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Rivers

Can one be a Democrat and a member of the church?

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So the title of the thread is a little facetious.  But with the Democratic Party embracing infanticide up to 40 weeks of pregnancy in New York and Virginia, I have a hard time understanding  how  one can support this wickedness and remain a Latter-day Saint in good standing.

 

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5 hours ago, Rivers said:

So the title of the thread is a little facetious.  But with the Democratic Party embracing infanticide up to 40 weeks of pregnancy in New York and Virginia, I have a hard time understanding  how  one can support this wickedness and remain a Latter-day Saint in good standing.

 

The Democratic Party has never embraced infanticide.

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I often wonder how one can be a republican and a Christian. I guess we all just pick the issues we feel are central and ignore the rest.

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If you look at the history of Utah politics you'll see that Mormons were predominately Democrats up until the late 60's early 70's.  The two issues that seemed to push Mormons to the Republican party were first civil rights and then the ERA along with the rise of very conservative leaders like Ezra Taft Benson.  

There is a reasonable argument that the highest national political office ever held by a active Mormon was Harry Reid as the Senate Majority Leader. 

Phaedrus 

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1 minute ago, rockpond said:

Being a member of a particular political party does not mean that one endorses every platform and every piece of legislation ever promoted by that party.

Some might even say that belonging to a certain religion does not mean that one believes every doctrine and agrees with every policy of that religion.

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11 minutes ago, Raskolnikov said:

I often wonder how one can be a republican and a Christian. I guess we all just pick the issues we feel are central and ignore the rest.

Republicans are against infanticide.  So yes you can be a Republican and Christian.

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8 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Being a member of a particular political party does not mean that one endorses every platform and every piece of legislation ever promoted by that party.

I wonder how people can support the current placeholder we have in the White House and still claim to be a Christian.

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I appreciate that we, at times, make a facetious statement. I hope that every member of the Church of Jesus Christ would scream, holler, and protest any effort to expand the despicable actions of New York and now Virginia to expand abortion rights up to and including seconds before delivery. This is evil and it is born of evil hearts led by Satan. There are no redeeming qualities regardless of the demented comments contrary to that position. It would be my hope that the individuals that spawn such anathema be eternally condemned to the 9th hell to burn for every life lost due to their words and actions. 

Regardless, political parties and governments seldom, if ever, have 100% support of the citizenry for every statement, action, or position they take. A member of the Church of Jesus Christ can be a member of almost any party. 

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1 minute ago, Storm Rider said:

I appreciate that we, at times, make a facetious statement. I hope that every member of the Church of Jesus Christ would scream, holler, and protest any effort to expand the despicable actions of New York and now Virginia to expand abortion rights up to and including seconds before delivery. This is evil and it is born of evil hearts led by Satan. There are no redeeming qualities regardless of the demented comments contrary to that position. It would be my hope that the individuals that spawn such anathema be eternally condemned to the 9th hell to burn for every life lost due to their words and actions. 

Regardless, political parties and governments seldom, if ever, have 100% support of the citizenry for every statement, action, or position they take. A member of the Church of Jesus Christ can be a member of almost any party. 

 

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I'm apalled that this has happened. But I found after taking a quiz that I lean toward being a Democrat, but I don't believe in abortion. I align with the LDS or what they use to say, that only in the case for the life of the mother or rape do you abort. But I guess that should be up to the woman, she may not care if she lives or dies or if she was raped, to preserve life.

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Outside of the States, the political affiliations seem to be a lot more varied... Probably because the political landscape has more than 2 parties.

No political system is perfect, but there seems to be a race to lionise everyone who agrees with us whilst demonising anyone who disagrees with us. E.g Brexit in the UK.

Personally, I'm trying to remember that one issue or position defines everything about a person.

 

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23 minutes ago, Rivers said:

Republicans are against infanticide.  So yes you can be a Republican and Christian.

Republicans are no more for or against infanticide than Democrats.

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1 hour ago, provoman said:

Please let’s not do this

The Church is political neutral. Google can help you find modern statements about party affiliation in the United States.

More importantly worthiness is a matter between God, The individual and that person Priesthood leader.

 

It would be nice if I could give another rep point to this post.

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1 hour ago, provoman said:

Please let’s not do this

The Church is political neutral. Google can help you find modern statements about party affiliation in the United States.

More importantly worthiness is a matter between God, The individual and that person Priesthood leader.

 

But you do not understand.....when the apostles claim neutrality they are just being facetious. If they could they would tell us to all wear MAGA hats. It is all very “wink wink nudge nudge”.

 

Sadly there is no option to give a thread 0 stars.

Edited by The Nehor
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6 hours ago, Rivers said:

But with the Democratic Party embracing infanticide up to 40 weeks of pregnancy in New York and Virginia, I have a hard time understanding  how  one can support this wickedness and remain a Latter-day Saint in good standing.

One can be a democrat and not support New York wickedness.  I am guessing more good can be done to change such policies from within the party then from without. 

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1 hour ago, CA Steve said:

I wonder how people can support the current placeholder we have in the White House and still claim to be a Christian.

You can like some of someone’s policies without endorsing everything that person says or does.

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3 minutes ago, Rivers said:

You can like some of someone’s policies without endorsing everything that person says or does.

The same is equally true of party affiliation.

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7 hours ago, Rivers said:

So the title of the thread is a little facetious.  But with the Democratic Party embracing infanticide up to 40 weeks of pregnancy in New York and Virginia, I have a hard time understanding  how  one can support this wickedness and remain a Latter-day Saint in good standing.

The Roman Catholic Church, which defines life as beginning at conception, does see any abortion as murder or infanticide.  The RC Church does not permit abortion even in cases of rape, or in the case of threat to the life of the mother.  That is not, however, the law of the land as defined by the U.S. Supreme Court -- which long ago laid down the rule that the beginning of life is based on viability of the fetus outside the womb.  That refers to the earliest point at which a premature delivery can survive, which in turn is based on medical technology in helping preemies survive.

The LDS Church has no rule on the beginning of life, and approves of abortion in cases of rape or of threat to the life of the mother.  The LDS Church does not punish women who have abortions.  Indeed, if we appeal to Scripture, we can clearly see that Adam did not become a living soul until he took his first breath (Gen 2:7).

The LDS Church does not dictate politics to the people, and seldom interferes in or advises on legislation.  There is a strong separation between Church and State in America.  Not all countries have the same political structure.  The LDS Church has no position on which political party is good, better, best, or evil.  However, the Church does advise that the Saints should actively take part in voting for their preferred candidates each election (the First Presidency has a letter read to that effect by each bishop at election time).  The Church does not take sides in such political activity.  Moreover, some of the Twelve and First Presidency have been members of both of the two major political parties.

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1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

But you do not understand.....when the apostles claim neutrality they are just being facetious. If they could they would tell us to all wear MAGA hats. It is all very “wink wink nudge nudge”.

...............................

Putin might like to see some MAGA hats being worn by Mormons in Russia.

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1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

But you do not understand.....when the apostles claim neutrality they are just being facetious. If they could they would tell us to all wear MAGA hats. It is all very “wink wink nudge nudge”..

Of course they would, but in this case MAGA would stand for 

"Make Adam God Again".

😉

 

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1 hour ago, Gray said:

Republicans are no more for or against infanticide than Democrats.

This makes no sense at all under any circumstances. The only groups that have started this atrocity are Democrats in two states. Republicans, as a group, stand aghast at such actions. Calling black white does not make it white. 

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Summarizing the debate:

Somewhere in the universe, a line exists.  On one side of the line, a human being with inalienable rights deserves protection of law.  On the other side of that line, a nonhuman glob of cells is part of someone's body, and they can choose do do whatever they want with it.

Pretty much everyone believes human life has value, and should have the protection of law.  Pretty much everyone believes nonhuman things aren't human, and shouldn't have the protection of law.

We fight over where to draw the line, so we'll know whose rights to protect, and who to throw in jail because they've murdered someone.

Where do you draw the line?  At what point is someone guilty of taking an innocent life, if they destroy one of these?
- When they engage in self-pleasure/spill seed/use birth control/[insert euphemism here]?
- The exact nanosecond a sperm meets an egg?
- A pre-morula zygote?
- A blastocyst?
- A multi-cell-layered gastrula?
- A blastopore, where you can first see a mouth and anus?
- When stuff that will eventually be muscle and bone and stuff forms?
- When you can see a beating heart?
- When you see lungs?
- When you can first detect some sort of brain activity?
- When limb movement starts?
- When the webbed toes start losing their webbing?
- When it grows fingernails and is covered by hair, and stops being an embryo?
- When it starts being a fetus? (week 8 )?
- After the risk of natural miscarriage drops to lower levels?
- When its eyes finally open?
- When it's not translucent and showing veins any more?
- When it starts reacting to sound?
- When it has a chance of surviving outside the womb? (around month 6)
- When it first responds to pain or light?
- When it loses all its body hair?
- Month 7?  8?
- When it is full term?
- When it finds itself outside of the mother?
- When the cord is cut?
- When it is surviving independently of machines and medicine?
- When it gets potty trained?
- When it tells it's first dirty joke?
- Only after it votes Democrat?

Remember folks, we gotta draw the line, and enshrine that line in law.  So we'll know who to arrest, and who to protect as they make decisions about their body.   Remember, there's no such thing as "Well, obviously it needs to be here", because no, it's not obvious to everybody.  I've personally witnessed someone express the truthful opinion that the woman should be able to abort her baby within the first 90 days after birth.

Happy guessing!  Happy scripture-interpreting!  Happy morals-based-on-your-worldviewing!  If you think there's a difference between life and human life, please draw those lines as well.  

 

Edited by LoudmouthMormon
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