Jeanne Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Oh My Gosh..14 pages...does God really care??? 1 Link to comment
SouthernMo Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said: IMO this is demeaning... Plus the fact that the OP is the reproduction of a surreptitious recording that was posted on the internet to embarrass President Oaks. The question of which hand to use could have legitimately be asked and discussed without including it. Where did you get the transcript? I stand by each of those comments, and would be happy to say any of them in Elder Oaks’ presence. The only comment of the three I could even mildly interpret as demeaning is my opinion about his refusal to be seen in public alone with his sister. The interpretation of my comments as demeaning is subjective, though. I give you that. In the future, I’ll remember that you are more sensitive than me. But, I don’t want to ridicule him. He’s a good dude, and trying like all of us to be like Christ. Link to comment
ALarson Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: And no, I don’t believe President Oaks necessarily implied it would have to be done over again. I think he directly expressed his point, which is is that every effort should be made to do it exactly right the first time. But it could be the sort of thing for which no individual reprimand or correction is given if the left hand is used, but for which it is appropriate to issue a timely and well-placed reminder, as President Oaks seems to have done in this instance. But that is exactly what he did, isn't it? Wasn't he in there to correct the Deacons? 1 Link to comment
SouthernMo Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said: Where did you get the transcript? Transcript was posted on another thread. Can’t remember which one. I think @Tacenda shared it. I may be wrong about that. Link to comment
ALarson Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Jeanne said: Oh My Gosh..14 pages...does God really care??? Well...Choose the Right....you know? 😛 Link to comment
Scott Lloyd Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 (edited) 44 minutes ago, bluebell said: Can we see the reference(s) where it was authoritatively taught? You'd have to first prove that it was ever authoritatively taught before you can try to argue that it would need to be authoritatively rescinded. I’ve already said that I’m going by my own well-ingrained understanding obtained through years of growing up in the Church, so deeply ingrained that it seems odd to me now that anyone would doubt it and which results in President Oaks’s words ringing true to me. But no, I can’t provide any documentary evidence. It was too long ago. From what Bernard has said here, it appears his experience growing up in the Church resembles mine in this respect. Edited February 14, 2019 by Scott Lloyd Link to comment
Bernard Gui Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said: But it’s enough to give me pause. Has President Oaks been consistently teaching the same thing in other settings? Perhaps time will tell. He said he has brought this up in other meetings. Link to comment
Scott Lloyd Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jeanne said: Oh My Gosh..14 pages...does God really care??? I think God inspires his servants to give instruction on matters He cares about. As He has said, “My thoughts are not your thoughts.” 1 Link to comment
Scott Lloyd Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Just now, Bernard Gui said: He said he has brought this up in other meetings. He did? Well, there you go. Link to comment
Bernard Gui Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, Jeanne said: Oh My Gosh..14 pages...does God really care??? Perhaps. He has said “My Right Hand” many times. That’s worth thinking about. Link to comment
ALarson Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, Scott Lloyd said: He did? Well, there you go. Yes, but which meetings? Within the presidency? The Apostles? Can you quote a talk by him or in a meeting for members where he specifically stated what he taught to the Deacons? Edited February 14, 2019 by ALarson Link to comment
Scott Lloyd Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, ALarson said: But that is exactly what he did, isn't it? Wasn't he in there to correct the Deacons? I said “individual” reprimand or correction. This appears to have been done in a group setting. Edited February 14, 2019 by Scott Lloyd Link to comment
Scott Lloyd Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, ALarson said: Yes, but which meetings? Within the presidency? The Apostles? Can you quote a talk by him where he specifically states what he taught to the Deacons? No, of course I can’t. I’m accepting this in good faith as being true. Edited February 14, 2019 by Scott Lloyd Link to comment
Bernard Gui Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: He did? Well, there you go. Quote And all of us should partake of the right hand, when we participate in that great ordinance of the gospel. That's what I felt impressed to share with you, and I've often mentioned that in other meetings, but I've never seen so many deacons take the sacrament with their left hand, so I thought I'd better perform my responsibility to share that with you 1 Link to comment
Bernard Gui Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 6 minutes ago, SouthernMo said: Transcript was posted on another thread. Can’t remember which one. I think @Tacenda shared it. I may be wrong about that. Perhaps she could provide the source. Link to comment
SouthernMo Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 6 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: I’ve already said that I’m going by my own well-ingrained understanding through years of growing up in the Church, so deeply ingrained that it seems odd now that anyone would doubt it and which results in President Oaks’s words ringing true to me. But no, I can’t provide any documentary evidence. It was too long ago. From what Bernard has said here, it appears his experience growing up in the Church resembles mine in this respect. 4 Link to comment
ALarson Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: I said “individual” reprimand or correction. This appears to have been done in a group setting. I'd say what he did with these boys, was pretty individual and personal feeling for them. And he was there to correct them, so your argument is not valid, IMO. Edited February 14, 2019 by ALarson Link to comment
ALarson Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said: Perhaps she could provide the source. Good grief, Bernard! We can at least narrow it down to one of the deacons or one of the leaders who were present. From there, we have no way of knowing (right now) how it ended up on youtube or why the person recorded it (and if it was them or someone different who put it on youtube). (Where's that beating a dead horse emoji when you need it???) Link to comment
Bernard Gui Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 8 minutes ago, SouthernMo said: I stand by each of those comments, and would be happy to say any of them in Elder Oaks’ presence. A stand-up guy. 8 minutes ago, SouthernMo said: The only comment of the three I could even mildly interpret as demeaning is my opinion about his refusal to be seen in public alone with his sister. The interpretation of my comments as demeaning is subjective, though. Yes, it is subjective. 8 minutes ago, SouthernMo said: I give you that. In the future, I’ll remember that you are more sensitive than me. And you need not be concerned about my “sensitivity.” I’m a big boy. However, I take care of how I think of and speak about the apostles and prophets of the Lord Jesus Christ. I may not always agree with them, but I see no need to go after them personally when I don’t. 8 minutes ago, SouthernMo said: But, I don’t want to ridicule him. He’s a good dude, and trying like all of us to be like Christ. On that I can shout a hearty “Amen!” 1 Link to comment
Bernard Gui Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, ALarson said: Well...Choose the Right....you know? 😛 Don’t want to be a Left Behind goat. Edited February 14, 2019 by Bernard Gui 1 Link to comment
Bernard Gui Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 14 minutes ago, ALarson said: Yes, but which meetings? Within the presidency? The Apostles? Can you quote a talk by him or in a meeting for members where he specifically stated what he taught to the Deacons? Maybe the Russians have recordings of those other meetings. 1 Link to comment
SouthernMo Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 Just now, Bernard Gui said: Maybe the Russians have recordings of those other meetings. FAKE NEWS! There was no collusion! 1 Link to comment
Scott Lloyd Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 38 minutes ago, bluebell said: I'm not saying it should be, only that things that are taught only to select people do not automatically apply to the whole. I'm also thinking of the time that Pres. Joseph Fielding Smith (IIRC) taught at a regional conference that mankind would never land on the moon because God has decreed that this earth was our sphere and we would never be allowed to leave it? That was never taught to the church as a whole so the church was no obligated to find out if it was a true teaching (and it obviously wasn't). I see a substantial difference, though, between giving explicit instruction about the performance and procedure of an ordinance and offering personal commentary about the news of the day. Link to comment
Bernard Gui Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 6 minutes ago, ALarson said: Good grief, Bernard! We can at least narrow it down to one of the deacons or one of the leaders who were present. From there, we have no way of knowing (right now) how it ended up on youtube or why the person recorded it (and if it was them or someone different who put it on youtube). (Where's that beating a dead horse emoji when you need it???) I was responding to the suggestions that it could have done with good intentions. I try to respond to everyone who engages me. I prefer more information than less. Link to comment
Bernard Gui Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 14 minutes ago, SouthernMo said: Many traditions are based on true and good shared knowledge. Some are not. The jury is still out on this one. Link to comment
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