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Lola

Who is a widow supposed to marry...?

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7 hours ago, juliann said:

I have to admit I get a kick out of the indignant reactions of the dwindling numbers of men who still think it is every woman’s duty to listen to them explain how we should think, feel, and act about life events they have never experienced and never will. 

I won’t coddle their delicate feelings about being dismissed from women’s conversations about women’s experiences anymore. Think of it as women being barred from GC priesthood sessions,  guys. Surely you can handle it as graciously as women do. 

Oh.... and to save you from having to rail about being told you can’t say anything at all, read the actual definition of mansplaining over and over and over until you can recite it by heart. 

Best response yet....   Juliann, can we be friends? lol! 🙂 

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I was widowed when I was 33, with a sealing and six children.  I have never yet found someone I want to marry yet, not even close, so at this point it is all theoretical to me.  I don't know what I would do in real time.

But I am close to furious about the implications.  I feel as if I was thrown on the funeral pyre.  "You are used up.  Sorry."

I am not necessarily looking forward to being with my husband in eternity (I imagine us both finding people we prefer better), but I do value our sealing and the family it created.  I would rather not break that; that will affect the hearts of my children.  I also appreciate the priesthood power that the sealing yields as I lead and preside in my family and raise my children.  My (previous) husband and I still both do all we can for our children--he, from the other side of the veil.

Because of some study and revelation I have had, if I happened to choose another partner, I absolutely expect to be sealed to him and remain sealed to my previous husband.  I will not discard a relationship I put everything into and discard a person I became One with.

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On 1/16/2019 at 3:01 PM, juliann said:

I was very disappointed this situation was not resolved with the other temple changes. I know a woman who was sealed twice and have seen reports of others. It is happening. But it would depend on who your local leaders are. 



This is one of the more frustrating aspects of this policy, and many many others in the church.  It all depends on who your leaders are and what their personal bias is towards the issue.  That just confirms to me that it's truly not coming from God (not that I ever thought that to be begin with).   

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4 minutes ago, Maidservant said:

 

Because of some study and revelation I have had, if I happened to choose another partner, I absolutely expect to be sealed to him and remain sealed to my previous husband.  I will not discard a relationship I put everything into and discard a person I became One with.

This has always been the explanation for why men will/should have multiple wives in the next life or will keep their sealing even if they die.  Their love and commitment means something for the eternities even if cut short.  BY stated something along the lines of God wouldn't allow another man to steal a sealed wife if the husband died by convincing her to break the sealing even, iirc.

It never made sense to me it wouldn't work that way for women as well if that is the way it actually works.  We are not a different species with different feelings of love, incapable of loving more than one man in our lives or at a time.

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20 hours ago, Rain said:

I've known 2 young widows.  The first was finally able to find someone willing to marry her anyway, though he had reservations.  The second had her sealing cancelled and that really caused some problems in the first husband's family with family members leaving the church over it. 

I am so sorry for the loss of your husband and for having to go through this.  I know it isn't easy. 

Having to cancel my sealing, when men are not required too, is a slap in the face and reeks of innuendo that I am a second class citizen.  It's an archaic and sexist policy that I have no doubt will be changed in the future.   

For now... I must endure the mansplaining...  

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1 hour ago, Lola said:

This is one of the more frustrating aspects of this policy, and many many others in the church.  It all depends on who your leaders are and what their personal bias is towards the issue.  That just confirms to me that it's truly not coming from God (not that I ever thought that to be begin with).   

And the problem is even if you believe that and find a leader who will work to get you an additional sealing, you have no control how available men will interpret the doctrine of sealings and given the history of how it has been taught, most will currently be approaching it from the likelihood that women will only get one eternal sealing even if she has multiple sealings on paper.

Edited by Calm

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2 hours ago, strappinglad said:

Let's suppose that the sealing to your first husband was canceled. So your first husband has no say in the matter? Then you marry a fellow and are sealed in the temple and 10 years later he cheats on you and you divorce. Now what ? Do you get the second sealing canceled and reinstate the first? Again your first husband has no say in the matter? With few exceptions, sealings are promises of future blessings predicated on life choices etc. The answer that " God will work it out ", is the only one that holds for all the crazy combinations that we humans create. ( Sorry if I 'spained it poorly)

Um... I think you might have posted your answer on the wrong thread.  This answer is completely irrelevant to my question.   

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1 hour ago, juliann said:

Says someone who will never be in that circumstance because it is all worked out for men who want to be sealed to multiple women. 

Amen....

 

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54 minutes ago, bluebell said:

"God will work it out" doesn't help Lola at all right now, though who wants to remarry an active believing member of the church but can't find any that are willing to forego the blessings of being sealed to a spouse in the here and now.

So while you see that answer as 'the only answer', in terms of Lola's predicament, it's not really an answer at all.

This right here is someone who read and understood my question. 

Thank you bluebell....  

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1 hour ago, Lola said:

Having to cancel my sealing, when men are not required too, is a slap in the face and reeks of innuendo that I am a second class citizen.  It's an archaic and sexist policy that I have no doubt will be changed in the future.   

For now... I must endure the mansplaining...  

Not necessarily a second class citizen, often men and women just assume women love in different enough ways that no woman would actually want to be sealed to multiple men because she would only want to focus her love and attention on one. (This was the constant explanation I was hearing in my youth and adulthood back in 70s and 80s....don't hear it any more.)  So women are getting what they really want (one and only one husband) for individuals who believe that.

However, most women I know who feel that way want their husband to feel the same way and therefore polygyny is an evil idea.  Those who think generally a woman will want to be exclusive herself, but won't care about whether or not her husband is exclusive haven't really thought it through, I suspect.

Edited by Calm
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17 minutes ago, Maidservant said:

I feel as if I was thrown on the funeral pyre.  "You are used up.  Sorry."

Yep.... 

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1 hour ago, Maidservant said:

Because of some study and revelation I have had, if I happened to choose another partner, I absolutely expect to be sealed to him and remain sealed to my previous husband.  I will not discard a relationship I put everything into and discard a person I became One with.

Nail  hit squarely on the head. My point was you do the best you can to live up to your covenants. Marry whomever you want and live the best life and no blessings will be withheld in the eternities. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. I've said it before, being single is the default position ,any other permanent relationship depends on the Holy Spirit of Promise. Read Christ's answer to the question about the woman marrying 7 brothers. 

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And for the record, I have absolutely no interest in having more than one wife. To anticipate Julian's possible rejoinder , I don't want to mess up any other female... 😬

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6 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

Nail  hit squarely on the head. My point was you do the best you can to live up to your covenants. Marry whomever you want and live the best life and no blessings will be withheld in the eternities. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. I've said it before, being single is the default position ,any other permanent relationship depends on the Holy Spirit of Promise. Read Christ's answer to the question about the woman marrying 7 brothers. 

This is great...except she can NOT "marry whomever (she) want" because the men are not choosing her - for a reason the men will never have to worry about should their wives die. 

 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

Nail  hit squarely on the head. My point was you do the best you can to live up to your covenants. Marry whomever you want and live the best life and no blessings will be withheld in the eternities. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. I've said it before, being single is the default position ,any other permanent relationship depends on the Holy Spirit of Promise. Read Christ's answer to the question about the woman marrying 7 brothers. 

The problem is it is all very well to hold that belief oneself, but dating is a two person game and if that is not the way the Church teaches it, it doesn't really matter what she believes...and it is not what is taught explicitly, even the possibility is allowed for only recently in a few comments I am aware of where "men" is not used with multiple sealings, but "people"; most of the time if equally presented, it does so by avoidance.... it is just not talked about what multiple eternal sealings means it seems to me.  I think you can only get there by inferring from teachings of equality that are not being discussed in terms of sealings, like God not being a respecter of persons, all equal before God, etc. 

Edited by Calm

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7 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

And for the record, I have absolutely no interest in having more than one wife. To anticipate Julian's possible rejoinder , I don't want to mess up any other female... 😬

My husband doesn't either. As a type one diabetic my husband and I have always felt I would die much earlier than him. I really never thought I would make it to age 50.

But I love my husband and had I died 15, 20, 25 years ago I would not want him to be lonely for the rest of his life so should I die he has my support in marrying someone else. The good thing he never had to worry about is women turning him down because he was sealed to me or breaking our sealing.

Edited by Rain
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I have told my husband multiple times if I died, I would want him to remarry and he just rolls his eyes.  There is no real reason to assume I die first because my health issues aren't any more likely to kill me than his are (his dad had bypasses, but lived as long as mine did, same with grandparents, he has sleep apnea to go with my rls).  I think I have mentioned it because of these kinds of conversations plus I am a big time planner for disasters...at least in my head if not that great on followthrough any more.

Quote

The good thing he never had to worry about is women turning him down because he was sealed to me or breaking our sealing.

However, I bet there are women who will not date a sealed man because they don't like the idea of sharing him....it just isn't discussed openly like the history of men having multiple wives is, so it is often seen imo as selfishness or jealousy on the woman's part while for men refusing to date sealed women is about the righteous desire ofhaving a temple marriage themselves.

There is also the reality that in most places historically speaking there are many more single women attending than men once you get past 30, so even if there are women who refuse to date widowers for that reason, the dating pool was still relatively large for men in the past.

With greater financial independence for women, there seems to have lessen the perception women will likely or should be willing to get married to anyone that offers except extreme losers once they get to a certain age.  But I can't think of any widower under 70 who has not gotten remarried and usually within a few years of his wife's death, while I can think of numerous widows of all ages who have not.

Edited by Calm
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1 hour ago, strappinglad said:

Nail  hit squarely on the head. My point was you do the best you can to live up to your covenants. Marry whomever you want and live the best life and no blessings will be withheld in the eternities. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. I've said it before, being single is the default position ,any other permanent relationship depends on the Holy Spirit of Promise. Read Christ's answer to the question about the woman marrying 7 brothers. 

🙄 what part of a widow can’t marry anyone she wants to with the sealing restrictions on women do you still not understand? 

Let us know how many more times you need it repeated so we can start a man spam thread for you. 😉

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51 minutes ago, Calm said:

I have told my husband multiple times if I died, I would want him to remarry and he just rolls his eyes.  There is no real reason to assume I die first because my health issues aren't any more likely to kill me than his are (his dad had bypasses, but lived as long as mine did, same with grandparents, he has sleep apnea to go with my rls).  I think I have mentioned it because of these kinds of conversations plus I am a big time planner for disasters...at least in my head if not that great on followthrough any more.

However, I bet there are women who will not date a sealed man because they don't like the idea of sharing him....it just isn't discussed openly like the history of men having multiple wives is, so it is often seen imo as selfishness or jealousy on the woman's part while for men refusing to date sealed women is about the righteous desire ofhaving a temple marriage themselves.

There is also the reality that in most places historically speaking there are many more single women attending than men once you get past 30, so even if there are women who refuse to date widowers for that reason, the dating pool was still relatively large for men in the past.

With greater financial independence for women, there seems to have lessen the perception women will likely or should be willing to get married to anyone that offers except extreme losers once they get to a certain age.  But I can't think of any widower under 70 who has not gotten remarried and usually within a few years of his wife's death, while I can think of numerous widows of all ages who have not.

My father-in-law. He had been alone now for almost 19 years. His loneliness is one of the reasons why I support my husband marrying again.  

 

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7 minutes ago, Rain said:

My father-in-law. He had been alone now for almost 19 years. His loneliness is one of the reasons why I support my husband marrying again.  

 

Did he date after she died or was it more or less his conscious choice?

Edited by Calm

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52 minutes ago, juliann said:

🙄 what part of a widow can’t marry anyone she wants to with the sealing restrictions on women do you still not understand? 

Let us know how many more times you need it repeated so we can start a man spam thread for you. 😉

Seriously, Juliann...  you're killing me, lol!!!   I can't stop laughing... just the comic relief I need right now!  🙂 

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1 hour ago, Calm said:

However, I bet there are women who will not date a sealed man because they don't like the idea of sharing him....it just isn't discussed openly like the history of men having multiple wives is, so it is often seen imo as selfishness or jealousy on the woman's part while for men refusing to date sealed women is about the righteous desire ofhaving a temple marriage themselves

Yes... I agree... some women do not want to share.   But... at least no one is telling them the CANNOT do it if they want to.  The choice is theirs whereas in my situation, Church headquarters took that decision away from me. 

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3 hours ago, Rain said:

This is great...except she can NOT "marry whomever (she) want" because the men are not choosing her - for a reason the men will never have to worry about should their wives die. 

We have a few single men here who could marry anyone they wanted to....as long as the other person agreed to it. Lola is in a similar situation. There are hurdles each must jump over. Is there a double standard? yes. and maybe . Juliann said she married a non member. There were consequences to that choice. I suspect that , in the next life she will not hold back on expressing her disapproval of the situation .Seeing the " adjustments" recently made , I am reminded of the old saying , " Change happens one funeral at a time "

 

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2 hours ago, Calm said:

Did he date after she died or was it more or less his conscious choice?

As far as I know he never did, though he does hold hands with a woman in assisted living with him now. In recent years he has started telling us MIL said she would haunt him if he married someone else, but dementia is here so I don't know how much to believe. 

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2 hours ago, Lola said:

Seriously, Juliann...  you're killing me, lol!!!   I can't stop laughing... just the comic relief I need right now!  🙂 

These are all nice guys here. It just demonstrates what we have to deal with everyday to even have a conversation. 

And yes, strappinglad, there were consequences to my marrying a nonmember as a sealed, i.e., damaged goods divorcée.  I raised a faithful daughter and we are sealed to that now member husband. 

 I should  have just remained single and childless instead and waited until I died to enjoy those blessings that would have all worked out. It’s a beautiful theology, right? Don’t worry ladies. Just die!

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