw it out to this crowd who is coming from an LDS perspective (and I know there's still a lot of different perspectives in this group). I 100% get that we should be kind to animals and I don't like animals being kept in squalid, cramped conditions; but remove that from the equation and there is still animals being killed for food. And numerous scriptures seem to be okay with that (including D&C 59, D&C 89, Nephi being led to game for food, Jesus eating fish and providing fish to others for food, etc.), while also saying that it shouldn't be used in excess. But every day it seems that 10,000 new vegans are created and they are extremely vocal about how bad it is to ever have meat, or even to have eggs, milk, honey, etc. Thoughts?

When I was a believing member of the church, I had an experience that led me to re-evaluate what I thought the scriptures said.  It was D&C 49 that came to my mind while in the process of killing an animal for food.  The section talks about how it is wrong to mandate the abstention of meat, but then ended with Jesus saying something like 'woe unto those who sheddeth blood who hath no need' (I might have garbled the actual quote).  It occurred to me that I didn't need to eat meat.  I've carried that thought with me over the years and have tested it in my life.  I haven't needed animal products for many years, and so why would I purposefully kill, or cause to be killed, an animal.  Plants on the other hand must be consumed in order for us just to survive. If a need for animal products was there, then I would consume animal products.

I understand that others interpret that scripture differently than I did.  I just wanted to give you the personal perspective that I had when I was LDS.

-cacheman

 

[BlueDreams]

19 hours ago, RevTestament said:

It is accurate. Call them what you will - the fact remains that the longest lived people are not strict vegans, and I discount the description that fish is 1% of the average Okinawan's diet. They typically eat fish 3 times per week on average. That is more than 1% of their diet. They also eat squid and octopus. I occasionally eat shrimp. Unfortunately fish is expensive where I live, but I do eat it occasionally. You will note that their men are not as long lived - this may be attributable to the large amounts of soy. 

In other long lived populations other animal products such as yogurt are important. Again my claim is that there is no study showing that strict vegans are the longest lived people. You can claim I am inaccurate when you show such a study. I have no problem with the position that a plant-based diet is the healthiest diet, and I think the longest lived populations DO show that - which supports the word of wisdom. I also believe that I do follow my belief in this regard - that is I eat a plant based diet with 6-8 ozs of dairy (yogurt/cheese) per day and 6-10 oz of meat/poultry/seafood per day. I am just naughty and like some sweets - esp chocolate. I would say 75% - 85% of my daily diet is plant based - that includes plant based sugar.   Cheers.

 

Walden was talking about a plant-based diet...which is not the same (though they can be) as a vegan diet. Every blue zone diet is still plant-based. I have a heavily plant based diet but i’m not vegan. That’s what i was referring to as to not being accurate. In your response it placed an emphasis on the meat or dairy  of the okinawan/other ling-lived populations where the emphasis and bulk of long life populations that are studied emphasize plants with meats or animal dericatives being sparse or tiny in proportions. The okinawan diet was more veggie oriented than anything else. I’m just reporting on the stats and figures i found on the diet which all point to the meat being small and sparingly used. Like really really small. Smaller than i even eat (at least compared to dairy and egg intake). Emphasizing their meats in most blue zone diets just doesn’t bode accurate to me.

from what i’ve read study-wise the difficultly with vegan diets is that a) they’re not a set population like blue zones are b) they’re usually younger so longevity is guess work c) people who go vegan often overlap with conscientious/health oriented  people anyways. 

Cfr on the men and possible soy connection?? I looked up the age gap...but the gap between men and women is about the same as you see in the US (5-6 yrs). But okinawans both lived longer than americans based on gender by 8-9 yrs.

 Kudos on good food  

with luv,

bd

 

Edited February 26, 2019 by BlueDreams

[RevTestament]

12 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

So you spend several hours per day producing your own coconut milk then?

Link?

That was something I read some years ago - don't think i am going to be able to find the link now, but it also talked about the biased way the studies were used. Only the countries with increased heart disease were discussed. Countries where high amounts of saturated fats were consumed, but showed no increased risk of heart disease were left out of the hype in American media. Ever since Americans have tried to eat "low-fat" and have bought all the processed foods loaded with carbs and unsaturated fats, while getting fatter.

There are plenty of links though which talk about the high fat coconut diets in Polynesia and elsewhere - as well as the lack of ill health.

https://www.aocs.org/stay-informed/inform-magazine/featured-articles/coconut-oil-boom-may-2016

Talks about heart health of Polynesians and their high fat diet of coconut. Their heart health is probably attributable to increased "good" HDL cholesterol. 

https://www.organiclifestylemagazine.com/the-war-on-coconut-oil

Talks about a legal war against coconut oil claims of being a healthy fat. Also mentions that in the 1940s when farmers tried to fatten up their cattle/livestock with coconut oil, they grew leaner instead. It also mentions coconut oil may be beneficial against developing Alzheimer's Disease because it provides a ketogenic source of energy to the brain when the glucose path becomes problematic in the body.

https://physicalculturestudy.com/2014/12/04/why-coconut-oil-isnt-fit-for-pigs/  Says that after WW II, "When US pig farmers tried to use coconut oil to fatten up their livestock, they were met with horrifying results. Rather than fatten up the animals, the coconut oil had in fact made the pigs leaner thanks to the pro-thyroid properties of the oil." So the plan to help the Philippine economy by buying their coconut failed. In the mean time the American vegetable oil industry used studies by Ancel Keys to convince Americans of the evils of saturated fats Americans had been using prior to the war when Americans were relatively healthy. Americans drove coconut oil products out of the grocery stores because they would not buy saturated fats, and replaced them with vegetable oils, and the health of Americans has suffered while obesity has gone up.

I am certainly not advocating a switch to saturated animal fats, palm oil, etc, but I think the issue is much more involved than Americans were led to believe in the 1950s and 1960s, and that the fear-mongering against the saturated fats of coconut oil was apparently unjustified, and a way to prop up the new vegetable oil industries in the U.S.

Edited February 26, 2019 by RevTestament

[CMZ]

11 hours ago, RevTestament said:

In this day and age I would say no. Any toxins in animals  are usually concentrated in their fat. I do not advise increasing intake of animal fats, and I will typically trim any excess fat on my stew meat. Many chips are fried in canola oil. It is cheap. The deal with most vegetable oils is that they were introduced in WW II to replace coconut oil and palm oil. After the war the American companies then went on an anti-saturated fat campaign to convince Americans to not reintroduce coconut oil. However, the international studies don't support the contention that all saturated fats are harmful. 

The thing about vegetable oils is that they load us up with omega 6 fats which aren't particularly helpful to us. Coconut oil also has mid-chain fatty acids which are not a saturated fat, and have anti fungal and anti-bacterial properties: lauric acid and caprylic acid. Olive oil is technically not a vegetable oil - it is a fruit. Have you ever had french fries fried with a blend of olive oil and peanut oil? Yum. I feel coconut oil would be another healthy choice for making potato chips - good luck finding those at the store though.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating eating potato chips. Potatoes are kind of a simple carb which can elevate blood sugar levels. They do, however, also have a lot of potassium which is needed to be able to store that sugar as glycogen rather than fat - each glycogen molecule also has a potassium. So as long as you don't eat too much, they are probably OK, as the body will convert the carbs to glycogen to be stored in the liver and muscles for later use - given some moderate daily exercise.

I find that everything in nature has an upside and a downside, and that the problem is addressed somewhat when we eat a variety of foods.

[CMZ]

4 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

I like my hot coco mixed half and half with Pero. Love it, actually. 

Maidservant I wish I could eliminate sugar. I’ve never made it a single day. 

Monkfruit makes a great natural sugar alternative.

[CMZ]

10 hours ago, RevTestament said:

Studies like the China study do make a correlation between continual consumption of cow's milk and various maladies including prostate cancer. You make want to check that out. i am not convinced cow milk is particularly healthy. I stopped drinking it when I became lactose intolerant.

You can buy fresh coconut milk in a carton. If you do use canned coconut milk with unknown canning procedures, don't scrape the sides of the can as BPA binds to fat, and so that fat on the sides is going to act like a chemical barrier. 

There's all sorts of complications with the milk topic, like if it comes from cows, goats, or sheep, and even what kind of cows it comes from, and also if you do or do not have the gene that helps you digest it properly. Milk used to somewhat bother my wife's stomach until we switched to A2 milk. I've read too much to make me think "milk" is automatically bad. I have been trying to find sheep's milk to try but it is almost, or totally, impossible to get in my area.

[CMZ]

3 hours ago, Maidservant said:

This is a personal downfall of mine and I'm not sure how I'm going to change it.  While mentally I can say that olive oil, vinegar, and lemon (and perhaps herbs) are a highly nutritious part of the salad, I simply hate the taste.  I can't eat a salad without a bunch of ranch dressing.  I hope that will change sometime in the future, or maybe I can learn to make ranch dressing from coconut milk, but for now I just can't stand eating a salad with that stuff (oil vinegar lemon) poured over it.

 

Maybe see if there's a Ranch dressing without sugar.

[CMZ]

Ingredients in Hidden Valley brand ranch dressing:
 

Quote

Vegetable oil, egg yolk, sugar, salt, buttermilk, spices, garlic, onion, vinegar, phosphoric acid, xanthan gum, modified food starch, MSG, artificial flavors, disodium phosphate, sorbic acid, calcium disodium EDTA, disodium inosinate and disodium guanylate.

 

Ingredients in a make-your-own version found at https://www.gimmesomeoven.com/homemade-ranch-seasoning-mix/:

• Quote

   

  • 1/3 cup dry powdered buttermilk
  • 2 tablespoons dried parsley
  • 1 1/2 teaspoons dried dill weed
  • 2 teaspoons garlic powder
  • 2 teaspoons onion powder
  • 2 teaspoons dried onion flakes
  • 1 teaspoon ground black pepper
  • 1 teaspoon dried chives
  • 1 teaspoon salt

   

   

No sugar, no MSG, no other weird stuff.

Edited February 26, 2019 by CMZ

[RevTestament]

17 minutes ago, BlueDreams said:

Walden was talking about a plant-based diet...which is not the same (though they can be) as a vegan diet. Every blue zone diet is still plant-based. I have a heavily plant based diet but i’m not vegan. That’s what i was referring to as to not being accurate. In your response it placed an emphasis on the meat or dairy  of the okinawan/other ling-lived populations where the emphasis and bulk of long life populations that are studied emphasize plants with meats or animal dericatives being sparse or tiny in proportions. The okinawan diet was more veggie oriented than anything else. I’m just reporting on the stats and figures i found on the diet which all point to the meat being small and sparingly used. Like really really small. Smaller than i even eat (at least compared to dairy and egg intake). Emphasizing their meats in most blue zone diets just doesn’t bode accurate to me.

from what i’ve read study-wise the difficultly with vegan diets is that a) they’re not a set population like blue zones are b) they’re usually younger so longevity is guess work c) people who go vegan often overlap with conscientious/health oriented  people anyways. 

I essentially agree. I may have been being unfair to Walden's intent because he mentioned Vegan. But he did stress that the increase in life span was connected with "a plant-based diet" with which I concur. I feel the Word of Wisdom is in complete alignment with this. I concluded, however, "I also don't believe that strict vegan has been shown to lead to the longest life spans." I continue to stand by this statement. Strict veganism is a strict plant diet rather than a "plant-based" diet which I feel I eat. I agree that Okinawans and Loma Linda Adventists and other long-lived peoples eat a plant-based diet. It is just not a strictly vegan diet. So it may just be an issue of what one means by a "plant-based diet." I don't particularly take that to mean veganism, which is why I began that post with "Maybe."

17 minutes ago, BlueDreams said:

Cfr on the men and possible soy connection?? I looked up the age gap...but the gap between men and women is about the same as you see in the US (5-6 yrs). But okinawans both lived longer than americans based on gender by 8-9 yrs.

with luv,

bd

No link. Soy has been noted to have estrogenic effects on men. Decreased testosterone is linked to lower energy, metabolism and increased abdominal obesity in men, which is why I said men may not fair as well on a high soy diet. I don't believe there are any studies showing men fair as well as women on a high soy diet. Traditionally, Okinawans did not have a high soy diet. They had a diet high in purple sweet potato, so I don't think they provide a good sample of a claim for the health of soy foods in a male population. Another issue with soy is that some has been gmo'ed to withstand spray with glysophate, and I don't know what issues there may be with eating such crops. Soy and corn are probably the two highest gmo'ed  crops. There are some alleged links between glysophate exposure and cancer.

[CMZ]

27 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

That was something I read some years ago - don't think i am going to be able to find the link now, but it also talked about the biased way the studies were used. Only the countries with increased heard disease were discussed. Countries where high amounts of saturated fats were consumed, but showed no increased risk of heart disease were left out of the hype in American media. Ever SINCE Americans have tried to eat "low-fat" and have bought all the processed foods loaded with carbs and unsaturated fats, while getting fatter.

Yes, check out this bit in Consumer Reports that I took a photo of: https://flic.kr/p/YZJYiu

 

[CMZ]

2 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

Decreased testosterone is linked to lower energy, metabolism and increased abdominal obesity in men, which is why I said men may not fair as well on a high soy diet.

"fare" as well

[CMZ]

3 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

Another issue with soy is that some has been gmo'ed to withstand spray with glysophate

A ton of stuff is sprayed with that.

[CMZ]

1 hour ago, cacheman said:

When I was a believing member of the church, I had an experience that led me to re-evaluate what I thought the scriptures said.  It was D&C 49 that came to my mind while in the process of killing an animal for food.  The section talks about how it is wrong to mandate the abstention of meat, but then ended with Jesus saying something like 'woe unto those who sheddeth blood who hath no need' (I might have garbled the actual quote).  It occurred to me that I didn't need to eat meat.  I've carried that thought with me over the years and have tested it in my life.  I haven't needed animal products for many years, and so why would I purposefully kill, or cause to be killed, an animal.  Plants on the other hand must be consumed in order for us just to survive. If a need for animal products was there, then I would consume animal products.

I understand that others interpret that scripture differently than I did.  I just wanted to give you the personal perspective that I had when I was LDS.

-cacheman

 

D&C 89 talks about how meat should only be used in times of famine.

[pogi]

1 hour ago, cacheman said:

When I was a believing member of the church, I had an experience that led me to re-evaluate what I thought the scriptures said.  It was D&C 49 that came to my mind while in the process of killing an animal for food.  The section talks about how it is wrong to mandate the abstention of meat, but then ended with Jesus saying something like 'woe unto those who sheddeth blood who hath no need' (I might have garbled the actual quote).  It occurred to me that I didn't need to eat meat.  I've carried that thought with me over the years and have tested it in my life.  I haven't needed animal products for many years, and so why would I purposefully kill, or cause to be killed, an animal.  Plants on the other hand must be consumed in order for us just to survive. If a need for animal products was there, then I would consume animal products.

I understand that others interpret that scripture differently than I did.  I just wanted to give you the personal perspective that I had when I was LDS.

-cacheman

I think that is an appropriate interpretation that it should be used in times of need.  It aligns with the WoW which states to eat meat sparingly, and only in times of famine.  I don't remember the last famine in America... 

That passage, of course, was not given as a commandment, but as a principle, or word of wisdom adapted to the capacity of even the weakest of saints.  It does clearly state that it is the "order and will of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days."   In other words, avoiding meat except in times of famine is good for you.

Meat seems to be the exception to the rule of plant based foods.  It is kind of like polygamy in that way, being the exception to the rule of monogamy

We should be applauding those who live up to these standards set by the Lord.

Edited February 26, 2019 by pogi

[Anijen]

14 hours ago, CMZ said:

Very interested to learn what exactly makes factory-farmed eggs more healthy.

I asked the same question. the main reason is the legal regulation the company has regarding the maintenance of the chickens and the eggs.  Many immunizations, shots, the mandatory sanitized conditions (even Dr. Dutton had to showered each time, he onced showered 11 times in one 8 hour period). They are in sanitized pens were the chicken poop and pee is drained away from where the chickens lay, walk, etc. In free range the chickens eat from the ground and more than likely there are many things on the ground being ingested by the chickens...  Brother Dutton told me that when a person is hunting (pheasant, duck, etc.,) the odds of the bird being shot will have an 85% chance of carrying some disease. Since I am an avid hunter, he also told me not to worry it is not usually a consideration because the cooking process will usually eliminate the harm. Also the food and water is carefully monitored for the vitamins antibiotics etc.

[carbon dioxide]

I think the risk of me committing suicide would increase by 5000% if had to do the vegan lifestyle.  Food is one of the few things in life that make life enjoyable.  I would always be in a horrible mood if I could not eat cheese, meat, and other things.

[Hamba Tuhan]

As a Latter-day Saint, I don't feel compelled to look past the Word of Wisdom and associated guidelines from the Church for diet advice. It seems to be working for me. I was 68.4 kg this morning (150.8 lbs). That gives me a BMI of 22 -- the dead centre of healthy. I donated blood on Christmas Eve, and my blood pressure was 99/63. My heart rate was 60 BPM. As a bonus, observing the other commandments means that I get to honestly give all the right answers on the blood donor questionnaire.  

I can't find the link online, but we've started teaching an 'Eat Healthy and Be Active' self-reliance course in our stake. The stake president in our neighbouring stake has been doing the course there and has lost 20 kg so far. The Church's online guides are spot-on. For example: 

Quote

Balanced nutrition includes drinking plenty of clean water and regularly eating foods from each of six food groups: grains, vegetables, fruits, milk products, meat and beans, and oils. These foods contain six kinds of nutrients: proteins, carbohydrates, fats, minerals, vitamins, and water.

They even include guidelines on how to be healthy with vegetarian and vegan diets. For example:

Quote

Complete proteins may require using:

• Soy protein (e.g., soy milk and tofu).
• Simultaneous consumption of combinations of legumes/lentils, nuts/seeds, grains, and/or selected vegetables such as potatoes.

...

Vegetarians not eating dairy products should:

• Eat enough vegetables containing significant calcium, e.g., spinach, turnip and collard greens, kale, and broccoli.
• Eat calcium fortified foods such as tofu, soy milk, and fortified fruit juices.

The one I've been quoting from even includes a section on obesity, its causes, and its risks and provides guides to develop a sensible weight-loss program, assisted by an online calculator.

Edited February 27, 2019 by Hamba Tuhan

[MustardSeed]

Our food choices are so personal to us, aren’t they. 

[Hamba Tuhan]

51 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Our food choices are so personal to us, aren’t they. 

Absolutely! Shaped by ethnic and national cultures, family culture, and personal preferences. Dinner last night for me consisted of two corn cakes/patties filled with spiced beans (garlic, cummin, culantro and chilli) and a bit of brined cow's milk cheese and cooked slowly in a non-stick pan with no oil, then topped with a salad of shredded cabbage, red onion, fresh tomato from the vine, pickled chillies, salt, cider vinegar and a tiny splash of olive oil. I feel reasonably confident no one else on this board had anything even remotely similar ...

At the same time, we should all be open to refining our choices. We have a brother in our ward who comes from a cultural background where food essentially consists of large quantities of meat and roots, all soaked in fat (much of it in the form of coconut milk). He's been about 150 kg for as long as I've known him, and he's suffered from gout, aches, pains, shortness of breath, etc. The stake president and I visited him last month, and he's now just over 100 kg. He said he's never felt so good and has even started playing rugby again despite being a grandfather. The secret: he has a Hindu coworker* who offered to start bringing him lunch each day if he would agree to eat it. After several months of eating vegetable-based lunches, he's changed his mind about his previous diet. The Word of Wisdom was already there for him, but he had to experience it to learn to prefer it.

-----

*Another example of good people from other faiths doing our work for us!

Edited February 27, 2019 by Hamba Tuhan

[cacheman]

1 hour ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

As a Latter-day Saint, I don't feel compelled to look past the Word of Wisdom and associated guidelines from the Church for diet advice. It seems to be working for me. I was 68.4 kg this morning (150.8 lbs). That gives me a BMI of 22 -- the dead centre of healthy. I donated blood on Christmas Eve, and my blood pressure was 99/63. My heart rate was 60 BPM. As a bonus, observing the other commandments means that I get to honestly give all the right answers on the blood donor questionnaire.  

I can't find the link online, but we've started teaching an 'Eat Healthy and Be Active' self-reliance course in our stake. The stake president in our neighbouring stake has been doing the course there and has lost 20 kg so far. The Church's online guides are spot-on. For example: 

They even include guidelines on how to be healthy with vegetarian and vegan diets. For example:

The one I've been quoting from even includes a section on obesity, its causes, and its risks and provides guides to develop a sensible weight-loss program, assisted by an online calculator.

I think it's great that the LDS church promotes healthy living,  but they might want to update parts of their guide.  The concept of protein combining was demonstrated to be unnecessary about 30 years ago.  They could also mention complete protein plants other than soy..... like quinoa, buckwheat, chia, cannabis, and others.