Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Gray

Mormon church won’t oppose gay conversion therapy ban

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Daniel2 said:

Perhaps you haven’t been paying attention. Studies have consistently shown those who undergo conversion/reparative therapies, which is what this bill bans, are MORE likely to commit suicide—not less. This bill seeks to end damaging non-medically-sound practices by licensed professionals that lead to increased suicides. Hardly “standing between the mentally ill and their therapists”—in fact, it advances mental health and diminishes practices leading to increases suicide. 

You ARE right about one thing, though... When I pause to recall the many years of your posting here on the board (mis)characterizing homosexuality, slandering gays and lesbians as “suffering from S.S.A.D.” (what you deemed “Same-Sex-Attraction-Diaorder”) and your accompanying horribalizations of our relationships and families, I probably shouldn’t be making light of your actual positions. 

And I'll endeavor to keep clear on your incessant antipathy towards Christianity, traditional morality, and, specifically, Spencer Kimball.

Edited by USU78
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Daniel2 said:

Perhaps you haven’t been paying attention. Studies have consistently shown those who undergo conversion/reparative therapies, which is what this bill bans, are MORE likely to commit suicide—not less. This bill seeks to end damaging non-medically-sound practices by licensed professionals that lead to increased suicides. Hardly “standing between the mentally ill and their therapists”—in fact, it advances mental health and diminishes practices leading to increases suicide. 

You ARE right about one thing, though... When I pause to recall the many years of your posting here on the board (mis)characterizing homosexuality, slandering gays and lesbians as “suffering from S.S.A.D.” (what you deemed “Same-Sex-Attraction-Diaorder”) and your accompanying horribalizations of our relationships and families, I probably shouldn’t be making light of your actual positions. 

Seriously, though, you should look into the difference between correlation and causation. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Daniel2 said:

Perhaps you haven’t been paying attention. Studies have consistently shown those who undergo conversion/reparative therapies, which is what this bill bans, are MORE likely to commit suicide—not less. This bill seeks to end damaging non-medically-sound practices by licensed professionals that lead to increased suicides. Hardly “standing between the mentally ill and their therapists”—in fact, it advances mental health and diminishes practices leading to increases suicide. 

You ARE right about one thing, though... When I pause to recall the many years of your posting here on the board (mis)characterizing homosexuality, slandering gays and lesbians as “suffering from S.S.A.D.” (what you deemed “Same-Sex-Attraction-Diaorder”) and your accompanying horribalizations of our relationships and families, I probably shouldn’t be making light of your actual positions. 

And thanks for the reminder that one must never, under any circumstances, criticize any person or persons who self identify as homosexual. Unhealthy consequences ensue.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
11 hours ago, USU78 said:

The state certainly belongs right there, inserting itself between the mentally ill and their therapists.

Ridiculous, especially since such legislation presupposes morality is the proximate cause of suicidal ideation and acting out by the mentally ill.

Sometimes yes, the state must step in.  Therapists  and wannabe therapists have a lot of power.  If this type of “ therapy” is shown to do harm, then it needs regulating. 

But I hear you between the lines saying homosexuality is a disorder, and correctable. If you see it so, your statement makes sense based on your belief.  We just see it differently.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
9 hours ago, USU78 said:

And I'll endeavor to keep clear on your incessant antipathy towards Christianity, traditional morality, and, specifically, Spencer Kimball.

CFR 1: that I hold “incessant apathy towards Christianity.”

CFR 2: that I hold “incessant apathy towards traditional morality.”

CFR 3: that I hold “incessant apathy towards Spencer Kimball.”

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

Sometimes yes, the state must step in.  Therapists  and wannabe therapists have a lot of power.  If this type of “ therapy” is shown to do harm, then it needs regulating. 

But I hear you between the lines saying homosexuality is a disorder, and correctable. If you see it so, your statement makes sense based on your belief.  We just see it differently.

I don't share your faith in governments peopled by individuals whose collective virtue is demonstrably notches lower, whose cowardice is notches higher, and whose collective avarice is notches higher than people I spend time with on a weekly basis.

Moreover, I am fearful that the hard-won over centuries liberties and privileges of thee and me are going to be lost in a single generation because of virtuelessness, cowardice, and avarice.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
9 hours ago, USU78 said:

Seriously, though, you should look into the difference between correlation and causation. 

I have. It is widely documented that virtually every major medical and therapeutic organization recognizes that conversion/reparative therapies actually cause and/or increase mental and emotional damage to the subjects themselves, and are not merely correlated to such:

American Academy of Child and Adolescent PsychiatryThe AACAP Policy on “Conversion Therapies” (2018), available at https://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Policy_Statements/2018/Conversion_Therapy.aspx.

"The American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry finds no evidence to support the application of any “therapeutic intervention” operating under the premise that a specific sexual orientation, gender identity, and/or gender expression is pathological. Furthermore, based on the scientific evidence, the AACAP asserts that such “conversion therapies” (or other interventions imposed with the intent of promoting a particular sexual orientation and/or gender as a preferred outcome) lack scientific credibility and clinical utility. Additionally, there is evidence that such interventions are harmful. As a result, “conversion therapies” should not be part of any behavioral health treatment of children and adolescents."

American Academy of PediatricsHomosexuality and Adolescence, 92 Pediatrics 631 (1993), available at http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/92/4/631.full.pdf.

“Therapy directed at specifically changing sexual orientation is contraindicated, since it can provoke guilt and anxiety while having little or no potential for achieving changes in orientation.”


American Association for Marriage and Family TherapyAAMFT Position on Couples and Families (2009), available athttp://www.aamft.org/imis15/content/about_aamft/position_on_couples.aspx.

“[T]he association does not consider homosexuality a disorder that requires treatment, and as such, we see no basis for [reparative therapy]. AAMFT expects its members to practice based on the best research and clinical evidence available.”


American College of PhysiciansLesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Health Disparities: Executive Summary of a Policy Position Paper From the American College of Physicians, Ann Intern Med. Published Online (2015), available athttp://annals.org/article.aspx?articleid=2292051.

“8. The College opposes the use of “conversion,” “reorientation,” or “reparative” therapy for the treatment of LGBT persons.

Available research does not support the use of reparative therapy as an effective method in the treatment of LGBT persons. Evidence shows that the practice may actually cause emotional or physical harm to LGBT individuals, particularly adolescents or young persons. Research done at San Francisco State University on the effect of familial attitudes and acceptance found that LGBT youth who were rejected by their families because of their identity were more likely than their LGBT peers who were not rejected or only mildly rejected by their families to attempt suicide, report high levels of depression, use illegal drugs, or be at risk for HIV and sexually transmitted illnesses. The American Psychological Association literature review found that reparative therapy is associated with the loss of sexual feeling, depression, anxiety, and suicidality.”


American Counseling AssociationEthical Issues Related to Conversion or Reparative Therapy(2013), available athttp://www.counseling.org/news/updates/2013/01/16/ethical-issues-related-to-conversion-or-reparative-therapy.

“The belief that same-sex attraction and behavior is abnormal and in need of treatment is in opposition to the position taken by national mental health organizations, including ACA. The ACA Governing Council passed a resolution in 1998 with respect to sexual orientation and mental health. This resolution specifically notes that ACA opposes portrayals of lesbian, gay and bisexual individuals as mentally ill due to their sexual orientation. . . . In 1999, the Governing Council adopted a statement ‘opposing the promotion of reparative therapy as a cure for individuals who are homosexual.’ . . .

[T]he ACA Ethics Committee strongly suggests that ethical professional counselors do not refer clients to someone who engages in conversion therapy or, if they do so, to proceed cautiously only when they are certain that the referral counselor fully informs clients of the unproven nature of the treatment and the potential risks and takes steps to minimize harm to clients. . . . This information also must be included in written informed consent material by those counselors who offer conversion therapy despite ACA’s position and the Ethics Committee’s statement in opposition to the treatment. To do otherwise violates the spirit and specifics of the ACA Code of Ethics.”


American Medical AssociationHealth Care Needs of Gay Men and Lesbians in the United States, 275 J. Am. Med. ***’n 1354 (1996), available at http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=401656.

“Aversion therapy (a behavioral or medical intervention which pairs unwanted behavior, in this case, homosexual behavior, with unpleasant sensations or aversive consequences) is no longer recommended for gay men and lesbians. Through psychotherapy, gay men and lesbians can become comfortable with their sexual orientation and understand the societal response to it.”


American Medical AssociationH-160.991 Health Care Needs of the Homosexual Population, (reaffirmed 2012), available at http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/about-ama/our-people/member-groups-sections/glbt-advisory-committee/ama-policy-regarding-sexual-orientation.page.

“Our AMA: (c) opposes, the use of ‘reparative’ or ‘conversion’ therapy that is based upon the assumption that homosexuality per se is a mental disorder or based upon the a priori assumption that the patient should change his/her homosexual orientation.”


American Psychiatric AssociationPosition Statement on Therapies Focused on Attempts to Change Sexual Orientation (Reparative or Conversion Therapies) (2000), available at http://www.psychiatry.org/File%20Library/Advocacy%20and%20Newsroom/
Position%20Statements/ps2000_ReparativeTherapy.pdf
.

“Psychotherapeutic modalities to convert or ‘repair’ homosexuality are based on developmental theories whose scientific validity is questionable. Furthermore, anecdotal reports of ‘cures’ are counterbalanced by anecdotal claims of psychological harm. In the last four decades, ‘reparative’ therapists have not produced any rigorous scientific research to substantiate their claims of cure. Until there is such research available, [the American Psychiatric Association] recommends that ethical practitioners refrain from attempts to change individuals’ sexual orientation, keeping in mind the medical dictum to first, do no harm.

The potential risks of reparative therapy are great, including depression, anxiety and self-destructive behavior, since therapist alignment with societal prejudices against homosexuality may reinforce self-hatred already experienced by the patient. Many patients who have undergone reparative therapy relate that they were inaccurately told that homosexuals are lonely, unhappy individuals who never achieve acceptance or satisfaction. The possibility that the person might achieve happiness and satisfying interpersonal relationships as a gay man or lesbian is not presented, nor are alternative approaches to dealing with the effects of societal stigmatization discussed.

Therefore, the American Psychiatric Association opposes any psychiatric treatment such as reparative or conversion therapy which is based upon the assumption that homosexuality per se is a mental disorder or based upon the a priori assumption that a patient should change his/her sexual homosexual orientation.”


American Psychoanalytic AssociationPosition Statement on Attempts to Change Sexual Orientation, Gender Identity, or Gender Expression(2012), available at http://www.apsa.org/content/2012-position-statement-attempts-change-sexual-orientation-gender-identity-or-gender.

“As with any societal prejudice, bias against individuals based on actual or perceived sexual orientation, gender identity or gender expression negatively affects mental health, contributing to an enduring sense of stigma and pervasive self-criticism through the internalization of such prejudice.

Psychoanalytic technique does not encompass purposeful attempts to ‘convert,’ “repair,” change or shift an individual’s sexual orientation, gender identity or gender expression. Such directed efforts are against fundamental principles of psychoanalytic treatment and often result in substantial psychological pain by reinforcing damaging internalized attitudes.”


American Psychological AssociationResolution on Appropriate Affirmative Responses to Sexual Orientation Distress and Change Efforts (2009), available athttp://www.apa.org/about/policy/sexual-orientation.pdf.

“Therefore be it resolved that the American Psychological Association affirms that same-sex sexual and romantic attractions, feelings, and behaviors are normal and positive variations of human sexuality regardless of sexual orientation identity;

Be it further resolved that the American Psychological Association reaffirms its position that homosexuality per se is not a mental disorder and opposes portrayals of sexual minority youths and adults as mentally ill due to their sexual orientation;

Be it further resolved that the American Psychological Association concludes that there is insufficient evidence to support the use of psychological interventions to change sexual orientation;

Be it further resolved that the American Psychological Association encourages mental health professionals to avoid misrepresenting the efficacy of sexual orientation change efforts by promoting or promising change in sexual orientation when providing assistance to individuals distressed by their own or others’ sexual orientation;

Be it further resolved that the American Psychological Association concludes that the benefits reported by participants in sexual orientation change efforts can be gained through approaches that do not attempt to change sexual orientation;

. . .

Be it further resolved that the American Psychological Association advises parents, guardians, young people, and their families to avoid sexual orientation change efforts that portray homosexuality as a mental illness or developmental disorder and to seek psychotherapy, social support and educational services that provide accurate information on sexual orientation and sexuality, increase family and school support, and reduce rejection of sexual minority youth;

Be it further resolved that the American Psychological Association encourages practitioners to consider the ethical concerns outlined in the 1997 APA Resolution on Appropriate Therapeutic Response to Sexual Orientation (American Psychological Association, 1998), in particular the following standards and principles: scientific bases for professional judgments, benefit and harm, justice, and respect for people’s rights and dignity[.]”


American School Counselor AssociationThe Professional School Counselor and LGBTQ Youth(2014), available at http://www.schoolcounselor.org/school-counselors-members/about-asca-%281%29/position-statements.

“The professional school counselor works with all students through the stages of identity development and understands this may be more difficult for LGBTQ youth. It is not the role of the professional school counselor to attempt to change a student’s sexual orientation or gender identity. Professional school counselors do not support efforts by licensed mental health professionals to change a student’s sexual orientation or gender as these practices have been proven ineffective and harmful (APA, 2009). School counselors provide support to LGBTQ students to promote academic achievement and personal/social development. Professional school counselors are committed to the affirmation of all youth regardless of sexual orientation, gender identity and gender expression and work to create safe and affirming schools.” 


American School Health AssociationQuality Comprehensive Sexuality Education (2007).

“[T]he American School Health Association . . . expects that comprehensive sexuality education in schools will be scientifically accurate and based on current medical, psychological, pedagogical, educational and social research . . . [and recommends] that teachers be well-trained and competent to teach sexuality education as defined by . . . insight into and acceptance of their own personal feelings and attitudes concerning sexuality topics so personal life experiences do not intrude inappropriately into the educational experience.”


National Association of Social Workers“Reparative” or “Conversion” Therapies for Lesbians and Gay Men (2000), available athttp://www.naswdc.org/diversity/lgb/reparative.asp.  

“[P]roponents of reparative and conversion therapies, such as the most commonly cited group NARTH, claim that their processes are supported by scientific data; however, such scientific support is replete with confounded research methodologies. . . . [Reparative and conversion therapies] cannot and will not change sexual orientation. Aligned with the American Psychological Association’s (1997) position, NCLGB believes that such treatment potentially can lead to severe emotional damage.” (emphasis in original)


National Association of Social WorkersPolicy Statement: Lesbian, Gay, and Bisexual Issues(2005), available at http://www.socialworkers.org/da/da2005/policies0505/documents/lgbissues
.pdf
.

“Taken to the extreme, homophobia in social workers and other practitioners can lead to the use of conversion or reparative therapies, which are explicitly condemned by NASW. . . . NASW reaffirms its stance against reparative therapies and treatments designed to change sexual orientation or to refer practitioners or programs that claim to do so.”


Pan American Health Organization: Regional Office of the World Health Organization“Cures” for an Illness That Does Not Exist: Purported Therapies Aimed at Changing Sexual Orientation Lack Medical Justification and are Ethically Unacceptable (2012), available at http://www.paho.org/hq/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_view&gid=17703.

“’Reparative’ or ‘conversion therapies’ have no medical indication and represent a severe threat to the health and human rights of the affected persons. They constitute unjustifiable practices that should be denounced and subject to adequate sanctions and penalties.”


Just the Facts Coalition (American Academy of Pediatrics, American Association of School Administrators, American Counseling Association, American Federation of Teachers, American Psychological Association, American School Counselor Association, American School Health Association, Interfaith Alliance Foundation, National Association of School Psychologists, National Association of Secondary School Principals, National Association of Social Workers, national Education Association, School Social Work Association of America), Just the Facts About Sexual Orientation and Youth: A Primer for Principals, Educators, and School Personnel (1999), available athttp://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/just-the-facts.pdf.

“The most important fact about 'reparative therapy,' also sometimes known as 'conversion' therapy, is that it is based on an understanding of homosexuality that has been rejected by all the major health and mental health professions. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of Social Workers, together representing more than 477,000 health and mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus there is no need for a 'cure.'”

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
11 hours ago, USU78 said:

And thanks for the reminder that one must never, under any circumstances, criticize any person or persons who self identify as homosexual. Unhealthy consequences ensue.

On the contrary! I recognize that in posting here, I not only open my ideas to critical thinking and criticism, I welcome such.  I value rigorous—yet respectful—dialogue as a means to challenge the validity of my own thoughts and opinions.  I’m reminded of two of some of my favorite quotes from past LDS leaders:

“I admire men and women who have developed the questing spirit, who are unafraid of new ideas as stepping stones to progress. We should, of course, respect the opinions of others, but we should also be unafraid to dissent–if we are informed. Thoughts and expressions compete in the marketplace of thought, and in that competition truth emerges triumphant. Only error fears freedom of expression… This free exchange of ideas is not to be deplored as long as men and women remain humble and teachable. Neither fear of consequence or any kind of coercion should ever be used to secure uniformity of thought in the church. People should express their problems and opinions and be unafraid to think without fear of ill consequences. … We must preserve freedom of the mind in the church and resist all efforts to suppress it.” 
 
— Hugh B. Brown
 
“If we have the truth, it cannot be harmed by investigation. If we have not the truth, it ought to be harmed.”  
 
– President J. Reuben Clark

Both of the above are reflected in one of my favorite Unitarian Universalist mediations:

“A belief which may not be questioned binds us to error, for there is incompleteness and imperfection in every belief.  Doubt is the touchstone of truth; it is an acid which eats away the false. 
 
“Let no one fear the truth, that doubt may consume it; for doubt is a testing of belief.  The truth stands boldly and unafraid; it is not shaken by the testing: For truth, if it be truth, arises from each testing stronger, more secure.
 
“Those that would silence doubt are filled with fear; their houses are built on shifting sands.  
 
But those who fear not doubt, and know its use, are founded on rock. They shall walk in the light of growing knowledge; the work of their hands shall endure. 
 
“Therefore let us not fear doubt, but let us rejoice in its help:  It is to be the wise as a staff to the blind; doubt is the attendant of truth.”
 
—Robert T. Weston

So challenge and critique away, USU. I welcome your input.

Edited by Daniel2
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
13 hours ago, Daniel2 said:

Perhaps you haven’t been paying attention. Studies have consistently shown those who undergo conversion/reparative therapies, which is what this bill bans, are MORE likely to commit suicide—not less. This bill seeks to end damaging non-medically-sound practices by licensed professionals that lead to increased suicides. Hardly “standing between the mentally ill and their therapists”—in fact, it advances mental health and diminishes practices leading to increases suicide. 

You ARE right about one thing, though... When I pause to recall the many years of your posting here on the board (mis)characterizing homosexuality, slandering gays and lesbians as “suffering from S.S.A.D.” (what you deemed “Same-Sex-Attraction-Diaorder”) and your accompanying horribalizations of our relationships and families, I probably shouldn’t be making light of your actual positions. 

I'm sorry for anyone that is homosexual to have read what he and the church leaders have said. 

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, Daniel2 said:

CFR 1: that I hold “incessant apathy towards Christianity.”

CFR 2: that I hold “incessant apathy towards traditional morality.”

CFR 3: that I hold “incessant apathy towards Spencer Kimball.”

 

Henny Youngman: "Seriously, folks."

Sheesh.

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, USU78 said:

Henny Youngman: "Seriously, folks."

Sheesh.

Yes. Entirely serious. 

Please answer the CFRs or withdraw the comment. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...