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How was two hour church?

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The chapel and cultural hall were completely full, but they usually are.  The Bishop stood to close the meeting with about 5 minutes left before the hour.  There was some momentary confusion for a few parents about Primary classrooms; otherwise, everything seemed to go off without a hitch.

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8 hours ago, VAUFLDS said:

We had a greater than normal sacrament attendance and attendance in gospel doctrine was much higher than usual. But I'm the ward clerk so I was there 7 hours and 45 minutes. I didn't expect that to change. All in all, a good day and people showed a willingness to stick around after church for appointments that previously have been squeezed into three hour block. 

Having people stick around for appointments might defeat the purpose, which is to make time for home-centered gospel study. 

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Having people stick around for appointments might defeat the purpose, which is to make time for home-centered gospel study. 

I don't think the counsel we've been given is as rigid as you're making it sound:

Quote

In many parts of the world, people choose to stay at the meetinghouse after the normal Sunday schedule to enjoy social relationships. There is nothing in this announced adjustment that would interfere with this wonderful and rewarding practice in any way.

If it's OK to hold socials after church, I don't see why it wouldn't be OK to have interviews after church. In fact, we've been repeatedly told by our area presidency and local seventies that we should not be conducting interviews during church services as a rule.

Edited by Hamba Tuhan
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5 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I don't think the counsel we've been given is as rigid as you're making it sound:

If it's OK to hold socials after church, I don't see why it wouldn't be OK to have interviews after church. In fact, we've been repeatedly told by our area presidency and local seventies that we should not be conducting interviews during church services as a rule.

Depends on how much time we expect the bishopric to spend in the church on the sabbath away from their families.

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Just now, Bernard Gui said:

Depends on how much time we expect the bishopric to spend in the church on the sabbath away from their families.

Agreed, acknowledging that an interview any day of the week is going to take a bishopric member away from his family (assuming he has one).

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3 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I don't think the counsel we've been given is as rigid as you're making it sound:

If it's OK to hold socials after church, I don't see why it wouldn't be OK to have interviews after church. In fact, we've been repeatedly told by our area presidency and local seventies that we should not be conducting interviews during church services as a rule.

What you say is true. 

I said it <might> defeat the purpose, not that it necessarily would. 

I do think that, going into this, we should be wary about having other things flow in to occupy time that has rightly been freed up for the discretion of families to be used for home-based gospel study. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Depends on how much time we expect the bishopric to spend in the church on the sabbath away from their families.

There are subtle ways we as rank-and-file members might help alleviate this. 

For example, the payment of our tithes and offerings on line through LDS.org. If we still insist on writing a check and handing the payment to a bishopric member, that means at least two people — a member of the clerk staff and a bishopric member — have to take time in their Sabbath day to process our tithing payment. 

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7 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I do think that, going into this, we should be wary about having other things flow in to occupy time that has rightly been freed up for the discretion of families to be used for home-based gospel study. 

With all due respect, I think you have a rather narrow view of what we've been told the Sabbath is for and when/how we can and should be studying:

Quote

This Sunday schedule allows more time for a home evening and to study the gospel at home on Sunday or at other times as individuals and families may choose. A family activity night could be held on Monday or at other times ... However, time spent in home evening, gospel study, and activities for individuals and families may be scheduled according to their individual circumstances ...

In the home-centered, Church-supported portion of this adjustment, there is flexibility for each individual and family to determine prayerfully how and when it will be implemented ...

Sunday can be a day of gospel learning and teaching at church and in the home. As individuals and families engage in family councils, family history, ministering, service, personal worship, and joyful family time, the Sabbath day will truly be a delight.

 

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1 minute ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

With all due respect, I think you have a rather narrow view of what we've been told the Sabbath is for and when/how we can and should be studying:

 

I don’t think voicing caution about use of the extra time we have been given precludes in any way the worthy activities you list here. It is, and always has been, about balance and setting priorities. 

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7 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Is this because more people are coming to church? Or is there some other mechanism I'm missing? (Fewer teachers in primary?)

I think part of it may be they eliminated the other Sunday school classes and most just have one now

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3 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said:

I think part of it may be they eliminated the other Sunday school classes and most just have one now

I think I overlooked this. We've only had four Sunday school classes: gospel doctrine in two languages, gospel doctrine for YSAs and Gospel Principles. Of those four, the only one eliminated has been Gospel Principles.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I acknowledge it wouldn’t work in stakes that are far flung geographically. But it has been many years since I have met in a meetinghouse with a traditional cultural hall. 

 

In my old ward, we had two, so .I guess that makes up for yours.

Edited by Calm
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1 minute ago, Avatar4321 said:

I think part of it may be they eliminated the other Sunday school classes and most just have one now

Whatever the reason, it made a dramatic difference in our ward. I have mentioned here that we ended up holding gospel doctrine in the Relief Society room as in the past because the teacher hadn’t gotten the message that the room had been changed and she had already written a bunch of stuff on the white board. As a consequence, not only were we cramped, but people were bringing in extra chairs for about 10 minutes into the class period. I estimate there were at least a dozen extra chairs brought in. 

In the past, the room has rarely if ever been filled to capacity for Sunday School. 

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2 minutes ago, Calm said:

In my old ward, we had two, so .I guess that makes up for yours.

Sounds like you’ve been meeting mainly in older buildings with designs from yesteryear. 

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18 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Whatever the reason, it made a dramatic difference in our ward. I have mentioned here that we ended up holding gospel doctrine in the Relief Society room as in the past because the teacher hadn’t gotten the message that the room had been changed and she had already written a bunch of stuff on the white board. As a consequence, not only were we cramped, but people were bringing in extra chairs for about 10 minutes into the class period. I estimate there were at least a dozen extra chairs brought in. 

In the past, the room has rarely if ever been filled to capacity for Sunday School. 

Wouldn’t the 14 YM/YW teachers, secretaries, and advisors be in Sunday School now?

Edited by Bernard Gui

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Just now, Bernard Gui said:

Wouldn’t the 12 YM/YW teachers and advisors be in Sunday School now?

They've always been there. Priesthood quorums and Young Women classes haven't met during Sunday school time.

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1 hour ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Agreed, acknowledging that an interview any day of the week is going to take a bishopric member away from his family (assuming he has one).

Yes, of course that would be the case. I tried to do all mine on a weeknight and not on Sunday, but that was not always possible.

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3 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

They've always been there. Priesthood quorums and Young Women classes haven't met during Sunday school time.

Doh! What was I thinking! We did not have an increase in attendance today.

Edited by Bernard Gui

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25 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Sounds like you’ve been meeting mainly in older buildings with designs from yesteryear. 

Just the one.  Was built on to with a couple of additions, had a basement and two stories, two kitchens....best church ever to play hide and seek in.

Other churches were built in 70s or later, standard lay outs (which was ridiculous in Canada, winter made the backrooms miserable).  Current one isn't that old.

Edited by Calm
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10 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Doh! What was I thinking! We did not have an increase in attendance today.

I wonder if some of the increase in attendance is because people are no longer holding the social relations classes out in the halls and foyers. With the block only two hours now, there is less time to be bored. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd
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1 hour ago, Calm said:

Just the one.  Was built on to with a couple of additions, had a basement and two stories, two kitchens....best church ever to play hide and seek in.

Other churches were built in 70s or later, standard lay outs (which was ridiculous in Canada, winter made the backrooms miserable).  Current one isn't that old.

Your one building reminds me of the meetinghouse of my childhood. It had a funky design. 

There was a basement-level “banquet hall” that served as a junior Sunday School room on Sundays (no Sunday Primary back then) and as a Scout room on Mutual nights. It had an attached kitchen that served on Sundays as a sacrament preparation room. 

From there you’d go up a ramp to the ground level where there were classrooms, Relief Society room and bishop’s office. 

You’d climb a staircase to the upper level that included the chapel, foyer and adjacent gymnasium/cultural hall with basketball hoops and a stage.

The building’s front entrance was to the chapel level, but to access it you would have to ascend some concrete steps to a rather spacious front porch. I don’t recall what they did for wheelchair access. There were no ramps that I remember leading to the chapel level. 

We moved away to an adjacent town just before a new ward meetinghouse was constructed. The old one, I heard, was sold to a family of hillbillies who kept a goat inside on the ground level. Heaven must have frowned on the desecration, because the building caught fire and burned to the ground while I was on my mission in the mid-‘70s. 

Edited to add: Forgot to mention that our chapel had a “cry room” in the rear where fussy children could be taken. I guess such facilities were a thing in the old days, because the Salt Lake Tabernacle, before its remodel of several years ago, had one in the rear, sound proof and glassed in. 

Also, our cultural hall had a projection booth for showing movies. It had not been used for as long as anyone could remember and was perpetually locked. We lived in what was then a rural area (I live in the same area now, and it is no longer so) so I would guess that going to the ward house on an occasional weeknight or Saturday to see a picture show was great fun for those farm families of the ‘30s and ‘40s. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd

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7 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Splitting the class is not optimal. One teacher becomes the more popular, making the other feel like a scrub. 

We would surely have the same problem as our teacher is outstanding but we were stuffed in the RS room and chapel overflow is not an option since all three wards in the building use the overflow for sacrament. Add to that the fact that our ward grew by about 35 over the last year. At some point, we are going to have to deal with this. Unoverlapping the wards would not be popular. 

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5 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I think I overlooked this. We've only had four Sunday school classes: gospel doctrine in two languages, gospel doctrine for YSAs and Gospel Principles. Of those four, the only one eliminated has been Gospel Principles.

No separate branch/ward for the YSAs?

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1 hour ago, silvermoon383 said:

No separate branch/ward for the YSAs?

Nope.

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24 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Nope.

Huh, weird.

Anyways, the changeover didn’t really do much for my branch. Since it’s YSA there were no YM or YW promotions, no primary kids to wrangle, just a 10 min shorter sacrament meeting followed by Sunday school. That was the only change for us, instead of the 3 classes (Doctrine, Essentials, and Temple Prep) we all just stuck together and went right into the lesson.

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