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How was two hour church?

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42 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Yeah, well my God can beat up your God!

Celebrity death match!  

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42 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Then you probably don’t have very high regard for high Church leaders ability to receive divine inspiration — which is your prerogative, but it does reflect a rather sharply contrasting worldview. 

I believe everyone is equally entitled to inspiration and I think everyone is equally capable of being mistaken.  

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44 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Yep, cos Jesus never quoted scripture to support his role or teachings ... :rolleyes:

Correct, we have no quotes from Jesus.  

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4 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

It should be ... considering that the language in the handbook, as you yourself pointed out, reads 'normally'.

Well, there are different definitions of normally and, no disrespect (at all) intended, you aren’t the one who gets to define what normally means in this context. 

The majority of babies are still blessed during sacrament meetings, so “normally” still correctly applies to where babies are blessed, even though not all are blessed at church. 😊

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1 minute ago, hope_for_things said:

Correct, we have no quotes from Jesus.  

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32 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Is there an expectation where you live that family members should travels hundreds or even thousands of kilometres to attend a baby blessing?

I don’t have that expectation.  Can’t speak for others.

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30 minutes ago, clarkgoble said:

Well yes, in terms of authority, but I was more talking of practical day to day functioning. I bet in most wards the Bishop doesn't pick who administers or passes the sacrament. Rather as in most wards he just intervenes if he sees something wrong. In most singles wards the person who does the practical work is the EQ President. At least in every singles ward I've been in. 

Handbook 2 20.4.1 reads:

”Under the direction of the bishopric, the deacons quorum president has the privilege and responsibility to invite others to help pass the sacrament. When there are not enough deacons, he counsels with a member of the bishopric to determine who may be asked to assist.”

The bishop is part of the process, not just someone who intervenes when necessary.  In a ward without Aaronic priesthood quorums, while as you say it may be the EQ president who does the organizing, the bishop is clearly the presiding authority and his input should be sought after.   

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44 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Clearly.

And then in Handbook 1 it lists the two 'special circumstances' that function as approved exceptions.

I actually thought Scott was overreacting in the beginning -- sorry, Scott! -- but if one consults the handbooks, it's clear that this is a case of an unauthorised shift in practice (and possibly even doctrine).

Who presided over the ordinance in the case of your brother's child?

A member of the Bishopric.

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

I believe everyone is equally entitled to inspiration and I think everyone is equally capable of being mistaken.  

Not everyone is equally trustworthy. 

And I disagree that everyone is equally entitled. It is a gift, not an entitlement. It depends, one, on whether one is in tune to receive it and, two, the extent the Lord God, in His wisdom and omniscience, sees fit to bestow it. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd

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3 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

A member of the Bishopric.

I'm glad for that. :good:

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Just now, Hamba Tuhan said:

I'm glad for that. :good:

That has been the case in every home baby blessing I am aware of.

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3 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

A member of the Bishopric.

In all instances, including those in which an exception is granted, it must be under the direction of the bishopric. 

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1 minute ago, Scott Lloyd said:

In all instances, including those in which an exception is granted, it must be under the direction of the bishopric. 

No argument here.

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9 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Not everyone is equally trustworthy. 

And I disagree that everyone is equally entitled. It is a gift, not an entitlement. It depends, one, on whether one is in tune to receive it and, two, the extent the Lord God, in His wisdom and omniscience, sees fit to bestow it. 

It’s not about trust in my opinion, and I’m fine calling it a gift, I would say it’s available to everyone.  

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, bluebell said:

As the handbook says “normally,” and not “must be,” the handbook allows babies to be blessed at home (which makes sense, given the hundreds if not thousands of babies that bishops are allowing to be blessed at home).

I suppose it could change at any time but the Brethren don’t seem to mind so far.

I don’t think the Brethren are inclined to micromanage to the extent that the fact of their not intervening should be taken as tacit approval. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

Handbook 2 20.4.1 reads:

”Under the direction of the bishopric, the deacons quorum president has the privilege and responsibility to invite others to help pass the sacrament. When there are not enough deacons, he counsels with a member of the bishopric to determine who may be asked to assist.”

The bishop is part of the process, not just someone who intervenes when necessary.  In a ward without Aaronic priesthood quorums, while as you say it may be the EQ president who does the organizing, the bishop is clearly the presiding authority and his input should be sought after.   

That may well be. All I can say is in the many singles wards I was in, that never happened. It was always organized by the EQ with the Bishop perhaps telling him someone was inappropriate when he saw who was at the table or on the seats in front.

Edited by clarkgoble

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

It’s not about trust in my opinion, and I’m fine calling it a gift, I would say it’s available to everyone.  

Available as the Lord sees fit to bestow it. Which means it’s not an entitlement and should not be regarded as such. 

And it is a matter of trust in that not everyone who claims inspiration is trustworthy. On a trustworthiness continuum, I would place the Brethren and anonymous faultfinders on internet message boards at opposite ends. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd

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Ours was canceled due to wind. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Available as the Lord sees fit to bestow it. Which means it’s not an entitlement and should not be regarded as such. 

God is no respecter of persons, and everyone is entitled to inspiration in my view.   To believe otherwise is to believe in a prejudiced God.   

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

God is no respecter of persons, and everyone is entitled to inspiration in my view.   To believe otherwise is to believe in a prejudiced God.   

God favors those who obey Him and who will “have Him to be their God.” There’s scriptural authority for that. 

And there’s no prejudice about it, as all are capable of obeying Him and accepting Him as their God. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd

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34 minutes ago, MorningStar said:

Ours was canceled due to wind. 

 

What? Ward chili cook-off the night before? 

 

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7 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I agree — which is why I regret a trend toward some couples pushing for having their babies blessed at home on a day other than Sunday to accommodate extended family. Not only does it impose on the bishop, but it deprives the ward of what ought to be a communal experience. 

I can see an occasional accommodation being made for extenuating circumstances. But it seems to be almost a growing fad. 

We blessed our son at home. I had family come in from several states. One group came over 1000 miles to be there. I wasn't  going to have them miss it.  

It was also very emotional for my husband and his family. It was the first big family thing to happen after his dad died.    

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8 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

God favors those who obey Him and who will “have Him to be their God.” There’s scriptural authority for that. 

And there’s no prejudice about it, as all are capable of obeying Him and accepting Him as their God. 

I don't believe that God favors those who obey him, I believe there are natural consequences to our choices, and that God favors everyone and I can justify that particular reading through the scriptures as well.  

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11 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

That would be up to the individual to decide. 

President Nelson said this in 2015...

 

I don't think that Pres. Nelson was talking about little kids running around and playing though, so I'm not sure that's really relevant.  

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9 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I don’t think the Brethren are inclined to micromanage to the extent that the fact of their not intervening should be taken as tacit approval. 

You don't believe that if bishops were allowing an ordinance to be performed incorrectly that the Brethren would intervene?  

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