pogi Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 I attended my cousins sealing over the weekend at the Draper, UT temple. The person sealing them said that sealers have been counseled not to advise the couple on how to have a happy marriage together. Is this a new change that happened with the other recent temple changes? It certainly is a change from when I was married over a decade ago now. Either way, I am happy to hear about this chagne. I don't feel that it is the sealers role to be a marriage counselor, as I have heard some controversial advise from sealers in the past and can be distracting from the sacrament of the ceremony. 4 Link to comment
halconero Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Best advice I've heard from a sealer, who happens to be a currently serving apostle, was "you two have fun making whoopee tonight" as he walked out of the room. I haven't been a live sealing in a while, but it makes sense. Unless the sealer is a family friend, it seems a bit odd to be getting or giving advice. 4 Link to comment
The Nehor Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Yeah, the only sealing I attended that I thought the counsel was good was when the bride’s father was the Temple President and did the sealing. Link to comment
katherine the great Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Haven't heard that but it sounds good to me. I don't remember a word of the sealer's advice. I just remember wishing he'd move on to the vows so we could be married. 4 Link to comment
daz2 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 About 10 years ago was when I first heard a sealer say that sealers had been counseled not to provide marriage advice as part of a live sealing. I have heard the same things from other sealers. 1 Link to comment
Popular Post pogi Posted January 14, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted January 14, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, katherine the great said: Haven't heard that but it sounds good to me. I don't remember a word of the sealer's advice. I just remember wishing he'd move on to the vows so we could be married. The advice that I remember from our sealing is this, our sealer said "the best advise that I can give you is to never let your head hit your pillow before resolving any issues that you might have with each other each night." It seemed like decent advise at the time, to resole any issues and conflict before each day ends - but I think it was a bit idealistic. We tried to live up to his advice, but failed in doing so. That failure to follow his counsel left us feeling a little less then. It made it seem like our inability to always resolve conflict at the end of each day was a sign that our relationship was worse off than it really was. The fact is, there are different dynamics in different relationships and people have different ways, times, and methods of resolving conflict that work for them. And sometimes sleep is the best medicine. Edited January 14, 2019 by pogi 6 Link to comment
HappyJackWagon Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 2 hours ago, pogi said: I attended my cousins sealing over the weekend at the Draper, UT temple. The person sealing them said that sealers have been counseled not to advise the couple on how to have a happy marriage together. Is this a new change that happened with the other recent temple changes? It certainly is a change from when I was married over a decade ago now. Either way, I am happy to hear about this chagne. I don't feel that it is the sealers role to be a marriage counselor, as I have heard some controversial advise from sealers in the past and can be distracting from the sacrament of the ceremony. I'm a little confused by this. The official language of the sealing is over in just a minute or two. The rest of the time is generally the sealer speaking to the couple and giving sage, gospel-centered advice. Isn't something as simple as "keep the commandments" or "be loyal and loving to each other" giving advice? Or are they trying to get rid of more of the off-the-cuff non-gospel related advice, or the somewhat sexist counsel that is sometimes given. I'm confused because these sealers are good, loyal, thoughtful, priesthood leaders that are now being told not to give their spiel in addition to the actual sealing language. Sounds like a super fast, super impersonal approach to what should be a super meaningful experience. I guess I don't see how a sealer totally separates "gospel" advice from his home spun variation of "gospel" advice. On the up side, they should be able to double the number of sealings in a day 1 Link to comment
Popular Post pogi Posted January 14, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted January 14, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said: I'm a little confused by this. The official language of the sealing is over in just a minute or two. The rest of the time is generally the sealer speaking to the couple and giving sage, gospel-centered advice. Isn't something as simple as "keep the commandments" or "be loyal and loving to each other" giving advice? Or are they trying to get rid of more of the off-the-cuff non-gospel related advice, or the somewhat sexist counsel that is sometimes given. I'm confused because these sealers are good, loyal, thoughtful, priesthood leaders that are now being told not to give their spiel in addition to the actual sealing language. Sounds like a super fast, super impersonal approach to what should be a super meaningful experience. I guess I don't see how a sealer totally separates "gospel" advice from his home spun variation of "gospel" advice. On the up side, they should be able to double the number of sealings in a day The sealing didn't seem to be any quicker than other one's I had been to. He expounded more on the language of the ceremony, what it means etc. so they fully understood the covenants they were making. The sealer was actually the brides grandfather, which was cool. Her father had passed away several years ago, and the sealer expounded on the part about this being done in the presence of angels and about who might be in attendance. The bride was overcome with emotion and soon the entire room was sobbing. It was a really touching ceremony. Simple. Pure. True to the sacrament it is. Edited January 14, 2019 by pogi 6 Link to comment
katherine the great Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 42 minutes ago, pogi said: The advice that I remember from our sealing is this, our sealer said "the best advise that I can give you is to never let your head hit your pillow before resolving any issues that you might have with each other each night." It seemed like decent advise at the time, to resole any issues and conflict before each day ends - but I think it was a bit idealistic. We tried to live up to his advice, but failed in doing so. That failure to follow his counsel left us feeling a little less then. It made it seem like our inability to always resolve conflict at the end of each day was a sign that our relationship was worse off than it really was. The fact is, there are different dynamics in different relationships and people have different ways, times, and methods of resolving conflict that work for them. And sometimes sleep is the best medicine. I totally agree. My husband may fall into that category but I am much more reasonable after I’ve had a good night’s sleep. Fortunately, we hardly ever argue. 1 Link to comment
clarkgoble Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 3 hours ago, pogi said: I attended my cousins sealing over the weekend at the Draper, UT temple. The person sealing them said that sealers have been counseled not to advise the couple on how to have a happy marriage together. Is this a new change that happened with the other recent temple changes? It certainly is a change from when I was married over a decade ago now. Either way, I am happy to hear about this chagne. I don't feel that it is the sealers role to be a marriage counselor, as I have heard some controversial advise from sealers in the past and can be distracting from the sacrament of the ceremony. Plus the people being married are typically in such a daze that they couldn't remember it if they tried. 2 Link to comment
cherryTreez Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 hour ago, pogi said: The sealing didn't seem to be any quicker than other one's I had been to. He expounded more on the language of the ceremony, what it means etc. so they fully understood the covenants they were making. The sealer was actually the brides grandfather, which was cool. Her father had passed away several years ago, and the sealer expounded on the part about this being done in the presence of angels and about who might be in attendance. The bride was overcome with emotion and soon the entire room was sobbing. It was a really touching ceremony. Simple. Pure. True to the sacrament it is. We were told that we had family on the other side with us. That they loved us and wanted to be a part of this special moment. It was very neat feeling. The sealer was my husbands great uncle. Link to comment
Stargazer Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 hour ago, daz2 said: About 10 years ago was when I first heard a sealer say that sealers had been counseled not to provide marriage advice as part of a live sealing. I have heard the same things from other sealers. If I were a sealer, I would like to give the advice: always listen to each other, and remember that neither one of you knows how to read minds. Only to couples being married for the first time. The others already know this, or should know it. Link to comment
Rain Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 13 hours ago, katherine the great said: Haven't heard that but it sounds good to me. I don't remember a word of the sealer's advice. I just remember wishing he'd move on to the vows so we could be married. Me too! Our sealer went on and on, and on and on about keeping the commandments. Link to comment
Rain Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, pogi said: The advice that I remember from our sealing is this, our sealer said "the best advise that I can give you is to never let your head hit your pillow before resolving any issues that you might have with each other each night." It seemed like decent advise at the time, to resole any issues and conflict before each day ends - but I think it was a bit idealistic. We tried to live up to his advice, but failed in doing so. That failure to follow his counsel left us feeling a little less then. It made it seem like our inability to always resolve conflict at the end of each day was a sign that our relationship was worse off than it really was. The fact is, there are different dynamics in different relationships and people have different ways, times, and methods of resolving conflict that work for them. And sometimes sleep is the best medicine. I have always hated the don't go to bed angry advice. It hasn't happened often that we were angry with each other, but the few times it did we were much better off getting sleep first. Edited January 15, 2019 by Rain 4 Link to comment
Tacenda Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Pogi, the other "temple changes" thread is closed. Do you mind, hopefully not, if I share this podcast. It was from the 2017 Sunstone Symposium from a faithful LDS man. In it they (audience members as well) discuss inequality and the veil and so forth. I'm starting to think outside pressures make these changes in the temple. Or not starting to think, always have thought it. There were quite a few topics surrounding the temple at Sunstone in 2017. But I'll just post this one. It was good! https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/priestess-unto-the-most-high-god/ Link to comment
The Nehor Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 On 1/14/2019 at 12:23 PM, daz2 said: About 10 years ago was when I first heard a sealer say that sealers had been counseled not to provide marriage advice as part of a live sealing. I have heard the same things from other sealers. But you should definitely continue to counsel for dead sealings because they really need the help. 2 Link to comment
Navidad Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Pardon my ignorance . . . . is the temple sealing the formal wedding ceremony? If so, how is the sealer legally able to marry someone? Am I missing something? In the states where I married folks, I had to register my ordination certificate with the local county registrar. Thanks! Link to comment
pogi Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 9 minutes ago, Navidad said: Pardon my ignorance . . . . is the temple sealing the formal wedding ceremony? If so, how is the sealer legally able to marry someone? Am I missing something? In the states where I married folks, I had to register my ordination certificate with the local county registrar. Thanks! Yes, the temple sealing is the formal wedding ceremony. In states and countries where they are required to register, I am sure they register. Besides temple sealers, bishops are also able to perform marriages too - civil weddings without the ordinance of sealing. 2 Link to comment
changed Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 (edited) Mormon marriage.... no rings, no kissing the bride, no vows of sickness and health, no vows of loyalty or never loving another... no extended friends there, just a small group - no bridesmaids etc. - the "new and everlasting covenant" feels like a polygamy vow to me which is not marriage - is not commitment to a single person. My DH and I may re-do our marriage vows to specifically exclude polygamy, and include more personal and meaningful covenants... Edited January 18, 2019 by changed Link to comment
Popular Post pogi Posted January 18, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted January 18, 2019 9 minutes ago, changed said: Mormon marriage.... no rings, no kissing the bride, no vows of sickness and health, no vows of loyalty or never loving another... no extended friends there, just a small group - no bridesmaids etc. - the "new and everlasting covenant" feels like a polygamy vow to me which is not marriage - is not commitment to a single person. My DH and I may re-do our marriage vows to specifically exclude polygamy, and include more personal and meaningful covenants... There were rings exchanged (as invited by the sealer), there was a kiss over the alter (as invited by the sealer), there were vows which absolutely entail loyalty and love, there were extended friends, probably 60-80 people attended in the largest sealing room in the Draper temple. The sealing ceremony in no way includes polygamy. Give me a break! 6 Link to comment
Stargazer Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Navidad said: Pardon my ignorance . . . . is the temple sealing the formal wedding ceremony? If so, how is the sealer legally able to marry someone? Am I missing something? In the states where I married folks, I had to register my ordination certificate with the local county registrar. Thanks! It depends upon the country. In some countries a strictly civil marriage is the order of the day, and whatever else you do is immaterial. In the UK and Canada (where I have some knowledge), the state only recognizes a marriage contracted in front of a civil magistrate appointed for the purpose. In these two countries, an LDS marriage involving a temple sealing is first solemnized in front of the civil magistrate, and then they visit the temple for the sealing ceremony. 1 Link to comment
bluebell Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 1 hour ago, changed said: Mormon marriage.... no rings, no kissing the bride, no vows of sickness and health, no vows of loyalty or never loving another... no extended friends there, just a small group - no bridesmaids etc. - the "new and everlasting covenant" feels like a polygamy vow to me which is not marriage - is not commitment to a single person. My DH and I may re-do our marriage vows to specifically exclude polygamy, and include more personal and meaningful covenants... In temple sealings rings can be exchanged, kissing the bride can still happen, and bridesmaids and extended friends can still be there, they just aren't a part of the ceremony. Link to comment
ksfisher Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 9 minutes ago, bluebell said: In temple sealings rings can be exchanged, kissing the bride can still happen, and bridesmaids and extended friends can still be there, they just aren't a part of the ceremony. Haven't they asked that the ring exchange be done elsewhere? Link to comment
bluebell Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 7 minutes ago, ksfisher said: Haven't they asked that the ring exchange be done elsewhere? I don't know. Our sealer had ours in the sealing room. Link to comment
ksfisher Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Just now, bluebell said: I don't know. Our sealer had ours in the sealing room. Mine as well. It's in the back of my mind as something that's changed in the last 5 or so years. 1 Link to comment
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