Status of Discovery in Denson Lawsuit

[MiserereNobis]

So, @lostindc, do you still think it doesn't matter that Denson was involved with those mothers interrupting sacrament meeting? Was teaming up with her and the Noah guy an effective way for those mothers to get their message out to the LDS world?

[Tacenda]

29 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

So, @lostindc, do you still think it doesn't matter that Denson was involved with those mothers interrupting sacrament meeting? Was teaming up with her and the Noah guy an effective way for those mothers to get their message out to the LDS world?

It's like her support made them less convincing. They didn't need that, just like when NNN glommed on McKenna, I thought the same. Not good company. I've always felt something off about her, but still believe something was done to her at the MTC and that she was sexually abused, but I don't know the extent, and her childhood sexual abuse as well. That's what abuse can do to people. And she certainly didn't feel the love from the get go as a child, so this can be the outcome. 

[Calm]

9 hours ago, Duncan said:

I bet he feels stupid for following Joseph Bishop around and taping him and all that stuff, trying to promote Denson

He sort of apologizes at the end of the video, says he still  thinks Bishop is a sleazeball, but doesn't think he raped her.

[Calm]

7 hours ago, Tacenda said:

. That's what abuse can do to people. And she certainly didn't feel the love from the get go as a child, so this can be the outcome. 

All this is from Denson though...we have no other evidence about her childhood than herself, right?  What if she had a typical upbringing and her step father never abused her, but she found out people gave her a pass if she told them he did.  (removed some psycoanalyzing that may imply I think Denson is _____ where I was just saying it is a possibility she has lied about all of the abuse all her life because some people do that).

Abuse as a child would explain the latter pathology, but her just being a liar trying to get special treatment from others from her youth could also explain it.

I want to be understanding and compassionate, but she has damaged a lot of people and not just with money.  One guy had to spend several months in jail waiting for trial apparently, even though he was acquitted in the end.  That must have been a horrible experience for him.  And she was willing for that to happen to many if the reports are accurate (iirc Norton said she had accused 5 men of assaulting her).

And her fraud is going to make it harder for many to be as compassionate next time around.  And leave victims wondering if they will be believed, so less likely to come forward.

edit:  misremembered number of men, corrected

Edited May 28, 2019 by Calm

[esodije]

Notwithstanding the “dossier,” I think the church has specifically soft-pedaled the Denson lawsuit in the expectation that she would eventually—inevitably—self-immolate.  I don’t know how much to believe Norton, especially when he says things such as that Denson was sent home early from her mission in Wisconsin for performing oral sex on a male missionary (yet she somehow stayed active in church and eventually married in the temple?); however, Denson is quickly losing friends.

[Calm]

I am debating what to put up from Norton...I am thinking just the claimed police reports in any detail.  If it is purely anonymous source, maybe just the category.

I have got to get some sleep though, days and nights completely reversed and maybe 8, 10 hours in the last three days.  It used to be very fun in the old days when life went that route...these days I just want to puke.  Sigh...

If by chance I sleep, all the evidence may be gone by the time I wake up, lol.

Edited May 28, 2019 by Calm

[bluebell]

Everything is such a mess.  I don't trust Denson, but I don't trust Newton either.  They both seem to have some huge psychological issues and they've both caused harm to others.  Thank goodness I am no one's judge.

[Kenngo1969]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

... I want to be understanding and compassionate, but she has damaged a lot of people and not just with money.  One guy had to spend several months in jail waiting for trial apparently, even though he was acquitted in the end.  That must have been a horrible experience for him.  And she was willing for that to happen to many if the reports are accurate (iirc Norton said she had accused 9 men of assaulting her). ...

And that, right there, my friends, is the opposite side of the "why-would-the-Church-of-Jesus-Christ-settle-if-it's-not-liable?" coin.  Yes, sexual abuse is abhorrent.  Yes, Joseph Bishop likely did some inappropriate things.  But this case is a perfect example of why statutes of limitations exist in the first place.  If a party has a case, by all means, bring it forward, marshal the evidence, have it heard in a timely manner.  Instead, all I've seen here is people and institutions who have had their names dragged through the mud, their reputations destroyed, and their lives ruined, all because no such safeguards exist in the "court" (the kangaroo Court )  of Public Opinion, which, make no mistake, is precisely why Mr. Norton, Ms. Denson, et al have "filed" in that court.

[Kenngo1969]

3 hours ago, bluebell said:

Everything is such a mess.  I don't trust Denson, but I don't trust Newton either.  They both seem to have some huge psychological issues and they've both caused harm to others.  Thank goodness I am no one's judge.

(It's Norton, by the way.)  You're not personally anyone's judge, no.  But that doesn't (and shouldn't) stop you from evaluating the quality of the claims and of the evidence (and, frankly, of the claimants) and coming to at least a tentative conclusion about the quality of the case overall.  While, as someone who's sought redress for various grievances over the years, a lily-white claimant/aggrieved party/Plaintiff versus the evil, villainous, Black-Hat Defendant may be the archetype in various legal dramas, I realize that the archetype seldom (if ever) matches reality. Nevertheless, several of the aggrieved parties in this case seem to have a special talent for being their own worst enemies.

Edited May 28, 2019 by Kenngo1969

[Danzo]

4 hours ago, Tacenda said:

That's what abuse can do to people. And she certainly didn't feel the love from the get go as a child, so this can be the outcome. 

Victims of abuse that I know personally don't do these kind of things.

[Tacenda]

13 minutes ago, Danzo said:

Victims of abuse that I know personally don't do these kind of things.

Everyone is different I guess, are you sure the ones you know are like McKenna's case? Not giving her an out but trying to understand. But if she is accusing people of stuff, yes, you're right to condemn..because those accusations can destroy lives, coming around to your thought process now. Such a difficult thing to see right?!? People that abuse, get abused!

[Tacenda]

4 hours ago, Calm said:

All this is from Denson though...we have no other evidence about her childhood than herself, right?  What if she had a typical upbringing and her step father never abused her, but she found out people gave her a pass if she told them he did.  (removed some psycoanalyzing that may imply I think Denson is _____ where I was just saying it is a possibility she has lied about all of the abuse all her life because some people do that).

Abuse as a child would explain the latter pathology, but her just being a liar trying to get special treatment from others from her youth could also explain it.

I want to be understanding and compassionate, but she has damaged a lot of people and not just with money.  One guy had to spend several months in jail waiting for trial apparently, even though he was acquitted in the end.  That must have been a horrible experience for him.  And she was willing for that to happen to many if the reports are accurate (iirc Norton said she had accused 9 men of assaulting her).

And her fraud is going to make it harder for many to be as compassionate next time around.  And leave victims wondering if they will be believed, so less likely to come forward.

See my response to Danzo...I see what you both mean. It is a mystery of her child sexual abuse until we get some eyewitness accounts I guess. But after reading your post, I hadn't known about the guy that spent several months in jail. She has definitely ruined lives. Even a hint that someone might be a sexual abuser even when they are innocent can change forever people's opinion of them. The world is such a hard place to live in and see the hurt of so many. 

Edited May 28, 2019 by Tacenda

[juliann]

Does anyone know of anything anywhere that corroborates her childhood abuse story? 

[Danzo]

28 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Everyone is different I guess, are you sure the ones you know are like McKenna's case? Not giving her an out but trying to understand. But if she is accusing people of stuff, yes, you're right to condemn..because those accusations can destroy lives, coming around to your thought process now. Such a difficult thing to see right?!? People that abuse, get abused!

Do the victims you know behave this way?

[stemelbow]

What a mess!  If anything is a mess it is this whole episode.  Norton's a lunatic, I'm afraid.  One minute he's acting best buddies with this lady, the next he's threatening to kill her.  I'd be afraid for humanity if these two were representative for more than a few of us.  

[Tacenda]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

I am debating what to put up from Norton...I am thinking just the claimed police reports in any detail.  If it is purely anonymous source, maybe just the category.

I have got to get some sleep though, days and nights completely reversed and maybe 8, 10 hours in the last three days.  It used to be very fun in the old days when life went that route...these days I just want to puke.  Sigh...

If by chance I sleep, all the evidence may be gone by the time I wake up, lol.

https://imgur.com/gallery/Y8TXfKS

This may have been shared already, I lack sleep too, haha! But hopefully the link helps. The exmormonreddit is on fire, everyone feeling bad about jumping in and believing and now taking a step back. They are her worst enemy now. She's in for it since they've handed her money from day one. Or someone else mentioned they've lost their family over sharing her story, that seems a bit much, if true...

Get some sleep Calm!

[Duncan]

23 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

What a mess!  If anything is a mess it is this whole episode.  Norton's a lunatic, I'm afraid.  One minute he's acting best buddies with this lady, the next he's threatening to kill her.  I'd be afraid for humanity if these two were representative for more than a few of us.  

them's my sentiments!!! SO glad I am not a lawyer or a Judge to figure all this out😕

[provoman]

10 hours ago, Calm said:

So ChoosetoResign was his sock puppet?

that is what he posted under his nnn screen name

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Danzo said:

Do the victims you know behave this way?

When I read my previous post you quoted, it didn't make much sense, sorry. And to answer your question, no I don't know anyone personally that has been abused that are like McKenna or anywhere close. I will hopefully take more time when responding in the future. 

 

[juliann]

https://www.plonialmonimormon.com/2019/05/laffaire-denson-and-the-ex-mormon-dilemma.html?fbclid=IwAR0W76TL6M5LsnmMM3MPoVlsNUQVR1ZMyXIMaTcEwZdTkH7STjFDxATJAyA

[Calm]

1 hour ago, provoman said:

that is what he posted under his nnn screen name

Thanks for the info.  Credibility is low given his admitted willingness to deceive when it suits his agenda.

[Calm]

30 minutes ago, juliann said:

https://www.plonialmonimormon.com/2019/05/laffaire-denson-and-the-ex-mormon-dilemma.html?fbclid=IwAR0W76TL6M5LsnmMM3MPoVlsNUQVR1ZMyXIMaTcEwZdTkH7STjFDxATJAyA

Quote

Speaking of the pending lawsuit against the Church, Norton informs Denson that he has been “cooperating” with the Church’s legal counsel David Jordan, has recorded “every conversation” the two have had “for weeks,” and is “going to burn [Denson] at the [expletive] stake.” (He later reveals that he has turned his findings over to the police and to Jordan, and is willing to testify against her in court.)

Now that is unexpected...police I get, Jordan is surprising.

Quote

At one point Norton’s speech turns violent. Punctuating with a shout, he says, “Honest to God, if you were standing in front of me, let me tell ya, I would never hit a woman in my life, I would break your [expletive] nose!” He also warns her, “I want nothing to do with you, ever. And let me tell you something. You know where I live. Show up at my house and you get a [expletive] bullet between your head, your eyes.”

Norton likewise brushes off concerns he’s heard that Denson might commit suicide for him exposing her. “Big [expletive] deal,” he retorts. “One less horrible monster on the face of the earth!”

When Denson sighs “I have nothing to say,” Norton snaps back, “Good, you shouldn’t say anything.” Denson remains quiet while Norton calls her “a stupid [expletive] worthless [expletive]” (later a “racist [expletive]”) and goads her into daring to try to take legal action against him or confront him personally on his accusations.

I just don't see him coming back from this himself with any credibility as a crusader for justice, etc.  What mother would feel comfortable with him having anything to do with her 13 year old daughter as happened in the past, for example?  Who is going to send videos to put up, publicize?

[lostindc]

12 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

So, @lostindc, do you still think it doesn't matter that Denson was involved with those mothers interrupting sacrament meeting? Was teaming up with her and the Noah guy an effective way for those mothers to get their message out to the LDS world?

nope.  The moms can't tell if Denson is lying.  I am sure this will give members ammunition to ignore future claims from victims.

I've mentioned this since NNN hit the circuit.  He has no business teaming up with these individuals.  He's a broken person doing broken things.

 

(Note, I edited to remove "you" and replace with "members"....in no way do I think you would ignore something of this nature, my bad, I apologize on that one)

Edited May 29, 2019 by lostindc

[provoman]

38 minutes ago, Calm said:

Thanks for the info.  Credibility is low given his admitted willingness to deceive when it suits his agenda.

Just a side note update, it seems mckenna has deleted her facebook account that she primarily posted under.

[MiserereNobis]

1 hour ago, lostindc said:

nope.  The moms can't tell if Denson is lying.  I am sure this will give you ammunition to ignore future claims from victims.

I've mentioned this since NNN hit the circuit.  He has no business teaming up with these individuals.  He's a broken person doing broken things.

I have never said anything about me ignoring claims from victims. I can’t believe after all I’ve written that’s what you think. You must be reading with some sort of weird filter/blinder on. 

I liked your post for the second paragraph, which is basically what I have been saying this whole time, albeit using the language of academic rhetoric and explaining in depth.