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Moving Away from Accountability

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Why oh why are we moving away from the principle of accountability?

We know within the temple there was a reporting back but with the new ministering program there is hardly any? Why?

In the old h/t and v/t program there was, why was it good enough then and not now?

Accountability is a principle of the gospel in every sense but not in ministering, people need to report back if they aren't required to do this then they won't minister 

This means that our most precious resource our members will not be looked after properly 

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When is forced accountability part of progression?

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"Forced obedience yields no blessings."

Elder Richard G. Scott

"26 For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward.
            27 Verily I say, men should be anxiously engaged in a good cause, and do many things of their own free will, and bring to pass much righteousness;
            28 For the power is in them, wherein they are agents unto themselves. And inasmuch as men do good they shall in nowise lose their reward.
           29 But he that doeth not anything until he is commanded, and receiveth a commandment with doubtful heart, and keepeth it with slothfulness, the same is damned."

D&C 58:26-33

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As opposed to just a quick yes/no on whether I saw my families I now sit down and report on each one every quarter. This is accountability.

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I'd argue we aren't moving away from accountability, we are merely moving away from the kind of mortal accountability that lead to ten minute contact on the last day/week of the month that annoyed recipients, and other forms.

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This is one big reason why I never converted to Christianity in the first place, at least here in the states.  Not happy with the idea of someone doing something, repenting of it later and there being no consequences for their actions.  I don't care what Christian holy test the religion quotes from, if the people preaching it aren't big on accountability I could care less about what they have to say.  Then again that's one of my big things, I judge religions like a lot of things, by the people they churn out, the whole church being a hospital for sinners is a cop out for me.  People forget that people leave hospitals either better or dead, they don't just stay there forever.  That's long term care and with that most people usually die there. 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, poptart said:

This is one big reason why I never converted to Christianity in the first place, at least here in the states.  Not happy with the idea of someone doing something, repenting of it later and there being no consequences for their actions.  I don't care what Christian holy test the religion quotes from, if the people preaching it aren't big on accountability I could care less about what they have to say.  Then again that's one of my big things, I judge religions like a lot of things, by the people they churn out, the whole church being a hospital for sinners is a cop out for me.  People forget that people leave hospitals either better or dead, they don't just stay there forever.  That's long term care and with that most people usually die there. 

All individuals do have accountability to God for how they live their lives.  I don't have accountability to you.  Should I?  Are you the judge? 

Poptart, when my wife and I walked into the Church, we felt something special about the people.  I believe that feeling was the Holy Ghost.  I thought "These people are good-- better than me."  I held them high on a pedestal. "If we could just sit in these pews and listen to what they have to say, that would be enough," I thought.

It was a great honor to be invited to be baptized.  Our lives have changed for the better because of what has happened inside of us.  We are more accountable than we ever were before.  But that accountability comes from within.  

Jesus said "37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
            38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
            39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it." Matt. 10:37-39

That is accountability to God.  It's an individual accountability, and It's a beautiful thing.  If you don't minister to me as often as I'd like, you aren't accountable to me.  It's God who will sift the wheat and chaff of your life.  And you will be blessed accordingly, as will I.  We don't do everything we should or could.  But God is the judge.  And He will give us the best reward and the least punishment for successes and failures.  

"Be not deceived.  God is not mocked.  For whatsoever a man Soweth, that shall he also reap."

Maybe that's what you are saying-- Show me your faith without works, I will show you mine by my works. 

Edited by Meerkat
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5 hours ago, poptart said:

Not happy with the idea of someone doing something, repenting of it later and there being no consequences for their actions. 

Should I be concerned with "someone" getting away with something?  There are always consequences.  Some follow the sin even after repentance.  The worst of them are lifted from us through repentance, and carried by the blood of Jesus Christ shed for us so we wouldn't need to suffer if we would repent.  It was hard for me to understand how it works until I did it.  My sins WERE physically lifted.  My guilt and sorrow removed.  And now I joyfully praise the Lord all day long for what He has done for me.  

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1 hour ago, Meerkat said:

Should I be concerned with "someone" getting away with something?  There are always consequences.  Some follow the sin even after repentance.  The worst of them are lifted from us through repentance, and carried by the blood of Jesus Christ shed for us so we wouldn't need to suffer if we would repent.  It was hard for me to understand how it works until I did it.  My sins WERE physically lifted.  My guilt and sorrow removed.  And now I joyfully praise the Lord all day long for what He has done for me.  

And the reason why that is just and fair is because he will do that for everyone who asks and receives...it will take time though for us to receive it though I believe God is working on us as only he can to open us up to his help.  For some reason (and I don't think in most cases the person is to blame) some of us don't feel as open to the spirit and his help as others and they will need to wait to be at a place where they experience it...I believe this is true because of my own experience of not being able to feel the Spirit for a couple of years due to medication.  If meds can cause interference, plenty of other stuff will too.

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8 hours ago, Meerkat said:

Should I be concerned with "someone" getting away with something?  There are always consequences.  Some follow the sin even after repentance.  The worst of them are lifted from us through repentance, and carried by the blood of Jesus Christ shed for us so we wouldn't need to suffer if we would repent.  It was hard for me to understand how it works until I did it.  My sins WERE physically lifted.  My guilt and sorrow removed.  And now I joyfully praise the Lord all day long for what He has done for me.  

Yep, most likely they're still garbage.  Look at our divorce rate, our out of wedlock births, how Anglo families here treat each other, a lot it stems from a lack of accountability.  Also, I've heard people say things like you've said before but they sure don't practice the teachings of their god.  They judge the poor, consider themselves elect and that they really are better than those poorer than themselves.  Funny, for an elect people they sure like to squawk and squeal when they get called out on their hypocrisy.  Bottom line, I’ve been burned at a very bad time in my life and the whole sin being lifted bit, at least as it's practiced in the states reeks of hypocrisy.  I admire those who take responsibility for their lives and quit whatever degenerate behavior they were participating in, those who don't I will distrust.  At least I'm honest about it, on a whole most religious people I've met here stateside are not. 

Look at your religions numbers, like the rest of Christianity they’ve started to taper off, people can’t say one thing and do another and expect people to stick around, esp. nowadays when it’s so easy for someone’s career to be ruined; we’re not all entitled people from the suburbs with stable families and connections.  I’ve known people ruined by religious people and yep, almost every time it happens it’s the same line, I’m not perfect just forgiven.  All that, without a single thought towards the person they just ruined.   

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, poptart said:

Yep, most likely they're still garbage.  Look at our divorce rate, our out of wedlock births, how Anglo families here treat each other, a lot it stems from a lack of accountability.  Also, I've heard people say things like you've said before but they sure don't practice the teachings of their god.  They judge the poor, consider themselves elect and that they really are better than those poorer than themselves.  Funny, for an elect people they sure like to squawk and squeal when they get called out on their hypocrisy.  Bottom line, I’ve been burned at a very bad time in my life and the whole sin being lifted bit, at least as it's practiced in the states reeks of hypocrisy.  I admire those who take responsibility for their lives and quit whatever degenerate behavior they were participating in, those who don't I will distrust.  At least I'm honest about it, on a whole most religious people I've met here stateside are not. 

Look at your religions numbers, like the rest of Christianity they’ve started to taper off, people can’t say one thing and do another and expect people to stick around, esp. nowadays when it’s so easy for someone’s career to be ruined; we’re not all entitled people from the suburbs with stable families and connections.  I’ve known people ruined by religious people and yep, almost every time it happens it’s the same line, I’m not perfect just forgiven.  All that, without a single thought towards the person they just ruined.   

I agree that many societal problems are the result of no accountability.  My point was that conversion to Jesus Christ should result in greater accountability as the person embraces Christ's sacrifice and teachings.  We can, however, choose to turn from our conversion and lose our salvation.  I hope you won't find me pointing fingers at hypocrites, other than myself.  I believe that following Christ, and sharing His message helps us minimize personal hypocrisy, and try to give others the benefit of the doubt.

Edited by Meerkat
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12 hours ago, Meerkat said:

I agree that many societal problems are the result of no accountability.  My point was that conversion to Jesus Christ should result in greater accountability as the person embraces Christ's sacrifice and teachings.  We can, however, choose to turn from our conversion and lose our salvation.  I hope you won't find me pointing fingers at hypocrites, other than myself.  I believe that following Christ, and sharing His message helps us minimize personal hypocrisy, and try to give others the benefit of the doubt.

I'm a heathen and a Nichiren Buddhist at my core, i'll hide nothing here since I have no reason to.  Not so much into finger pointing, I believe we all drive our own bus, it's our choice to stay on the road or drive it off a cliff, nothing more nothing less. 

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2 minutes ago, poptart said:

I'm a heathen and a Nichiren Buddhist at my core, i'll hide nothing here since I have no reason to.  Not so much into finger pointing, I believe we all drive our own bus, it's our choice to stay on the road or drive it off a cliff, nothing more nothing less. 

Exactly.  Well put.

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23 hours ago, poptart said:

Yep, most likely they're still garbage.  Look at our divorce rate, our out of wedlock births, how Anglo families here treat each other, a lot it stems from a lack of accountability.  Also, I've heard people say things like you've said before but they sure don't practice the teachings of their god.  They judge the poor, consider themselves elect and that they really are better than those poorer than themselves.  Funny, for an elect people they sure like to squawk and squeal when they get called out on their hypocrisy.  Bottom line, I’ve been burned at a very bad time in my life and the whole sin being lifted bit, at least as it's practiced in the states reeks of hypocrisy.  I admire those who take responsibility for their lives and quit whatever degenerate behavior they were participating in, those who don't I will distrust.  At least I'm honest about it, on a whole most religious people I've met here stateside are not. 

 

Look at your religions numbers, like the rest of Christianity they’ve started to taper off, people can’t say one thing and do another and expect people to stick around, esp. nowadays when it’s so easy for someone’s career to be ruined; we’re not all entitled people from the suburbs with stable families and connections.  I’ve known people ruined by religious people and yep, almost every time it happens it’s the same line, I’m not perfect just forgiven.  All that, without a single thought towards the person they just ruined.   

 

Being honest about your transgressions is a good step but if you stop there it is pretty pointless. Give me someone who quietly struggles against their sins (often in a way no one else sees) over someone who loudly admits their sins and does nothing about them as if that is a mark of virtue in their favor.

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59 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Being honest about your transgressions is a good step but if you stop there it is pretty pointless. Give me someone who quietly struggles against their sins (often in a way no one else sees) over someone who loudly admits their sins and does nothing about them as if that is a mark of virtue in their favor.

 

10 hours ago, Meerkat said:

Exactly.  Well put.

If only there were more people like you two....

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I wish the RS president would hold me accountable and just release me from my ministering calling. My partner doesn't have anything to do with me, and I'm not good at going alone, like so many other times while being a "visiting teacher" and my partner flaking out on me. Not to make this personal once again, I just wish they'd put someone better to visit these women. I've thought of calling my ladies and apologising, but I think they'd think I was nuts and probably like that no one calls or visits. I think the whole program is not looked at with a positive attitude generally or I belonged to some shallow wards and I was just weird and liked it all these years. Hold me accountable!

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1 hour ago, poptart said:

If only there were more people like you two....

Thanks for the compliment, Poptart.  I think it takes a good part of our lives patting ourselves on the back for what great people we are, what terrific parents we were.  Then one of our loved ones' lives falls apart and there's nothing we can do about it but pray.  That's when we learn about faith in God, and patience--  years of it while we wait for God to help our much beloved child through their Gethsemanie.  

My experience has been that adversaries like that can humble us and prepare us to learn the "Judge not" lessons we came here to learn.

You succinctly said: 

12 hours ago, poptart said:

we all drive our own bus, it's our choice to stay on the road or drive it off a cliff, nothing more nothing less. 

That is true.  Every person is on their own path.  Much as I'd like to control my family member's kindness, sensitivity and obedience to Gospel principles, that's not my role.  I once thought it was, and was definitely one of those self-righteous people you talked about.  And yes, there are a lot of us.  But when family drama and adversity is dropped in our lap, that's our opportunity to really learn about God's love and power.  I thank God for my child's struggles.  I don't know how else I could have learned these lessons.  My faith is stronger now, and I believe God will help him find his best path.

The judging and preaching goes out the window.  It doesn't have the influence we once thought it did, at least not the way we were doing it.  Now, for us, It's about sincere love, acceptance of their choice to follow a different path, and love them anyway because we truly do.  Now, for us It's about learning about God things we didn't know before, His mercy and power, and how to access it.   It's about fasting, praying, attending the Temple more frequently.  It's about digging into the scriptures for the help and encouragement we need, and want for our loved one.

Here is a scripture we see unfolding before our eyes from Joel 2:25:

"25 And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten..."

He is doing It, and I praise the Lord for it.  And I believe He is doing it for each child of God in due time, as best He can.  We still have the choice to stay on the road or drive off the cliff. There, but for the Grace of God, go I.  Our adversities are the raw materials that can teach us about God's love for us and all our fellow beings, in my opinion.  

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25 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I wish the RS president would hold me accountable and just release me from my ministering calling. My partner doesn't have anything to do with me, and I'm not good at going alone, like so many other times while being a "visiting teacher" and my partner flaking out on me. Not to make this personal once again, I just wish they'd put someone better to visit these women. I've thought of calling my ladies and apologising, but I think they'd think I was nuts and probably like that no one calls or visits. I think the whole program is not looked at with a positive attitude generally or I belonged to some shallow wards and I was just weird and liked it all these years. Hold me accountable!

Text them and say hi and ask how their life is. Easy.

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13 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Text them and say hi and ask how their life is. Easy.

It is not that easy. If I did that, then they may think it's my lame way of visiting. And think I just want to say I did it. 

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1 hour ago, Meerkat said:

Thanks for the compliment, Poptart.  I think it takes a good part of our lives patting ourselves on the back for what great people we are, what terrific parents we were.  Then one of our loved ones' lives falls apart and there's nothing we can do about it but pray.  That's when we learn about faith in God, and patience--  years of it while we wait for God to help our much beloved child through their Gethsemanie.  

My experience has been that adversaries like that can humble us and prepare us to learn the "Judge not" lessons we came here to learn.

You succinctly said: 

That is true.  Every person is on their own path.  Much as I'd like to control my family member's kindness, sensitivity and obedience to Gospel principles, that's not my role.  I once thought it was, and was definitely one of those self-righteous people you talked about.  And yes, there are a lot of us.  But when family drama and adversity is dropped in our lap, that's our opportunity to really learn about God's love and power.  I thank God for my child's struggles.  I don't know how else I could have learned these lessons.  My faith is stronger now, and I believe God will help him find his best path.

The judging and preaching goes out the window.  It doesn't have the influence we once thought it did, at least not the way we were doing it.  Now, for us, It's about sincere love, acceptance of their choice to follow a different path, and love them anyway because we truly do.  Now, for us It's about learning about God things we didn't know before, His mercy and power, and how to access it.   It's about fasting, praying, attending the Temple more frequently.  It's about digging into the scriptures for the help and encouragement we need, and want for our loved one.

Here is a scripture we see unfolding before our eyes from Joel 2:25:

"25 And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten..."

He is doing It, and I praise the Lord for it.  And I believe He is doing it for each child of God in due time, as best He can.  We still have the choice to stay on the road or drive off the cliff. There, but for the Grace of God, go I.  Our adversities are the raw materials that can teach us about God's love for us and all our fellow beings, in my opinion.  

Way too complicated for me, and way too much dependence on a god for my taste.  Here's my reply:

Cattle die and kinsmen die, thyself too soon must die, but one thing never, I ween, will die; fair fame of one who has earned. Hávamál (The Speech of the High One)

nam myoho renge kyo : Hail the wonderful Lotus sutra, the supreme teaching of the Buddha.  One of the main (some would say main point) teachings is cause and affect, more you think about it, more it makes sense.

南無妙法蓮華經

 

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4 hours ago, Tacenda said:

It is not that easy. If I did that, then they may think it's my lame way of visiting. And think I just want to say I did it. 

My families must think I am incredibly lame.....and I am okay with that. 😉

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1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

My families must think I am incredibly lame.....and I am okay with that. 😉

My ministering sisters haven't visited once and I've lived in this new ward for about a year. I guess I would love a text every month. 

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Then think of that when you think you sending one would be lame. 

Get off the board and send one right now. It is the beginningish of the mo th so no one will go to ‘end of the month’ pressure. 

You could even present it as you wanting 2019 to be a good year for everyone and saying hi is your way of getting it going. 

Edited by Calm
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Or find a line or two of uplifting poetry and add some personal content relevant to that. Then do the same in a couple of weeks with another line or two 

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