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HappyJackWagon

Rumors of Changes to Temple Worship

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8 minutes ago, rockpond said:

I don't think it was a well thought through reply from @carbon dioxide...

There are number of very valid reasons for potentially shortening the endowment session.  A few I can think of off the top of my head:  The ability to get more names done in less time.  Ease temple crowding in LDS-dense areas like Utah.  Reduce the burden on parents with kids at home (this has always been the toughest part of doing temple work for me... I hate leaving my kids for five hours to go do one session).  Allow for more sessions during the busiest times (like Friday evenings and Saturdays).

What makes it harder to leave kids when doing temple work is that not only are you gone, but you are unreachable for that time.  So even when your kids are old enough to stay home alone, it's not a typical situation where they can just call if a problem arises.  My oldest of four is 16 and I still don't like to leave my kids home alone and unable to reach either parent to do temple work with my husband.

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2 minutes ago, bluebell said:

What makes it harder to leave kids when doing temple work is that not only are you gone, but you are unreachable for that time.  So even when your kids are old enough to stay home alone, it's not a typical situation where they can just call if a problem arises.  My oldest of four is 16 and I still don't like to leave my kids home alone and unable to reach either parent to do temple work with my husband.

Same situation here (four kids, oldest is 16) and I agree... I'm unreachable for two hours AND we're an hour away if they do happen to reach us right before or right after the session.

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Do you give them the temple number for emergencies?  I would assume they could come find you, though it could be difficult even if told what you plan to do.

I wonder if they let people leave notes at the reception desk saying they will be doing sealings or whatever in case someone calls.

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8 minutes ago, Calm said:

Do you give them the temple number for emergencies?  I would assume they could come find you, though it could be difficult even if told what you plan to do.

I wonder if they let people leave notes at the reception desk saying they will be doing sealings or whatever in case someone calls.

Good thought.  I never asked.  We just count on them being able to rely on friends, family, and neighbors that are nearby.  Since our temple is an hour from our house, we'd need help from someone close to the kids if there was an emergency that required the presence of an adult.

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3 hours ago, Calm said:

Do you give them the temple number for emergencies?  I would assume they could come find you, though it could be difficult even if told what you plan to do.

I wonder if they let people leave notes at the reception desk saying they will be doing sealings or whatever in case someone calls.

If it were known which endowment session you were on (according to starting time) or if you were doing initiatory work or sealings, it would not be too difficult to locate you in the event of an emergency. 

It would be even easier to find an ordained ordinance worker, as one’s shift coordinator would know what he was doing at any moment in the shift. 

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12 hours ago, rockpond said:

Good thought.  I never asked.  We just count on them being able to rely on friends, family, and neighbors that are nearby.  Since our temple is an hour from our house, we'd need help from someone close to the kids if there was an emergency that required the presence of an adult.

Wow, at the time, when my husband and I would go to the temple, in my mind I thought my kids would be protected because we were at the temple. How stupid could I have been, come to think of it. 

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23 hours ago, Calm said:

I think this is an artifact of the cell phone as this relying on others was standard prior to that, imo.  Growing up there were frequent occasions my parents were both unavailable for hours.  Just having one at work where he could be anywhere in a huge complex while the other was out shopping for most of the day happened weekly.  Neither ever left us info on where they intended to be nor did I when I left kids at babysitters or on their own when old enough when I went out while their dad was at work somewhere on the grounds of a university.  The unavailability while out of the home or office was just something that was expected.

It’s a miracle any of us survived those awful pre-cellphone days. I don’t know how we did it.

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I know there's been a lot of discussion on shortening certain ordinances and such, which I have some thoughts on, I would love to see more uses for temples! From all my reading both Kirtland and Nauvoo temple were used as a meeting house, a school, and ordinances. For New Years Day the saints celebrated with dancing and feasting in the Nauvoo Temple and Brigham Young oversaw and participated in the lively (but appropriate) festivities.

They held solemn but powerful feasts in the Celestial Room. The School of the Prophets was organized in the Kirtland temple and was used for the teaching of all manner of righteous learning, both religious and secular. I would love to see libraries full of good books attached to the annex's, feasts, celebrations, and the temples acting as a true and powerful community centers.

I know we have church buildings for this purpose, but the saints also had other buildings (like the masonic hall) to go and celebrate but they chose the temple! They specifically chose the celestial room in Nauvoo to hold feasts and lectures. Maybe to some these things can be fulfilled in ward buildings (and they can be) but I wish that we could have some of these things done in a place that specifically is accepted as "The House of The Lord."

Or maybe I have to much an imagination?

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43 minutes ago, SettingDogStar said:

I know there's been a lot of discussion on shortening certain ordinances and such, which I have some thoughts on, I would love to see more uses for temples! From all my reading both Kirtland and Nauvoo temple were used as a meeting house, a school, and ordinances. For New Years Day the saints celebrated with dancing and feasting in the Nauvoo Temple and Brigham Young oversaw and participated in the lively (but appropriate) festivities.

They held solemn but powerful feasts in the Celestial Room. The School of the Prophets was organized in the Kirtland temple and was used for the teaching of all manner of righteous learning, both religious and secular. I would love to see libraries full of good books attached to the annex's, feasts, celebrations, and the temples acting as a true and powerful community centers.

I know we have church buildings for this purpose, but the saints also had other buildings (like the masonic hall) to go and celebrate but they chose the temple! They specifically chose the celestial room in Nauvoo to hold feasts and lectures. Maybe to some these things can be fulfilled in ward buildings (and they can be) but I wish that we could have some of these things done in a place that specifically is accepted as "The House of The Lord."

Or maybe I have to much an imagination?

I think those are great ideas and the design of the Kirkland temple certainly allowed for multiple uses (I think Nauvoo was similar but I’m not sure).  However, today’s temples don’t have that same flexibility.  Trying to host a meal in the celestial room of the Denver temple would be a nightmare. 

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6 minutes ago, Ginger Snaps said:

Alonzo Gaskill posted on Facebook about changes to the temple ordinances that were rolled out in Nauvoo today (apparently that temple was open today). Of course he doesn’t go into detail, just encourages everyone to get to the temple and see for themselves. Wish I had time to go this week (it’s 2.5 hours away for me). 

I’ve seen other individuals on Facebook confirm that changes have been implemented (without mentioning specifics). 

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3 minutes ago, rockpond said:

I think those are great ideas and the design of the Kirkland temple certainly allowed for multiple uses (I think Nauvoo was similar but I’m not sure).  However, today’s temples don’t have that same flexibility.  Trying to host a meal in the celestial room of the Denver temple would be a nightmare. 

Most early temples have assembly halls in addition to ordinance rooms so true solemn assemblies can be held.

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10 minutes ago, Ginger Snaps said:

Alonzo Gaskill posted on Facebook about changes to the temple ordinances that were rolled out in Nauvoo today (apparently that temple was open today). Of course he doesn’t go into detail, just encourages everyone to get to the temple and see for themselves. Wish I had time to go this week (it’s 2.5 hours away for me). 

But he did say changeS? Like more than one?

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, rockpond said:

I think those are great ideas and the design of the Kirkland temple certainly allowed for multiple uses (I think Nauvoo was similar but I’m not sure).  However, today’s temples don’t have that same flexibility.  Trying to host a meal in the celestial room of the Denver temple would be a nightmare. 

Oh I can only imagine. For as big as the Mesa Temple is the celestial is tiny and not fit for something like a feast. To my recollection the Nauvoo Temple had a near identical (though not exact) layout as the Kirtland Temple with two main assembly rooms and an upper attic with some classrooms and offices. The Independence Temple, at least the Temple for the High Presidency of The Priesthood, was also laid out in an identical way. Of course they varied in size but the structure was the same and I believe the intent and purpose of each were very similar. After Nauvoo the next temples were very much focused on Ordinance work and thus that is what took up the majority of the room. 

I wish the temples could be built with what I've had in mind and what they were used for semi-often in the beginning of the Restoration, with the central/upper rooms reserved for sacred ordinances. With the knowledge that Joseph and the Lord had in mind for the Endowment I wonder what rooms Joseph would have used for giving it? I'm curious if he intended to use the Attic like they ended up doing because it was reported that it was awfully cramped. 

Edited by SettingDogStar

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, juliann said:

But he did say changeS? Like more than one?

Yes, “some changes”. 

ETA: I see Duncan quoted the whole thing above. 

Edited by Ginger Snaps
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1 hour ago, Duncan said:

"Folks, I don't want to distract from my previous post today, nor flood your inbox with posts from me. However, I hope you'll indulge me with one other thing.

Most temples of the Church are not open today, but the Nauvoo temple was. The presiding Brethren have had some changes to the temple ordinances in the works for some time and, in the Nauvoo temple this morning, those were rolled--as they will be in other temples throughout the word (presumably starting tomorrow).

If you are in any way able, I would encourage ALL to attend the temple this week. Participate in each of the ordinances available to you therein; and see the evidence that the prophet--President Russell M. Nelson--is continuing to receive revelation from our Father in Heaven on ALL matters.

The restoration continues! Praise be to God!"

 

straight from the source!

Who is Alonzo Gaskill? I can see he is an associated professor at BYU, but what makes him the "source" of changes in the temple?

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Just now, Rain said:

 

Who is Alonzo Gaskill? I can see he is an associated professor at BYU, but what makes him the "source" of changes in the temple?

It is his account of what he saw there today. He is well known enough that I believe him. This means when the rest of the temples open tomorrow a lot of people will be giving more detail.

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49 minutes ago, Rain said:

 

Who is Alonzo Gaskill? I can see he is an associated professor at BYU, but what makes him the "source" of changes in the temple?

I take it he knew someone who works in the Nauvoo Temple and they emailed him, he took down his post now so I dunno, guess we wait and see

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27 minutes ago, Duncan said:

I take it he knew someone who works in the Nauvoo Temple and they emailed him, he took down his post now so I dunno, guess we wait and see

Hum, I wonder why. Luckily I was able to see it before that was done. But I probably will not every be a part of the new changes in the temple, sorta feel left out, but it is my own doing. 

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3 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Most early temples have assembly halls in addition to ordinance rooms so true solemn assemblies can be held.

The Portland Temple has a lovely Assembly Room that can accommodate several hundred people...

GG

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50 minutes ago, Duncan said:

I take it he knew someone who works in the Nauvoo Temple and they emailed him, he took down his post now so I dunno, guess we wait and see

I wonder why he took down his post. 

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I haven’t posted much for awhile but have been following this thread closely. Praying that the rumored change is true that women will now covenant to God rather than their husband. Also praying that sealings will become equal in that husbands give themselves, not just wives  

I haven’t been to an endowment session in three years because of the existing covenant structure. I know others have ways to deal with the wording but I could not. It’s simply contrary to Gods plan for my marriage (not passing judgment on anyone else’s marriage) and so I could not in good faith participate. I’ve been a TR holder my entire life and still often attend the temple for youth baptisms with my children and in my calling leading the ward youth. 

This has been a huge issue for my family. My wife still attends all temple ceremonies. She greatly misses my presence and struggles to explain to others why I’m not there. My oldest son graduates HS this year and is set to receive his endownment before leaving on a mission this summer. If the rumors are true, this would be a godsend indeed. 

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24 minutes ago, Garden Girl said:

The Portland Temple has a lovely Assembly Room that can accommodate several hundred people...

GG

Oh yes it does! That’s where I was endowed for the first time! All the temples I’ve been in usually have a chapel of some sort in theme. However it’s not quiet used the same as the earlier temples, I don’t remember any dances or feasts being held (unless you count the cafeteria 😂) or school classes haha! Also, if I remember, only members in good standing are allowed in the assembly room at temples. I don’t think that was case in Kirtland or Nauvoo unless there was ordinances being performed. Though I could be wrong!

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