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esodije

Status of Discovery in Denson Lawsuit

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, jpv said:

Calm, I pretty much see eye to eye with your accounts. To be fair, he did refer to himself as a sexual predator, not just her calling him that in the interview when he says he's been free from it from a few years talking about 12 step/AA: "Yes. I’m Joe. I’m a sexual predator. Now then, how long you’ve been clean from alcohol?"

I don't think it was any program, doublechecking:

Quote

Bishop:  But I have this thing about, I have this sexual addiction, what can I say?

Denson:  But, did you get treatment?
Bishop:  No.
D-So what did you, how ...

B:  I kept fighting, and I kept trying to pray and this and that and everything else to get over it. I'm now, I now feel healed in the sense that I am not tempted 

Forgetting he had therapy...either it was briefly, a created memory, or his dementia is quite significant imo.

Quote

Iwant to think that a normal relationship would've done it. But being .. Idid go into therapy years later, I'd forgotten about that. And the woman there was... [inaudible 01:17:21] that I had, pretty strong, pretty solid addiction, and that fact that Ididn't have a normal life was part of the problem. I don't know how big a problem. [inaudible 01:17:27] 

Therapy of his is not referred to again.

Edited by Calm

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Posted (edited)

One of the accusations of Bishop as a predator was he said no one would believe her...except it is Denson who says it, not Bishop:

Quote

Den:  You... with your addiction, a predator. You were a predator. You preyed on vulnerable women, broken women, who you thought were not strong, and could not -- you told me that no one would believe me.

Bis:  I did?

Den:  Yes you did.

Bis:  I apologize for that.
Den:  I forgive you. But I think you were right. 

That could have been her setting up a nastier story of abuse.  Or it could have been his bad memory.

I had forgotten she threatens to kill him again.  Though understandable she would feel that way if he abused her, it is rather random how she gets there.

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Denson:  And I'll tell you, if you ever touch one of them I will kill you. You know I threatened to kill you, back in 2010?  

Close to the beginning, before any accusations Bishop mentions his poor memory.

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Bishop:  you're gonna bring up the dates? Let me preface that as in, I'm now 85, soon to be 86. My memory is [crosstalk 00:11:13]

Denson:  Not to worry, I'm sure it's still with us.

 

Edited by Calm

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Posted (edited)

He only uses the word predator once, otherwise it's addiction.

Quote

B:  I've listened to you and Iagreed with all you've said, except this thing about ... I think I've overcome my addiction 

D-Okay.
B:  I do.
D-I hope that. Nobody would know that except you.

B:  I feel for the first time in those 30-something, longer than that for me, that I have been successful, at last. I no longer have those feelings. I don't have the stuff that sleeps with me bugging me all the time. I don't. It's gone. I don't know how long. It's been like alcoholics anonymous where they get up and say, "Hi, I'm" ...

D-"I'm Bob. I'm an alcoholic".

B:  Yes. I'm Joe. I'm a sexual predator. Now then, how long you've been clean from alcohol? X-number of years.

D-3 years, 22 days, and 6 hours. 

B:  Yes.

D-I use it to sow, occasionally.

B:  That's where I am with this. I am ... It's been three years, three hours, and whatever, and I feel, at last, at last I'm no longer plagued with those ...

D-With those desires? Okay, but I ... 

I don't think he uses the term "molest" at all, just reponds with a " yes" to a question "did you molest her".  It is confusing because he says he was with Denson when he did it to another, which doesn't make sense.  Most likely he is talking about the sister who he says attempted suicide and then got a medical leave and stayed at Bishop's house, had the frisky backrub that allegedly involved her buttocks (to be precise).

Edited by Calm

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On 5/31/2019 at 5:47 PM, Calm said:

David Jordan had to know that Norton would blab it all over and would not have done anything unethical imo if only to protect himself.

Heh.  This is like Tom Clancy spy book level intrigue here.  

Church lawyer sitting there, wondering what to do about arch enemy Denson.  He has a file with all the publicly available, legally obtained legal history on her.  Lightbulb moment!  Goes and gives a copy of the file to other arch enemy TripleN.  Busts up their alliance, they fall on each other like a pack of wolves.

When it comes to (for the lack of a better phrase) "worldly tricks", I like this one a lot more than when the church bought advertising in the BOM The Musical playbook. 

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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Heh.  This is like Tom Clancy spy book level intrigue here.  

Church lawyer sitting there, wondering what to do about arch enemy Denson.  He has a file with all the publicly available, legally obtained legal history on her.  Lightbulb moment!  Goes and gives a copy of the file to other arch enemy TripleN.  Busts up their alliance, they fall on each other like a pack of wolves.

When it comes to (for the lack of a better phrase) "worldly tricks", I like this one a lot more than when the church bought advertising in the BOM The Musical playbook. 

MN said in one of his videos, that Ethan Krok gave him a copy of the dossier.

MN also stated that it was Ethan Krok, who for a lack of better words, began to weigh MN shelf about Denson.

 

I would provide a time and video, but I can't - there are several videos and I do not recall which one.

Edited by provoman
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6 minutes ago, provoman said:

MN also stated that it was Ethan Krok, who for a lack of better words, began to weigh MN shelf about Denson.

I think the clock has been running on McKenna for a while now, because the only person Mike Norton really cares about is Mike Norton. 

Here's what I had to say about him back when he was 'supporting McKenna' by helping her disrupt sacrament meeting services in Bishop's home ward:

Quote

Mike Norton doesn't care about getting McKenna real help. If he did he would be taking her to see a counselor rather than taking her to disrupt religious services. 
Once the spotlight fades, Norton et. all will move onto something else, and she will be the same troubled woman she is today.
I think that's really sad, because I believe she needs real help. [LINK]

Sounds about right.

 

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2 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Church lawyer sitting there, wondering what to do about arch enemy Denson.  He has a file with all the publicly available, legally obtained legal history on her.  Lightbulb moment!  Goes and gives a copy of the file to other arch enemy TripleN.  Busts up their alliance, they fall on each other like a pack of wolves.

That would run you a "no-brainer."

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Apparently, the attorneys who have represented McKenna Denson in her lawsuit against the Church have withdrawn and do not represent her any more.  

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21 minutes ago, provoman said:

Lawsuit alleging rape at the LDS Church’s MTC is in limbo after lawyers quit the case

 

Craig Vernon - the attorney who filed the case - has withdrawn from the case.

 

 

I'm shocked ... shocked, I tell you! :o:blink:*

*(But only that it took Mr. Vernon this long to withdraw.)

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19 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

I'm shocked ... shocked, I tell you! :o:blink:*

*(But only that it took Mr. Vernon this long to withdraw.)

I am wondering the too. Did he not know the extent of her past or not suspect her recent claims of assault

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Posted (edited)
Quote

“Searching for a bigger law firm. I will set the record straight regarding the allegations made against me, at the direction of my new attorneys,” Denson told FOX 13 on Monday.

Source: https://fox13now.com/2019/06/03/lawsuit-alleging-rape-at-the-lds-churchs-mtc-is-in-limbo-after-lawyers-quit-the-case/?fbclid=IwAR3g5OeMP6n63HiKpY_4dPXYHYtfk8KrX8zUVAIMXrnDZ3cGtVyGeMbcVlQ

Note to Ms. Denson: The attorneys at the "bigger law firm" (assuming you find such a firm and/or such attorneys who are willing to take on the case, given the absolute mess you have made of it) :rolleyes:  are going to give you the same advice that Messrs. Vernon and Orritt tried to give you, and you're probably going neither to like it nor to heed it any better when it comes from them than you did when it came from the Messrs. Vernon and Orritt:

Shut ...

Your ...

Pie ...

Hole!

Had you simply done that one thing, you probably could have emerged from this entire, drawn-out, sorry saga a reasonably-sympathetic (not to mention reasonably-well-compensated) figure.  As it is, the more you talk, the less sympathetic you become.

When Mike Norton, of all people ...

... who holds absolutely no brief for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or for its leaders, and who would, as a consequence, be one of the unlikeliest of people to pass up any opportunity to make the Church of Jesus Christ or its leaders look bad ...

... turns on you, you should probably get at least the faintest, hint-of-a-wisp of a clue that things aren't going well for you (as well as, perhaps, the teeniest, tiniest, itsy-bitsiest hint-of-a-wisp-of-a-clue as to why that might be so).

But I ain't holdin' my breath! :rolleyes:

P.S.: The time to go on the talk-show circuit/media blitz/etc. in order to demonize all of the people and institutions who have done you wrong is AFTER YOU WIN!  Your impatience on that score, more than any other single thing, has cost you most dearly!

Edited by Kenngo1969
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1 hour ago, Okrahomer said:

Apparently, the attorneys who have represented McKenna Denson in her lawsuit against the Church have withdrawn and do not represent her any more.  

Hear ye, hear ye...calling all attorneys on the board, McKenna needs your help! ;)

But wouldn't it be something if she found someone and it came around to her not lying about Bishop?!?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, provoman said:

I am wondering the too. Did he not know the extent of her past or not suspect her recent claims of assault

He got the same dossier Bishop gave to the press.  How could he not know the vast majority?

Edited by Calm
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10 minutes ago, Calm said:

He got the same dossier Bishop gave to the press.  How could he not know the vast majority?

She must have been able to convince him that the information didn't mean her claim wasn't true.....until something happened and she couldn't convince him of that anymore.  

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News Flash!

Attorneys want to believe their clients, folks. 

(Some clients, however, make that far more difficult to do than do others.)

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Calm said:

He got the same dossier Bishop gave to the press.  How could he not know the vast majority?

 

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

She must have been able to convince him that the information didn't mean her claim wasn't true.....until something happened and she couldn't convince him of that anymore.  

Yes he would have had the same. From another article "“Ms. Denson’s productions and responses to interrogatories are incomplete and inconsistent with her deposition testimony,” court documents state. “For example, Ms. Denson testified that she is writing a book about her allegations and this case. She produced only a single page 'outline' and, when pressed, she indicated that was all she had written. Just a few days later, however, Ms. Denson posted on social media that her book is 'nearly complete“

That origin of that quote is a document the attorney for the church filed, the same document listed how she denied having a reddit account.

Edited by provoman
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3 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

I'm shocked ... shocked, I tell you! :o:blink:*

*(But only that it took Mr. Vernon this long to withdraw.)

The temporary triumph of hope over good sense.

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2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Hear ye, hear ye...calling all attorneys on the board, McKenna needs your help! ;)

But wouldn't it be something if she found someone and it came around to her not lying about Bishop?!?

Sounds like you are hoping for a certain outcome.

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3 minutes ago, Danzo said:

Sounds like you are hoping for a certain outcome.

No, I was trying to be fair to both sides at the same time. Bishop still has some 'splainin to do!

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2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

No, I was trying to be fair to both sides at the same time. Bishop still has some 'splainin to do!

That's fair, but it's going to be next to impossible to get the straight story out of anyone involved here: It will be next to impossible to get it from Mr. Bishop, who, apparently, is neither lucid, nor coherent, nor competent; and, while Mr. Bishop may well have done something(s) inappropriate to Ms. Denson, she has contradicted even herself so many times that it will be difficult for anyone to believe her even when she's telling the truth.

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Withdrawing as counsel in a lawsuit is not a pro forma process. Normally one would have to show some cause, and, more often than not, it’s that the client is not following the lawyer’s advice or is not complying with court orders or lawful discovery requests. In this case, it appears the latter may be true, although everyone seems to be piling on Denson at this point.

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27 minutes ago, esodije said:

Withdrawing as counsel in a lawsuit is not a pro forma process. Normally one would have to show some cause, and, more often than not, it’s that the client is not following the lawyer’s advice or is not complying with court orders or lawful discovery requests. In this case, it appears the latter may be true, although everyone seems to be piling on Denson at this point.

Is it normal for withdrawing counsel to have the withdrawal motion sealed?

And I agree, that not complying with discovery request and deposition testimony that is contradicted appear to be likely the reasons for the withdrawal.

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

I'm shocked ... shocked, I tell you! :o:blink:*

*(But only that it took Mr. Vernon this long to withdraw.)

 

12 hours ago, USU78 said:

The temporary triumph of hope over good sense.

Perhaps, but when it comes to deciding how much money (if any) to award in a suit for nonpayment of attorney fees, any judge worth his or her salt is going to ask, precisely, how long "temporary" might last in the mind of reasonable counsel who find themselves in the position of the Messrs. Vernon and Orritt, respectively.  I'd have to figure out how to phrase this in Judge-Speak , but, essentially, one of my first questions (if not the very first) would be, "Counsel, you've known for how long that your client is Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs, yet you've waited until now to move to withdraw [and/or to sue for unpaid fees and costs]?  Sorry, but that dog don't hunt."

Edited by Kenngo1969
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26 minutes ago, provoman said:

Is it normal for withdrawing counsel to have the withdrawal motion sealed? ...

Keep in mind, I am not a licensed attorney:  I just "play" one here at MD&DB.  :fool: :unknw: If the withdrawal motion says (essentially, if not in so many words: translate it into lawyer-and-judge-speak as necessary), "Your Honor, we can no longer represent our client effectively because she's Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs," or otherwise discloses sensitive information about the case or about the client in support of the withdrawal, I can see a Judge granting a motion to seal so as to not make an even bigger mess of the case than has already been made of it (and, thereby, not even further prejudicing the Plaintiff or her case than has already occurred).

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