Status of Discovery in Denson Lawsuit

[provoman]

17 minutes ago, JAHS said:

Wonder how Norton feels now about making this little video on the day McKenna gave her "testimony" in Sacrament meeting?
Their attitude makes me sick to my stomach. 

 

he deleted from his youtube those videos

[MustardSeed]

17 minutes ago, provoman said:

he deleted from his youtube those videos

What are they, 11? 

[readstoomuch]

That video is awful.  I watched her former attorney Craig Vernon`s video on his practice website.  I don’t care much for him either.  Mike, McKenna and Mr Vernon have all decided beforehand that we as a. Church are guilty of everything they allude to.  The word doesn’t get to wait until all of the facts come out.  This all argues against coming to an opinion quickly and using media to suit one`s motives. 

[MustardSeed]

7 minutes ago, readstoomuch said:

That video is awful.  I watched her former attorney Craig Vernon`s video on his practice website.  I don’t care much for him either.  Mike, McKenna and Mr Vernon have all decided beforehand that we as a. Church are guilty of everything they allude to.  The word doesn’t get to wait until all of the facts come out.  This all argues against coming to an opinion quickly and using media to suit one`s motives. 

I often find when I allow myself an early opinion that I am wrong.  And sometimes, embarrassingly so. 

[LoudmouthMormon]

One thing this whole story did do, is get all us LDS folks to start watching a couple of NNN's videos.

[Carborendum]

On 6/5/2019 at 3:15 PM, LoudmouthMormon said:

One thing this whole story did do, is get all us LDS folks to start watching a couple of NNN's videos.

NT, is that you?  I didn't know you were here?

[LoudmouthMormon]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

NT, is that you?  I didn't know you were here?

Dude!  Had no idea you were here.  There's an "I miss Carb" thread at the other site.

[Kenngo1969]

2 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Dude!  Had no idea you were here.  There's an "I miss Carb" thread at the other site.

I'm more of a carnivore, myself.

[esodije]

The discussion I’d like to see, aside from the statements of Bishop’s other reported victims, has to do with the fact that Denson didn’t exist with Bishop in a vacuum in the MTC.  Denson had a companion there, and the MTC has always strongly emphasized the importance of staying with one’s missionary companion 24/7. Did the companion accompany Denson to counseling sessions (even if only to sit outside and wait), or would she possibly say that Denson made a habit of ditching her and wandering the MTC by herself? Denson and her companion would  have been part of, and attended classes with, a district of 8-12 missionaries, all of whom would have become well-acquainted with Denson during their two-month stay at the MTC.  In addition, their district would have been part of a branch, led by a branch president who almost certainly would, at least, have been in the loop with regard to any counseling Denson received. Finally, the MTC has always had career administrators who oversee day-to-day operations, and at least one of them would been closely associated with the branch.  Occasionally, I have seen online comments from people who knew Denson at the MTC or had interactions with her there. I won’t repeat what these people wrote, since I wouldn’t be able to provide citations to this or that forum or article, but such people are out there. They could provide a lot of background details, including whether Bishop seemed to take an inordinate interest in Denson.

 

 

 

[Avatar4321]

17 minutes ago, esodije said:

The discussion I’d like to see, aside from the statements of Bishop’s other reported victims, has to do with the fact that Denson didn’t exist with Bishop in a vacuum in the MTC.  Denson had a companion there, and the MTC has always strongly emphasized the importance of staying with one’s missionary companion 24/7. Did the companion accompany Denson to counseling sessions (even if only to sit outside and wait), or would she possibly say that Denson made a habit of ditching her and wandering the MTC by herself? Denson and her companion would  have been part of, and attended classes with, a district of 8-12 missionaries, all of whom would have become well-acquainted with Denson during their two-month stay at the MTC.  In addition, their district would have been part of a branch, led by a branch president who almost certainly would, at least, have been in the loop with regard to any counseling Denson received. Finally, the MTC has always had career administrators who oversee day-to-day operations, and at least one of them would been closely associated with the branch.  Occasionally, I have seen online comments from people who knew Denson at the MTC or had interactions with her there. I won’t repeat what these people wrote, since I wouldn’t be able to provide citations to this or that forum or article, but such people are out there. They could provide a lot of background details, including whether Bishop seemed to take an inordinate interest in Denson.

 

 

 

That is an excellent point. Where was her companion?

[Calm]

Her Spanish teacher said she was called out of class, not her and her companion.  Can't remember if she was asked that.  Seems unlikely that the companion would join her for a private counseling session and the companion would have been stuck waiting for her in the office rather than spending valuable time learning language, etc.

So I suspect her companion wasn't with her for some of it, but she might be able to speak to the length of the separations and if she remembers any of Denson's behaviour.

And I have read comments by a few claiming to know Denson at the MTC.  It would be interesting to see documentation and input from those who didn't volunteer info as well as those who have.

[Rain]

3 hours ago, esodije said:

The discussion I’d like to see, aside from the statements of Bishop’s other reported victims, has to do with the fact that Denson didn’t exist with Bishop in a vacuum in the MTC.  Denson had a companion there, and the MTC has always strongly emphasized the importance of staying with one’s missionary companion 24/7. Did the companion accompany Denson to counseling sessions (even if only to sit outside and wait), or would she possibly say that Denson made a habit of ditching her and wandering the MTC by herself? Denson and her companion would  have been part of, and attended classes with, a district of 8-12 missionaries, all of whom would have become well-acquainted with Denson during their two-month stay at the MTC.  In addition, their district would have been part of a branch, led by a branch president who almost certainly would, at least, have been in the loop with regard to any counseling Denson received. Finally, the MTC has always had career administrators who oversee day-to-day operations, and at least one of them would been closely associated with the branch.  Occasionally, I have seen online comments from people who knew Denson at the MTC or had interactions with her there. I won’t repeat what these people wrote, since I wouldn’t be able to provide citations to this or that forum or article, but such people are out there. They could provide a lot of background details, including whether Bishop seemed to take an inordinate interest in Denson.

 

 

 

I was there in 1989. I had a companion that would refuse to come to breakfast. I am a type 1 diabetic and needed to eat breakfast. I was given permission to go alone. So being without your companion isn't unheard of, though I don't remember other times.

[esodije]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

Her Spanish teacher said she was called out of class, not her and her companion. 

My MTC companion in 1979 had various distractions, including multiple meetings with a BYU professor about the then-novel idea of translating the Book of Mormon into various Eastern European languages using Esperanto (and my companion’s pen pals behind the Iron Curtain) as an intermediary.  I went with him everywhere—my learning Spanish and memorizing the missionary discussions were definitely considered subordinate to the necessity of staying with my companion. I believe it unlikely that priorities were any different there in 1984, but in any case the people who knew Denson in the MTC could provide great insight into her comportment and her presumed meetings with Bishop. Why people are so dismissive about all this is something I’ve never understood.

[Tacenda]

14 minutes ago, esodije said:

My MTC companion in 1979 had various distractions, including multiple meetings with a BYU professor about the then-novel idea of translating the Book of Mormon into various Eastern European languages using Esperanto (and my companion’s pen pals behind the Iron Curtain) as an intermediary.  I went with him everywhere—my learning Spanish and memorizing the missionary discussions were definitely considered subordinate to the necessity of staying with my companion. I believe it unlikely that priorities were any different there in 1984, but in any case the people who knew Denson in the MTC could provide great insight into her comportment and her presumed meetings with Bishop. Why people are so dismissive about all this is something I’ve never understood.

Maybe many don't know the name McKenna Denson. But if it came out in the news as the name she had at the MTC, more might come forward and either verify or disagree with what really happened.

[Rain]

7 hours ago, esodije said:

My MTC companion in 1979 had various distractions, including multiple meetings with a BYU professor about the then-novel idea of translating the Book of Mormon into various Eastern European languages using Esperanto (and my companion’s pen pals behind the Iron Curtain) as an intermediary.  I went with him everywhere—my learning Spanish and memorizing the missionary discussions were definitely considered subordinate to the necessity of staying with my companion. I believe it unlikely that priorities were any different there in 1984, but in any case the people who knew Denson in the MTC could provide great insight into her comportment and her presumed meetings with Bishop. Why people are so dismissive about all this is something I’ve never understood.

If she were called out for counseling then the situation would be more like my needing breakfast and could be alone than for you going with your companion with a special assignment though. 

I'm not being dismissive nor am I likely to believe anything she says at this point without a lot of verification, but I just don't think your situation is that similar to what she describes as happening.

And truly one of the big difference besides the nature of what you were doing is you are male and she is female, and differences in how we are treated, even today abound. 

I'm not a Denson cheerleader by any means. I just think if you are trying to get to the truth then it is important to also look at things that are contrary to what you want to have happened as well as what agrees with it. 

Either way, I agree that I would really like people who were actually there to speak up, though I don't know how great memory will be about it for those in class. I would be really surprised if any of the elders remembered me eating with the group of them alone. Why would they? I remember having had an interview with my branch president alone, but I can't tell you a single thing about it or even what he looked like. I highly doubt those in class would remember me being called out, but may remember that a number of us or all were.

The only thing I would expect from a memory from them were if she came back flustered or upset. Something to make the memory different.

 

Edited June 9, 2019 by Rain

[Calm]

I would have had doubts about anyone remembering except for the fact one person came up with her name prior to it being released. It seems as if she may have stood out. 

[esodije]

5 hours ago, Calm said:

I would have had doubts about anyone remembering except for the fact one person came up with her name prior to it being released. It seems as if she may have stood out. 

I think it’s safe to say Sister June Hughes made an enduring impression in the MTC. Believe me—if her “morning” Spanish teacher remembered her, all of her district-mates would remember much more about her.

[Carborendum]

On 6/6/2019 at 4:52 PM, LoudmouthMormon said:

Dude!  Had no idea you were here.  There's an "I miss Carb" thread at the other site.

I just needed a change of scenery.

[provoman]

5 hours ago, esodije said:

I think it’s safe to say Sister June Hughes made an enduring impression in the MTC. Believe me—if her “morning” Spanish teacher remembered her, all of her district-mates would remember much more about her.

someone who claimed to known her in the MTC/Mission named her before she released her name.

Leaving an impression does not negate another thing. Good happens to people. Bad happens to people.

[esodije]

On 6/9/2019 at 1:11 PM, provoman said:

Leaving an impression does not negate another thing. Good happens to people. Bad happens to people.

As Paul Simon would say, “[A] man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.” When I listened to Denson’s original recording of Bishop, the one question that stuck with me was how, even in a prior incarnation, this aggressive, angry woman would possibly have acceded, in any respect, to the sexual advances of some middle-aged f*rt without a couple of well-aimed and extremely effective kicks to the latter’s groin area.

[smac97]

By way of update, McKenna Denson has recently (as in yesterday) filed a motion asking for a second extension of time to find a lawyer.

I suspect the Court will grant this motion, but not any further requests.  We'll see.

Thanks,

-Smac

[provoman]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

By way of update, McKenna Denson has recently (as in yesterday) filed a motion asking for a second extension of time to find a lawyer.

I suspect the Court will grant this motion, but not any further requests.  We'll see.

Thanks,

-Smac

That filing looks exactly like the previous extension request, which also asserts that an attorney has agreed to review the case. Do you think the Judge would require some showing that an attorney or firm has agreed to review the case?

[smac97]

2 minutes ago, provoman said:

That filing looks exactly like the previous extension request, which also asserts that an attorney has agreed to review the case.

It is.  It even includes the previous extension date (to June 10, 2019).  It looks like she just sent in the same one on two separate dates.

2 minutes ago, provoman said:

Do you think the Judge would require some showing that an attorney or firm has agreed to review the case?

For a pro se litigant?  Probably not.  However, I think the judge will give her a further extension with a clarification that no others will be granted.

To be frank, the Church's attorneys may want to just stipulate to the extension.  I think the more time that passes lessens the likelihood of her finding an attorney, and also probably lessens her enthusiasm for pursuing the case.  And stipulating would make things easy for the court.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

It is.  It even includes the previous extension date (to June 10, 2019).  It looks like she just sent in the same one on two separate dates.

For a pro se litigant?  Probably not.  However, I think the judge will give her a further extension with a clarification that no others will be granted.

To be frank, the Church's attorneys may want to just stipulate to the extension.  I think the more time that passes lessens the likelihood of her finding an attorney, and also probably lessens her enthusiasm for pursuing the case.  And stipulating would make things easy for the court.

Thanks,

-Smac

And why wouldn't you want to represent McKenna smac97?

[USU78]

3 hours ago, smac97 said:

By way of update, McKenna Denson has recently (as in yesterday) filed a motion asking for a second extension of time to find a lawyer.

I suspect the Court will grant this motion, but not any further requests.  We'll see.

Thanks,

-Smac

Agreed, and it will be under the "enough rope to hang one's self" rubric.