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poptart

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Anyone ever see or hear of non members who do attend ward functions?

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6 minutes ago, Calm said:

Lots. Generally relatives, but sometimes friends, especially kids. 

Huh, so many never do convert...

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Oh yeah, definitely 

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Yep. Lots.

My daughter even just told me about her friend who was even asked to be on institute council this semester though he is the first non member to be on the council at this university.

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I say "any activity to get them inside the building."  Many of us noticed something special--  a unique feeling about the dedicated building, and especially the people, the first time we walked into the Church building. My wife and I later joined the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and never looked back.

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Yes, in just about every ward I have ever lived in.

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We let them in but make them wear a scarlet “N” to designate their nonmember status.

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8 hours ago, Meerkat said:

I say "any activity to get them inside the building."  Many of us noticed something special--  a unique feeling about the dedicated building, and especially the people, the first time we walked into the Church building. My wife and I later joined the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and never looked back.

What did you do before joining the religion, did you have kids before you joined?

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

We let them in but make them wear a scarlet “N” to designate their nonmember status.

Ohh, would someone like me get his in rainbow colors?  Fuscia?  I want mine to be cute!

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30 minutes ago, poptart said:

What did you do before joining the religion, did you have kids before you joined?

No children at the time.  We were just a couple newlyweds.  We were pretty young, so maybe we were the kids.  That was 45 years ago.

Edited by Meerkat

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29 minutes ago, Meerkat said:

No children at the time.  We were just a couple newlyweds.  We were pretty young, so maybe we were the kids.  That was 45 years ago.

In a way I don't blame you, esp. if you clicked with the ward.  Two newlyweds who probably liked kids?  Yeah, big suprise you meshed with the religion.  Read this ones somewhere, 3 classes of people join most flavors of the Christian religion, the hatched, matched and dispatched, the likes of me?  Not so much.

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1 hour ago, poptart said:

In a way I don't blame you, esp. if you clicked with the ward.  Two newlyweds who probably liked kids?  Yeah, big suprise you meshed with the religion.  Read this ones somewhere, 3 classes of people join most flavors of the Christian religion, the hatched, matched and dispatched, the likes of me?  Not so much.

Actually, it was a somewhat noisy ward.  The children seemed a little unruly.  I had grown up in a Lutheran church, where children were kept in a windowed room at the back of the chapel.  We thought "When we have kids, they will sit reverently."  Yep.  That's what we thought.  But, as you say, we did click with the ward, and every ward thereafter.

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12 hours ago, Meerkat said:

Actually, it was a somewhat noisy ward.  The children seemed a little unruly.  I had grown up in a Lutheran church, where children were kept in a windowed room at the back of the chapel.  We thought "When we have kids, they will sit reverently."  Yep.  That's what we thought.  But, as you say, we did click with the ward, and every ward thereafter.

Yeah, that i just will not tolorate, i cannot stand unruly children.  Then again, i like men as well as women so i get to opt out of that extensive hassle. The irony, was baptised lutheran as a child, wish they still taught german culture and language like they used to.  At least the Germanic beliefs are coming back, thats slowly filling the void left by Protestantisms decline.

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16 hours ago, Meerkat said:

Actually, it was a somewhat noisy ward.  The children seemed a little unruly.  I had grown up in a Lutheran church, where children were kept in a windowed room at the back of the chapel.  We thought "When we have kids, they will sit reverently."  Yep.  That's what we thought.  But, as you say, we did click with the ward, and every ward thereafter.

Have to ask, the Lutheran heritage, German or Nordic? 

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1 hour ago, poptart said:

Have to ask, the Lutheran heritage, German or Nordic? 

Proud Norske!

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8 hours ago, Meerkat said:

Proud Norske!

Deutcher volker uber alles, Gott ehre und Vaterland!  Wotan mitt uns!

 

Edited by poptart
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Lavina Fielding Anderson, who was one the September 6 who was excommunicated in 1993, has continued to be active in her original ward going on twenty five years.

 

Quote

My LDS ward, by accepting me, allowing me to serve where I can, and respecting what I can offer has, in significant ways, canceled the exclusion that usually accompanies excommunication. They've helped me stay Mormon."

http://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=58060420&itype=CMSID

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2 hours ago, poptart said:

Deutcher volker uber alles, Gott ehre und Vaterland!  Wotan mitt uns!

I'm with you.  I love Germany and the German people.  I lived there about a year and a half back in the late '60s.  I realize that was a long time ago, but it doesn't seem so long ago as I think about it.  Good memories.  

Our people worshipped the same god back in the day, Odin-- otherwise known as Wotan in German.  He was the god of wisdom, poetry, war, death, divination and magic, and the father of other gods including Thor, god of Thunder;  Baldur, the god of light and radiance, peace and forgiveness, Hodr, associated as the god of winter and the cold as well as being the god of darkness, unlike his brother Baldr, Vodar, the god of vengeance in Norse mythology and Vali, birthed for the sole purpose of killing Hodr as revenge for Hodr's accidental murder of his twin brother Baldur.  He grew to full adulthood in one day of his birth, and slaughtered him with no regret, no heart, and no thought.  He is also the god of flight.  Anything that passes through the sky, whether man made or of nature is under his control *

My Grandfather Odin was named after Odin, the god and father of the above mentioned gods. 🙄

* Credit to Wikipedia for information on Odin and his posterity.

Edited by Meerkat

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9 hours ago, Meerkat said:

I'm with you.  I love Germany and the German people.  I lived there about a year and a half back in the late '60s.  I realize that was a long time ago, but it doesn't seem so long ago as I think about it.  Good memories.  

Our people worshipped the same god back in the day, Odin-- otherwise known as Wotan in German.  He was the god of wisdom, poetry, war, death, divination and magic, and the father of other gods including Thor, god of Thunder;  Baldur, the god of light and radiance, peace and forgiveness, Hodr, associated as the god of winter and the cold as well as being the god of darkness, unlike his brother Baldr, Vodar, the god of vengeance in Norse mythology and Vali, birthed for the sole purpose of killing Hodr as revenge for Hodr's accidental murder of his twin brother Baldur.  He grew to full adulthood in one day of his birth, and slaughtered him with no regret, no heart, and no thought.  He is also the god of flight.  Anything that passes through the sky, whether man made or of nature is under his control *

My Grandfather Odin was named after Odin, the god and father of the above mentioned gods. 🙄

* Credit to Wikipedia for information on Odin and his posterity.

Ah, someone who knows our gods, hail friend.  Vidar, one of Odins sons was always my patron.  Not quite as strong as Thor, but a lot smarter, about as smart as the Allfather.  He's the god of silent retribution, he hangs on the outskirts of society, the boarders between civilization and the wild.  His rune is the Hooksangle, the wolfhook.  At the end of time after Fenrir devours Odin Vidar will jam his foot right in his jaw and kill him, avenging his father.  He also survives Ragnarok and as far as I can tell, takes over leadership of the Aesir and overseas the rebuilding.  Good book for you to read sometime, Der Warwulf, it's about a bunch of protestant farmers who survive the 30 years war by resorting to gurilla warfare.  They call themselves the Warwulves, carve wolfhook runes in threes as boundaries and just hang enemies from trees. 
Reason why I asked about your Lutheran background, that's one thing I held onto as part of my heritage.  The Germans I descended from supposedly came over here after WWI, but we've been here since the beginning, we fought in the revolutionary war.  We fled the 30 years war, some of us stuck around as Swiss Pikemen and I'm pretty sure a few landsknechts.  People here have it so good, they have no idea what people fled from and considering the way we're going we may well have something of it over here soon.  White flight isn't much of an option, we hate each other, we think nothing of just screwing each other over and never consider the consequences to the children and society as a whole.  Somethings going to break soon and I think in the long run it will be a good thing.  IF it takes a bit of violence to shake people out of their entitled minds so be it, as bad as the 30 years war was, it sure fixed a lot of the corruption as well as put the pope in his place.  I'm careful who I say this too, it bothers me the airs some of the Catholics I've known over the years have about some aspects of US culture, esp. our individualism and how Protestantism is so prevalent as well as her ideas about individual liberty, no need for some priest to tell you whats up and how this led the way to the freedom we have now.  Since i've had family that goes that far back it's a big thing for me, not everyone has that in their family tree. 

Freedom isn't free, no religion has a right to impose it's viewpoint on me esp. when you look at the tyrrany religion and state brought on people and at times, it does take violent action to ensure our God given rights are maintained.  That's something I really like about the Mormons, you can talk about these things.  Bring this type of thing up with other people and wow they get mad and uppity, like bringing up history and documented truth is a sin.

You might like this.

 

Edited by poptart

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3 hours ago, poptart said:

Ah, someone who knows our gods, hail friend.  Vidar, one of Odins sons was always my patron.  Not quite as strong as Thor, but a lot smarter, about as smart as the Allfather.  He's the god of silent retribution, he hangs on the outskirts of society, the boarders between civilization and the wild.  His rune is the Hooksangle, the wolfhook.  At the end of time after Fenrir devours Odin Vidar will jam his foot right in his jaw and kill him, avenging his father.  He also survives Ragnarok and as far as I can tell, takes over leadership of the Aesir and overseas the rebuilding.  Good book for you to read sometime, Der Warwulf, it's about a bunch of protestant farmers who survive the 30 years war by resorting to gurilla warfare.  They call themselves the Warwulves, carve wolfhook runes in threes as boundaries and just hang enemies from trees. 
Reason why I asked about your Lutheran background, that's one thing I held onto as part of my heritage.  The Germans I descended from supposedly came over here after WWI, but we've been here since the beginning, we fought in the revolutionary war.  We fled the 30 years war, some of us stuck around as Swiss Pikemen and I'm pretty sure a few landsknechts.  People here have it so good, they have no idea what people fled from and considering the way we're going we may well have something of it over here soon.  White flight isn't much of an option, we hate each other, we think nothing of just screwing each other over and never consider the consequences to the children and society as a whole.  Somethings going to break soon and I think in the long run it will be a good thing.  IF it takes a bit of violence to shake people out of their entitled minds so be it, as bad as the 30 years war was, it sure fixed a lot of the corruption as well as put the pope in his place.  I'm careful who I say this too, it bothers me the airs some of the Catholics I've known over the years have about some aspects of US culture, esp. our individualism and how Protestantism is so prevalent as well as her ideas about individual liberty, no need for some priest to tell you whats up and how this led the way to the freedom we have now.  Since i've had family that goes that far back it's a big thing for me, not everyone has that in their family tree. 

Freedom isn't free, no religion has a right to impose it's viewpoint on me esp. when you look at the tyrrany religion and state brought on people and at times, it does take violent action to ensure our God given rights are maintained.  That's something I really like about the Mormons, you can talk about these things.  Bring this type of thing up with other people and wow they get mad and uppity, like bringing up history and documented truth is a sin.

You might like this.

 

Those Landsknechtes were a pretty aggressive bunch of mercenaries.  I read where "the devil refused to let landsknechts into hell because he was so afraid of them."

My Grandfather Odin left Norway for the gold rush in Alaska.  He and his brother Peter weren't successful mining and panning for gold.  He finally left it and made his living as a fisherman, and a carpenter in the off season in Ketchikan. He was self reliant, and died with his fishing boots on.  I am grateful for his example of dogged determination and faith.

Regarding the Catholics, they were prolific in preaching the Gospel of Christ throughout the world, probably more than any other organized Christian religion.  Were there abuses and mistakes?  Of course.  There have been with probably all religions, including the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints due to the human beings involved.

Another thing I admire about the Catholics is their ministry to the poor and afflicted.  I think of the example of Mother Teresa in Calcutta.  I think of the Franciscan hospitals and other Catholic hospitals in our area.  Our Church has worked closely with Catholic Community Services in our area to jelp minister to the poor, and the Catholics have carried the banner of Pro Life for generations. They also allow for the encouragement of good works in Christian living, which is a view we share with the Catholics.  The Evangelicals tend to focus on "faith alone," which in my thinking, works against the importance of self reliance and charity.

Even so, I told my disappointed parents when I left the Lutherans and joined the Church of Jesus Christ that it was their teachings and influence that prepared me to recognize the truth when I found it.  I have absolutely nothing bad to say about my Lutheran upbringing, nor my angel parents.

I heartily agree with you that most members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe in self-reliance and minimal government support.  When the government provides everything, we don't need God.  So yes, I believe the current move toward socialism is not a good thing.

Freedom isn't free.  We need to be vigilant to preserve it.

Edited by Meerkat

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2 hours ago, Meerkat said:

Those Landsknechtes were a pretty aggressive bunch of mercenaries.  I read where "the devil refused to let landsknechts into hell because he was so afraid of them."

My Grandfather Odin left Norway for the gold rush in Alaska.  He and his brother Peter weren't successful mining and panning for gold.  He finally left it and made his living as a fisherman, and a carpenter in the off season in Ketchikan. He was self reliant, and died with his fishing boots on.  I am grateful for his example of dogged determination and faith.

Regarding the Catholics, they were prolific in preaching the Gospel of Christ throughout the world, probably more than any other organized Christian religion.  Were there abuses and mistakes?  Of course.  There have been with probably all religions, including the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints due to the human beings involved.

Another thing I admire about the Catholics is their ministry to the poor and afflicted.  I think of the example of Mother Teresa in Calcutta.  I think of the Franciscan hospitals and other Catholic hospitals in our area.  Our Church has worked closely with Catholic Community Services in our area to jelp minister to the poor, and the Catholics have carried the banner of Pro Life for generations. They also allow for the encouragement of good works in Christian living, which is a view we share with the Catholics.  The Evangelicals tend to focus on "faith alone," which in my thinking, works against the importance of self reliance and charity.

Even so, I told my disappointed parents when I left the Lutherans and joined the Church of Jesus Christ that it was their teachings and influence that prepared me to recognize the truth when I found it.  I have absolutely nothing bad to say about my Lutheran upbringing, nor my angel parents.

I heartily agree with you that most members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe in self-reliance and minimal government support.  When the government provides everything, we don't need God.  So yes, I believe the current move toward socialism is not a good thing.

Freedom isn't free.  We need to be vigilant to preserve it.

My money would still be on the swiss pikemen, they were just so well trained and did such a good job of scaring even the best knights.  Can thank them for helping end chivalry, that and their evolution into Terciero units. 

Thing is, when you've been harmed as a child, opressed and backstabbed enough by a religion you get to the point where you cannot stand them as a rule and think nothing when their kind gets assaulted by those they've harmed.  The Catholics have done an incredible amount of harm esp to the free folk of northern Europe.  I will give pope francis, he's the first pope i've ever seen who apologized to the Lutherans for the slaughter their kind made happen. 
Also, that's a cardinal value I have, accountability.  I do judge Christians for the harm they do as well as their entitlement.  I'd need to see 4 generations of Christian behavior, the likes we used to see back in the day.  So many of us have been harmed by them and will never forget how we suffered and to a great extent would like revenge of some kind.  Seeing their numbers decline and islam move in is a bit satisfying TBH.  My hope is if Germany survives the migrant hordes that were imposed on them they take a huge swing to the right and return to worshiping our own gods, not those things from the desert. 

Lived in Alaska, besides Hawaii i may well buy a home in my old neiborhood, much cheaper than down here, also a better class of people.  One thing that my Alaska buddies tell me is they watch what's happening down here and are making plans.  They've seen people move into CO and now UT and change the demographic.  Our gun rights are being taken away and now violent crime is going up as well as taxes and everything else.  I don't feel like paying for the mistakes of degenerate garbage people, I say let them and their children be torn apart by the garbage elements they bring with them.  I remember when we had the recession there were states that spoke of splitting from the union, if we get that poor we may see that be a posibility again, can't put boots on the ground if you don;t have the funds. 

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On ‎1‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 5:34 PM, poptart said:

Anyone ever see or hear of non members who do attend ward functions?

This happens all the time.

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My wife and I have been active in our ward for over a year now. So far the only thing we haven't been able to do that we wanted to do is to tithe. It seems to be against the rules for the bishop to accept tithing from non-members. I have sung solos and sung in the ward, stake, and community choirs. I have spoken as a scheduled speaker in a Sacrament service. My wife and I have both testified in Sacrament services. I have spoken at Firesides on the Latter-day Saint history of our area. My wife and I have each individually taught Gospel Doctrine classes. We have vacuumed and cleaned the chapel, attend all the social events, and have hosted the same in our home. This week my wife is hosting the women's book club. We do donate to special projects and give fast offerings. We drive missionaries back and forth from our village to where they live. We attend all three (well, now two) services each Sunday. My wife is very active in the Women's Relief Society. I am also active in MHA and have spoken at several conferences and have prayed before the group as well. The bishop and I have often toured visitors to the mountain colonies to find the graves of their ancestors and I help answer questions for those who come to learn more about their family's history. I also help host the Church History staff who come here to do work with colony history. So, I guess you could say we are very active. We don't just attend. 

To be fair, I think some of the folks may not know what to do with non-members (us) being so active. My sense is that it is not common in a ward for non-members who are not technically "investigators" to attend and be so active on a more or less permanent basis. Some greet us with a cheery "Now when are you going to be baptized?" greeting! We smile and remind them we already were when we were 7 and 8 years of age. It all is in good fun, but sometimes we feel "less than" - maybe like foster kids in a home who every once in a while may be reminded that they aren't really family. To be fair, some in the family may be asking, why are you here if you don't want to join? Why is the leadership allowing you to be so active? We don't fit a paradigm. Maybe others will comment better - but I get the sense our situation is a bit unique. Even Elder Snow, the Church historian greets me as "the Mennonite from the Mormon Mexican colonies!" 

Edited by Navidad

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On 1/11/2019 at 1:08 PM, The Nehor said:

We let them in but make them wear a scarlet “N” to designate their nonmember status.

I like that. I have a goatee and wear blue shirts! Those are my attempts to not be part of the pack! My wife has more trouble understanding the dress code. She says she is always wearing a dress when other women come in slacks and always wears slacks when other women come in skirts or dresses! Sunday is easy in that regard, but other events? She usually calls ahead to a friend and says "now what should I wear?"

 

 

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