Jump to content

Recommended Posts

My inevitably controversial and unpopular contribution: after what I've seen firsthand as a Young Men president and the bishopric member over Young Men, I think owning a gaming system is the moral equivalent of keeping automatic firearms, venomous snakes and a liquor cabinet in one's house. Yes, it's possible one's kids won't be harmed by any of the above, but why choose to establish the risk? :unknw:

Yesterday after church, I actually got talking to our bishop about this topic. He said we have a number of boys in the ward who stay up all night playing something called Fortnight and then skip seminary, wag school, don't do chores, have zero interest in learning to drive or going out with girls, and create holy terror for their parents if anyone tries to suggest they have a problem. He said we've had some parents who've been physically assaulted when they've chosen to do something like lock the gaming system in a cupboard. Crazy! He agreed with me: why do parents introduce these things into their children's lives?

Edited by Hamba Tuhan
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

I used to play video games alot. I've slowly stopped over the years. But I can tell you the time I wasted with games I can't get back. I wonder how many blessings I've lost by wasting that time

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, Avatar4321 said:

But I can tell you the time I wasted with games I can't get back. I wonder how many blessings I've lost by wasting that time

And that's the thing. We had an Elder in our ward last year who swore he couldn't even remember his childhood, like almost no memories at all. I asked him why, and he said his parents just let him spend all his time gaming and watching online movies/TV, and so there's nothing really to remember. So sad.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

And that's the thing. We had an Elder in our ward last year who swore he couldn't even remember his childhood, like almost no memories at all. I asked him why, and he said his parents just let him spend all his time gaming and watching online movies/TV, and so there's nothing really to remember. So sad.

Wish I had realized all this years ago. I never really noticed it before but when I was actively gaming, I was incredibly anxious, depressed, and had zero self esteem.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, Avatar4321 said:

I never really noticed it before but when I was actively gaming, I was incredibly anxious, depressed, and had zero self esteem.

Yeah, experts are still debating causation vs correlation, but the literature is clear: gaming and depression occur together at statistically significant levels.

Share this post


Link to post

Don’t play.  Have never played.  Didn’t ever buy a video game console for my children.  Never understood the attraction.  Don’t begrudge those who do.

Share this post


Link to post
23 hours ago, The Nehor said:

It is a problem for some especially when it becomes an addiction or a crippling form of escapism.

Although in most cases it's not an addiction so much as being self-centered and not being taught to focus on others - particularly ones wife and kids. i.e. I'm skeptical this has much to do with video games in most cases. I see the same thing with people into guns/hunting or sports. The reality is that when you get married you should be prepared to give up a lot of your extracurricular loves for the betterment of the family. I used to ski all the time. Now I'm lucky if I make it out once or twice a year. But I know people with family and kids who didn't let their responsibilities get in the way of hitting the slopes or the crags. Video games are no different. Lots of men who don't understand what it is to be a husband and father.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

I don't have a problem with gaming.  I do it once a week, on Saturday night, after my daughter has gone to bed, for a few hours.  Time limits and confining gaming to low priority times of the day are key.

I think excessive gaming is a lot like watching excessive TV.  The big difference is, society is so used to so many people who rot in front of the TV all day that no one really cares anymore, whereas gaming is less familiar and seems scarier.  But I don't think gaming is evil or addictive per se the way drugs and pornography are evil and addictive.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, clarkgoble said:

Although in most cases it's not an addiction so much as being self-centered and not being taught to focus on others - particularly ones wife and kids. i.e. I'm skeptical this has much to do with video games in most cases. I see the same thing with people into guns/hunting or sports. The reality is that when you get married you should be prepared to give up a lot of your extracurricular loves for the betterment of the family. I used to ski all the time. Now I'm lucky if I make it out once or twice a year. But I know people with family and kids who didn't let their responsibilities get in the way of hitting the slopes or the crags. Video games are no different. Lots of men who don't understand what it is to be a husband and father.

I have a hard time agreeing, though I lack experiences. I tend to think that so-called real activities are more healthy physically and mentally than virtual activities. Just guessing. Not trying to be Mr. Sociologist.  But I, who have never skiied, hunted, and have caught one little fish once, would be much more pleased to see my grandchildren have an interest, or even an obsession with any of those things instead of video games. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

Video games are no different than other forms of entertainment, like TV, movies, sports, etc. There are good games and bad games just like there are good TV shows and bad ones. Mario Kart is not the same as Resident Evil, just as Little House on the Prairie is not the same as Saw 1-whatever. What's important is to make good choices about which games you play and make sure that you're not spending too much time playing.

We let our kids play video games maybe once a week for an hour or two at most. Fortnite is not an option, as we don't let our kids play any games where they're hurting other people. But racing simulators, Lego video games, etc. have not been an issue. We let our oldest play Minecraft initially, as it seemed fairly harmless. But we noticed him getting way too into it after a couple weeks, talking about it nonstop, dreaming about it, etc. and decided it wasn't a good game for him and deleted it.

Unfortunately, with kids who are addicted to video games and disrespectful/abusive to parents and others, most of the blame lies with the parents. I've made it abundantly clear to my children that if they don't follow our rules with video games or any kind of media, they will not have them anymore.

That said, I find it problematic to forbid all access to media, phones, and video games because it will leave my kids completely unprepared for the freedom that comes with adulthood. When they're away at college or out on their own, they'll be able to watch and play whatever they want on whatever device they want for as long as they want. If I haven't prepared them to make responsible choices with their time and consumption of media because I've just forbidden everything, then I haven't done my job as a father.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
9 hours ago, 3DOP said:

I have a hard time agreeing, though I lack experiences. I tend to think that so-called real activities are more healthy physically and mentally than virtual activities. Just guessing. Not trying to be Mr. Sociologist.  But I, who have never skiied, hunted, and have caught one little fish once, would be much more pleased to see my grandchildren have an interest, or even an obsession with any of those things instead of video games. 

It may well be they're more healthy. (I certainly agree) However the problem I was commenting on was doing any activity to the neglect of ones responsibilities - whether they be educational, work, or family. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

As others have pointed out, anything carried to an extreme can be obsessive. I tried to tell my parents this same thing about the more than 20 hours a week we spent pre-3-hour block getting ready for, driving to, attending, and returning from Priesthood, Sunday School, Sacrament, Fireside, Mutual, Primary, and Seminary.

😮

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

A couple years ago I was the 2nd counselor in the YM presidency.  One Sunday we had a Bishopric counselor visit the deacons quorum to give a lesson.  The lesson was on the sabbath, and this was just after church leaders had emphasized sabbath day observance while stating that they were not going to give people lists of ok/not ok activities.  

This bishopric counselor was clearly trying to not give the deacons a list of ok/not ok activities, but I could tell he had some in mind as not ok.  One he was fishing for was playing video games on the sabbath.  Of course, the obnoxious deacon (every quorum has one) raised his hand and said that at his house he and his dad keep the sabbath by playing video games together, but to recognize the sabbath they don't play the real violent ones on Sunday.  Clearly this was not the answer he was fishing for!  

 

 

Share this post


Link to post

A bit of a controversial figure and not all points may be correct. But if nothing else, the statistics are worth hearing.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

He says the US is the worse for Western countries having a father available...so marriage culture doesn't seem to be equivalent to having a father (other countries couples may not be getting married, but fathers stick around?)

Edited by Calm

Share this post


Link to post
On 1/13/2019 at 9:04 PM, Hamba Tuhan said:

Yeah, experts are still debating causation vs correlation, but the literature is clear: gaming and depression occur together at statistically significant levels.

This.

It could be that depressed people are attracted to gaming. Correlation does not establish causation. A controlled experiment would need to be designed. For example, we could start with 1000 non-depressed volunteers. Randomly assign them to different treatment groups. The control group would not play at all. Another group might play 1 hour per day while a third might play 2 hours per day and so on. Professionals would need to evaluate the levels of depression among the volunteers. It would not be cheap or quick.

Share this post


Link to post

Ain't much of a "gamer," video-game-wise speaking.  I, of course, do not have any kids, because it takes two to, well, you know:huh:   I don't really have the fine motor control or manual dexterity to really be successful at it.  If I had a system and Madden NFL, or whatever, I might become addicted to that.  I could see myself becoming addicted to something like LA Noire as a guilty pleasure because of the storylines and subject matter and because of my background (having grown up in a law enforcement family, [perhaps stupidly] having gotten a degree in criminal justice, and [perhaps more stupidly still] having gotten a heretofore-useless law degree).  On the other hand, I might simply be sitting there saying, "Wait!  He never Mirandized the guy before questioning!" even though LA Noire is set well before Miranda v. Arizona (the decision requiring cops to warn suspects, "You have the right to remain silent ..." et cetera) was decided.

Generally, my interests tend toward the far more cerebral, "gaming"-wise: Text Twist 2, my Mom and I challenge each other to see who can get the best score at Daily Jumble, the occasional crossword puzzle (not smart enough to do the Times or anything: "Sixteenth-century French impressionist"?  :huh::unknw: No clue!), Seven Little Words, things like that.  Maybe I'm just copping out, here, but honestly, I think these kinds of things are a little better than killing an hour or two (or several) at World of Warcraft.  They're certainly a welcome diversion from dealing with spoiled, entitled Lexus drivers ("Kiss my ring!  You call that a kiss?  C'mon!  Lick my boots!  Lick harder!" <_<:rolleyes:)  all workday, every workday.

Edited by Kenngo1969

Share this post


Link to post
On 1/13/2019 at 12:54 AM, Avatar4321 said:

It makes me wonder, is this a wide spread problem? How many mission age young men are impeding their progress in life because of video games? How many men are neglecting their families over them?

My wife and I are good friends with a couple who ultimately divorced because of the husband's neglect. Gaming happened to be his outlet, though it could as well have been any number of other things.

The problem with gaming is that it really feeds into a lot of behaviors that guys just naturally gravitate toward. The male brain is good at focusing on one thing, to the exclusion of everything else; couple that with the dopamine released from watching / interacting and guy's naturally competitive nature, and you've got all the trappings of an activity that will keep him distracted for hours on end. 

When I was younger, I used to play EverQuest...a lot. Back then, if you weren't willing to put in 15 - 20 hours a week (minimum), you just weren't going to be competitive. And competitive gaming is where it's at. I'm not playing a game just for fun. ;) 

After I got married though, I soon realized that I just couldn't devote that kind of time to gaming any more - at least, not if I wanted to have a great relationship with my wife. So, I pretty much gave it up all together. 

Oh, we've still got a couple of consoles. My kids like building things in Minecraft, and there's nothing wrong with a rousing game of Mario Kart every now and then, but I don't really consider myself a 'gamer' any more.

My wife once asked me something to the effect of, 'So I'm the reason you had to give up something you loved?' To which my honest reply was, "Yeah, but that's what sacrifice is - giving up something you love for something more important." And I'm much happier living as a good husband, rather than a good cleric. :) 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
On 1/13/2019 at 5:34 PM, 3DOP said:

While true that those who retain discipline and ambition are not susceptible to immoderation, is it not possible that for many, the video game drains discipline and ambition? I have experienced a lack of desire for study in preference for becoming absorbed in a game or even just the internet. I think, as with alcohol, we have to understand that those who cannot control it in their lives, need help. By the way, congratulations for holding your boy off. I am sure you were both gratified when he beat you and you were trying. I wouldn't take something like that from anybody. Video games are not bad, but I think they should be seen as something that can be a problem for many.

I fully accept this as a possibility.

Share this post


Link to post

I still say porn addiction is going to be the next big public health crisis.

I agree with the TED talk that Japan is in worse shape. Their culture is destroying them. A culture that insists you work an absurd amount of hours is surprised no one is willing to have children? Really.

Oh, and please look on in horror at this fine Japanese product advertisement aimed at single guys (Note: Not pornographic, just sad):

 

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

I still say porn addiction is going to be the next big public health crisis.

You may want to have a look at this.

Quote

Oh, and please look on in horror at this fine Japanese product advertisement aimed at single guys.

:shok:

Edited by Hamba Tuhan

Share this post


Link to post
21 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I still say porn addiction is going to be the next big public health crisis.

I agree with the TED talk that Japan is in worse shape. Their culture is destroying them. A culture that insists you work an absurd amount of hours is surprised no one is willing to have children? Really.

Oh, and please look on in horror at this fine Japanese product advertisement aimed at single guys (Note: Not pornographic, just sad):

 

It is actually a fun idea and we have pets for the same reason (to have someone waiting for us at home), so not inherently a bad idea.

The problem was they didn't show him making the least effort to be involved with anyone else or having any joy in his I've otherwise.  So on the one hand, if someone was that alone, I think something like that would be nice...but if it isn't just a stop gap measure, but becomes the desired life...big problem.

I showed it to my daughter, she says if it was Pikachu she'd approve.  It went way too far that he is texting with "her".

Edited by Calm

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, Calm said:

It is actually a fun idea and we have pets for the same reason (to have someone waiting for us at home), so not inherently a bad idea.

The problem was they didn't show him making the least effort to be involved with anyone else or having any joy in his I've otherwise.  So on the one hand, if someone was that alone, I think something like that would be nice...but if it isn't just a stop gap measure, but becomes the desired life...big problem.

I showed it to my daughter, she says if it was Pikachu she'd approve.  It went way too far that he is texting with "her".

Yeah, but pets are not surrogate romantic relationships. I love having my pets at home when I am home but it is not the same. I also have an Amazon Echo but I do not expect it to be (or want it to be) cute and flirty with me.

Edited by The Nehor

Share this post


Link to post

US culture likes to act like none of the men really want women to act like dolls (but our movies would seem to indicate that isn't quite accurate, Weird Science anyone?) but we have imported at least once some of this culture.  Wonder if this restaurant is still open:

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/25/dining/25maid.html

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Calm said:

US culture likes to act like none of the men really want women to act like dolls (but our movies would seem to indicate that isn't quite accurate, Weird Science anyone?) but we have imported at least once some of this culture.  Wonder if this restaurant is still open:

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/25/dining/25maid.html

There is a thankfully minor subculture where the doll thing is much more literal. It is scary.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×