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rockpond

New bill to require BYU Police to comply with Utah open records laws

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“A Provo senator unveiled a bill this week that would make Brigham Young University’s police department subject to the state’s open records laws.”

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2019/02/21/new-bill-would-force-byu/

 

I’m curious why BYU and the Brethren who oversee the school would be forcing this issue.  Why not just open the records like every other police department in the state?

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This seems like a no brainier.  But I doubt it will make it through the LDS legislature.

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1 hour ago, rockpond said:

“A Provo senator unveiled a bill this week that would make Brigham Young University’s police department subject to the state’s open records laws.”

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2019/02/21/new-bill-would-force-byu/

 

I’m curious why BYU and the Brethren who oversee the school would be forcing this issue.  Why not just open the records like every other police department in the state?

It would certainly force BYU PD to be more business like, and never to defer to the Honor Code system.

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8 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

It would certainly force BYU PD to be more business like, and never to defer to the Honor Code system.

What do you mean by "never to defer to the Honor Code system"?

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10 hours ago, rockpond said:

“A Provo senator unveiled a bill this week that would make Brigham Young University’s police department subject to the state’s open records laws.”

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2019/02/21/new-bill-would-force-byu/

 

I’m curious why BYU and the Brethren who oversee the school would be forcing this issue.  Why not just open the records like every other police department in the state?

People in power will very rarely voluntarily let go of their power.  If the church believes it can hold onto special privileges without too much negative PR blow back, it will do that.  This is the rule, and altruism is the exception to the rule.  

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Shouldn't take a statute.   They (any entity using public resources) can't have it both ways.

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21 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

There is an Honor Code system at BYU which is not part of the BYU PD.  If there is an open records law, that would motivate the BYU PD not to allow itself to be shamelessly used by the Honor Code people.  That would be virtually incestuous and illegal.  Open records of double-dealing would expose some people to lawsuits.  Fear is a great motivator.

So you are saying that BYU administrators have (or could) use the BYU PD for Honor Code enforcement and so abiding by open records laws would prevent that from happening?

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31 minutes ago, rockpond said:

So you are saying that BYU administrators have (or could) use the BYU PD for Honor Code enforcement and so abiding by open records laws would prevent that from happening?

They worked hand in glove in the past, which is or should be Verboten for any law enforcement agency.  Which is why I have recommended in the past that any victim on campus go directly to Provo PD instead of BYU PD.

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del

Edited by cdowis
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I need a bit of clarification.

Scenario: A BYU student is found driving erratically around a campus parking lot at 2 am. by BYU PD . He is tested and found to be over the limit and arrested. A file is created, the student is detained. 

1. Is the BYU PD required to notify the Provo PD and share all evidence?

2. Is the BYU PD required to notify the Honor Code folks about this?

3. How will the new bill change what may  and may not happen in this case?

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9 hours ago, strappinglad said:

I need a bit of clarification.

Scenario: A BYU student is found driving erratically around a campus parking lot at 2 am. by BYU PD . He is tested and found to be over the limit and arrested. A file is created, the student is detained. 

1. Is the BYU PD required to notify the Provo PD and share all evidence?

2. Is the BYU PD required to notify the Honor Code folks about this?

3. How will the new bill change what may  and may not happen in this case?

The new bill does not directly address those issues/questions.  My understanding is that the it would require BYU PD to respond to valid open records requests which they have claimed immunity to in both the 2016 case cited and in last year's case with McKenna Denson's accusations against Joseph L Bishop.

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8 minutes ago, rockpond said:

The proposed legislation has passed committee:

https://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/education/college/byu/bill-requiring-byu-police-to-be-subjected-to-grama-clears/article_0994bf00-c229-58bf-a949-5f2c3e1672a4.amp.html

 

Please, BYU, correct this on your own without the embarrassment of being forced to do it. 

I heard today on the news, a BYU rep saying they are in the process of trying to get it appealed.

Edited by Tacenda

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The Utah legislature has passed SB197 which will require BYU's police department to disclose records like every other police department in the state.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2019/03/12/legislature-has-spoken/

It now needs the governor's signature.

Time for BYU to do the right thing and release the records that have been requested regarding the honor code issue and the Denson-Bishop case.

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45 minutes ago, rockpond said:

The Utah legislature has passed SB197 which will require BYU's police department to disclose records like every other police department in the state.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2019/03/12/legislature-has-spoken/

It now needs the governor's signature.

Time for BYU to do the right thing and release the records that have been requested regarding the honor code issue and the Denson-Bishop case.

What is the definition "the right thing"; and who gets to define it.

 

As I recall a facebook post hers, according to McKenna she already knows what is on the recording.

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2 minutes ago, provoman said:

What is the definition "the right thing"; and who gets to define it.

 

As I recall a facebook post hers, according to McKenna she already knows what is on the recording.

I get to define the right thing. :)

Seriously though, I think the right thing is living up to the intent of the law and being fully transparent.  

As for what Denson claims to know, I'm not sure why that is relevant.  Many don't believe what she has said anyway.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, rockpond said:

The Utah legislature has passed SB197 which will require BYU's police department to disclose records like every other police department in the state.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2019/03/12/legislature-has-spoken/

It now needs the governor's signature.

Time for BYU to do the right thing and release the records that have been requested regarding the honor code issue and the Denson-Bishop case.

Do you think that BYU PD losing its “accreditation” and not being a police force anymore will impact the chances of the governor signing this?

Edited by bluebell

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1 minute ago, bluebell said:

Do you think that BYU losing its “accreditation” and not being a police force anymore will impact the chances of the governor signing this?

I don't know much about the Utah governor so I can't venture a guess.  I'd really prefer that BYU PD remain certified - I think the university should have a full fledged police force on campus.

p.s.  I assume you mean "BYU PD losing its certification".  Nobody is threatening BYU with losing its accreditation (a move which I would certainly oppose on these grounds).

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58 minutes ago, rockpond said:

The Utah legislature has passed SB197 which will require BYU's police department to disclose records like every other police department in the state.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2019/03/12/legislature-has-spoken/

It now needs the governor's signature.

Time for BYU to do the right thing and release the records that have been requested regarding the honor code issue and the Denson-Bishop case.

Does this apply to all records or current and future ones?  Not sure how it could not apply to past records if requested, but iirc there was something about it not being retroactive?

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4 minutes ago, rockpond said:

I don't know much about the Utah governor so I can't venture a guess.  I'd really prefer that BYU PD remain certified - I think the university should have a full fledged police force on campus.

p.s.  I assume you mean "BYU PD losing its certification".  Nobody is threatening BYU with losing its accreditation (a move which I would certainly oppose on these grounds).

Yes, I forgot to add the word PD. Oops. I put accreditation in quotes because I knew it wasn’t the right term but I couldn’t think of what the right term was. 

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1 minute ago, bluebell said:

Yes, I forgot to add the word PD. Oops. I put accreditation in quotes because I knew it wasn’t the right term but I couldn’t think of what the right term was. 

Yeah... the term they used was "decertify".  Tough to keep everything straight.

It'll be sad but I think if they continue to refuse to abide by GRAMA, then decertification is the appropriate action and will likely happen (after appeals play out).

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On 2/26/2019 at 9:11 PM, Tacenda said:

I heard today on the news, a BYU rep saying they are in the process of trying to get it appealed.

How does one appeal a legislative act?

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8 minutes ago, CA Steve said:

How does one appeal a legislative act?

I believe that @Tacenda is referring to the Utah Department of Public Safety decision to decertify BYU's PD.  That decision is something that can be appealed.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900057603/byu-police-decertified-by-state-utah.html

 

So at this point we have the start department which regulates the police force AND the state legislature both telling BYU PD that they need to open up their records.

 

Article of Faith 12:   We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

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