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Brian 2.0

Jesus becoming God in Pre-Mortal Realm

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Is there any information out there on how Jesus could progress to his elevated (even exalted?) state to be considered "God" in the pre-mortal realm, under the assumption that He did not experience a mortal existence yet? Seems counter to Plan of Salvation as needed for the rest of God's spirit children. Can one progress that far pre-mortally and in the presence of the Father that it makes mortality an afterthought? (sort of like the folklore that kids who die before 8 were so righteous in the pre-mortal world that they just needed to come to Earth to get a body).

Thanks. 

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17 minutes ago, Brian 2.0 said:

Is there any information out there on how Jesus could progress to his elevated (even exalted?) state to be considered "God" in the pre-mortal realm, under the assumption that He did not experience a mortal existence yet? Seems counter to Plan of Salvation as needed for the rest of God's spirit children. Can one progress that far pre-mortally and in the presence of the Father that it makes mortality an afterthought? (sort of like the folklore that kids who die before 8 were so righteous in the pre-mortal world that they just needed to come to Earth to get a body).

Thanks. 

I think the office of God may not be what we generally think.

If we made a list of the attributes of the Father Jesus certainly qualified.  If we made a list of the experiential qualifications required to be called God it becomes more interesting.

Maybe Jesus was an exception to the rules, maybe he wasn't.  It's an interesting subject to contemplate.

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13 minutes ago, Duncan said:

Thanks for the link!

Of note in it on this subject is this...

"President Joseph Fielding Smith stated emphatically that Jesus Christ was “a God before he was born into this world.” [7] He was like His Father. Analogous to family organization and family roles described in Old Testament culture, we might say that as the Firstborn, Jesus possessed all the rights, interests, and inheritance of the Father. He was the Birthright Son. He was in premortality the inheritor and rightful heir of all the Father possessed. He was the Father’s agent and executor, the “Word,” or “messenger of salvation” (D&C 93:8)."

This idea seems to indicated that Jesus is a "special case" in that he was the firstborn spirit and things might go a little differently for firstborns... and later in the article hinting around the the idea that perhaps the intelligences that organized into the spirit child Jesus played a part in why he was firstborn, so it wasn't just a luck-of-the-draw in that being first made Jesus get the birthright.

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Funny how the Holy Ghost seems to be the red-headed step child.

Edited by CA Steve
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2 minutes ago, CA Steve said:

Funny how the Holy Ghost seems to be the red-headed step child.

or the cool mysterious one that no one know anything about but everyone swoons over and wants as their constant companion. 

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3 minutes ago, CA Steve said:

Funny how the Holy Ghost seems to be the red-headed step child.

Both Jesus and the Holy Spirit were members of the Godhead. As such they were and always will be different from each of us in the sense that Jesus will always be our Savior and the Holy Spirit was required for our salvation - without his presence and guidance I don't think any would choose to submit to God's will; rather we would all follow our mortal passions.  It does seem like members of the Church misinterpret or inflate the meaning of Jesus being our older brother. Yes, in a certain way he is our brother, but he is infinitely more than just our brother. This is a confusion of doctrine and the stuff of songs. 

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And yet we are told that each of us can inherit ALL that the Father has. I personally hope there is no " due date" . I'm going to need a few million years at least. 

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I venture to say the relationship would undoubtedly change (between us and Jesus, and us and the Father) over time. Like the difference between a child (young kid) and his Father, and that same kid as an adult/father and his father. 

Edited by Brian 2.0
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8 hours ago, CA Steve said:

Funny how the Holy Ghost seems to be the red-headed step child.

I think He is okay with that, with His role. I only get positive vibes from Him.

Glenn

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10 hours ago, Brian 2.0 said:

Is there any information out there on how Jesus could progress to his elevated (even exalted?) state to be considered "God" in the pre-mortal realm, under the assumption that He did not experience a mortal existence yet? Seems counter to Plan of Salvation as needed for the rest of God's spirit children. Can one progress that far pre-mortally and in the presence of the Father that it makes mortality an afterthought? (sort of like the folklore that kids who die before 8 were so righteous in the pre-mortal world that they just needed to come to Earth to get a body).

Thanks. 

“In the beginning was the Word.  And the Word was with God.  And the Word was God”

John 1:1

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3 hours ago, Glenn101 said:

I think He is okay with that, with His role. I only get positive vibes from Him.

Glenn

My comment about the HG being "the red-headed step child" was a bit tongue-in-cheek but meant to illustrate that the OP would apply equally to HG as it does to Christ. IOW both have advanced to Godhood in their pre-mortal existence.  For a variety of reasons we tend to identify with Christ as an individual and with the HG as an influence. I am not saying that in Mormon theology there is not an individual behind that influence, it's just that we don't talk much about that individual. Which leads me to a question about the HG.

 

How do we know it's gender? Is it possible the HG could be a She?

 

On Edit: Since the gender question is off topic I will start a thread about it instead.

Edited by CA Steve
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On 1/31/2019 at 7:21 PM, Brian 2.0 said:

Is there any information out there on how Jesus could progress to his elevated (even exalted?) state to be considered "God" in the pre-mortal realm, under the assumption that He did not experience a mortal existence yet? Seems counter to Plan of Salvation as needed for the rest of God's spirit children. Can one progress that far pre-mortally and in the presence of the Father that it makes mortality an afterthought? (sort of like the folklore that kids who die before 8 were so righteous in the pre-mortal world that they just needed to come to Earth to get a body).

Thanks. 

Perhaps that assumes too much? Do we know Jesus didn't have a body and gave it up to come to Earth?

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On 1/31/2019 at 9:28 PM, strappinglad said:

And yet we are told that each of us can inherit ALL that the Father has. I personally hope there is no " due date" . I'm going to need a few million years at least. 

That may just be the next world.... being that this one took millions to create.... :) 

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On 1/31/2019 at 8:21 PM, Brian 2.0 said:

Is there any information out there on how Jesus could progress to his elevated (even exalted?) state to be considered "God" in the pre-mortal realm, under the assumption that He did not experience a mortal existence yet? Seems counter to Plan of Salvation as needed for the rest of God's spirit children. Can one progress that far pre-mortally and in the presence of the Father that it makes mortality an afterthought? (sort of like the folklore that kids who die before 8 were so righteous in the pre-mortal world that they just needed to come to Earth to get a body).

Thanks. 

There is one path to godhood. Have a read of the first 20-30 verses of D&C 93 with this in mind. 

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On 2/1/2019 at 7:50 AM, CA Steve said:

My comment about the HG being "the red-headed step child" was a bit tongue-in-cheek but meant to illustrate that the OP would apply equally to HG as it does to Christ. IOW both have advanced to Godhood in their pre-mortal existence.  For a variety of reasons we tend to identify with Christ as an individual and with the HG as an influence. I am not saying that in Mormon theology there is not an individual behind that influence, it's just that we don't talk much about that individual. Which leads me to a question about the HG.

 

How do we know it's gender? Is it possible the HG could be a She?

John 15:26

26 But when the aComforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall btestify of me:

& others like it

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On 1/31/2019 at 7:48 PM, Duncan said:

Not really. It seems self-conflicting to me: 

"In 1833 the Savior Himself testified of His position as the Firstborn with unmistakable clarity: “And now, verily I say unto you, I was in the beginning with the Father, and am the Firstborn” (D&C 93:21). Many of the Lord’s chosen servants have also taught in unequivocal terms that the mortal being known as Jesus Christ was the Firstborn in premortality."

And what is the evidence given for this claim? "The Apostle Paul wrote that Jesus was “the image of the invisible God [meaning the Father], the firstborn of every creature” (Colossans 1:15), the “firstborn among many brethren” (Romans 8:29), and the “firstbegotten into the world” (Hebrews 1:6)." The last expressly speaks of being the firstbegotten into the world - not in the preexistence. It also ignores what Hebrews says about Yeshua becoming the begotten - that the Father said to him "thou art my Son. This day I have begotten thee."

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1 hour ago, RevTestament said:

Not really. It seems self-conflicting to me: 

"In 1833 the Savior Himself testified of His position as the Firstborn with unmistakable clarity: “And now, verily I say unto you, I was in the beginning with the Father, and am the Firstborn” (D&C 93:21). Many of the Lord’s chosen servants have also taught in unequivocal terms that the mortal being known as Jesus Christ was the Firstborn in premortality."

And what is the evidence given for this claim? "The Apostle Paul wrote that Jesus was “the image of the invisible God [meaning the Father], the firstborn of every creature” (Colossans 1:15), the “firstborn among many brethren” (Romans 8:29), and the “firstbegotten into the world” (Hebrews 1:6)." The last expressly speaks of being the firstbegotten into the world - not in the preexistence. It also ignores what Hebrews says about Yeshua becoming the begotten - that the Father said to him "thou art my Son. This day I have begotten thee."

i'm imagining Christ saying he's the firstborn is the evidence for it. The third of your verses aren't the same as the first two

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Just now, Duncan said:

i'm imagining Christ saying he's the firstborn is the evidence for it. The third of your verses aren't the same as the first two

Yes, He was the firstborn from pre-existence, but the question is how. How did He become the only begotten Son to be sent into the world?

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3 hours ago, RevTestament said:

Yes, He was the firstborn from pre-existence, but the question is how. How did He become the only begotten Son to be sent into the world?

God was his father with Mary in some way, but God is not my father or anyone else's father in mortality, we all have fathers but only Christ has God the father

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9 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

Perhaps that assumes too much? Do we know Jesus didn't have a body and gave it up to come to Earth?

If the account of the brother of Jared is to be believed. 

Ether 3:16

Behold, this body, which ye now behold, is the body of my spirit; and man have I created after the body of my spirit; and even as I appear unto thee to be in the spirit will I appear unto my people in the flesh.

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13 hours ago, Judd said:

If the account of the brother of Jared is to be believed. 

Ether 3:16

Behold, this body, which ye now behold, is the body of my spirit; and man have I created after the body of my spirit; and even as I appear unto thee to be in the spirit will I appear unto my people in the flesh.

Thank you 

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On 2/1/2019 at 12:28 AM, strappinglad said:

And yet we are told that each of us can inherit ALL that the Father has. I personally hope there is no " due date" . I'm going to need a few million years at least. 

In the Doctrine and Covenants, we’re are told father Abraham is, even now, a resurrected god seated on a throne of eternal power. How is this possible? Well, if one is left on his own to fend for himself to learn how to become like Heavenly Father and Christ it would take a lot longer than a mere few million years. In fact, if left to rely solely on his own human strength and wisdom he would never be able to become like the Father and the Son, worlds without end.

But if a man chooses to do what’s required to bring the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost into his life, his divine enabling power (grace) is able to transform any individual to become like God much more rapidly than he ever could hope to achieve if left to his own puny human devices. Think of the divinely empowered Moses opening the Red Sea or the prophet Enoch teaching his human earthly followers how to become so righteous and holy that the population of an entire city were translated to dwell in the bosom of Gd and you’ll begin to get the picture.

Edited by teddyaware

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On 1/31/2019 at 7:21 PM, Brian 2.0 said:

Is there any information out there on how Jesus could progress to his elevated (even exalted?) state to be considered "God" in the pre-mortal realm, under the assumption that He did not experience a mortal existence yet? Seems counter to Plan of Salvation as needed for the rest of God's spirit children. Can one progress that far pre-mortally and in the presence of the Father that it makes mortality an afterthought? (sort of like the folklore that kids who die before 8 were so righteous in the pre-mortal world that they just needed to come to Earth to get a body).

Thanks. 

This First Presidency Proclamation may help....

Quote

 

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On 2/1/2019 at 4:52 PM, Brian 2.0 said:

I venture to say the relationship would undoubtedly change (between us and Jesus, and us and the Father) over time. Like the difference between a child (young kid) and his Father, and that same kid as an adult/father and his father. 

My relationship with my father didn't change over time so much as it deepened.

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